First Class Disappointment on TPE – Chastised For Taking Two Refreshments

[ChrisP99]

I recently had a pretty awful experience while travelling First Class on a TransPennine Express service from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield. After an already stressful day, I was looking forward to a smooth journey, but instead found myself being publicly called out by the First Class host for something I didn’t think was a big deal—taking two small refreshments.

I got on the train and shortly after we departed, the host appeared and offered refreshments. They were just holding a basket out in front of people and not saying anything at all, which was a bit strange but I didn't particulaly mind that. When they got to me, I smiled and said "I'll be cheeky and take two" and took a packet of crisps and a brownie as I hadn't eaten anything at all that day.

The host was cold and said "You should have asked before doing that" and walked away. I was a bit confused but thought nothing of it. When the host came back to ask for drinks, I already had a coffee from somewhere else, so said "no thank you" and was as courteous as I always am with railway staff.

The host turned away, turned back, then got up to my face, in my personal space, raised their voice quite loudly, and said "Next time politely ask if you want two items" and essentially shamed me in a very full carriage for doing so where everyone looked at me.

I’ve never encountered anything like this on a First Class service with a TOC before. Do TPE have some sort of policy of "One refreshment per person"? I was genuinely shocked at the experience and emailed TPE's director inbox, who responded, apologised and said they'd investigate and feed it back (Not directly saying the host was in the wrong I might add), but I am genuinely curious why I got spoke to like that. I get that it's a short route and there isn't going to be silver service, but if it was written down anywhere explicitly that you can't take more than one thing, I wouldn't have done so.

I regularly take XC First Class, and the hosts are practically throwing refreshments at me whenever they are (very rarely) available on the routes I take, so perhaps I was wrong for assuming TPE was as generous, but the way I was spoken to was quite possibly the worst experience I have ever had on the railway and I am still quite upset at the whole thing.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I agree with you. I've no idea if TPE have a formal policy on how many snacks the Hosts should give to First Class passengers, but even if you were only supposed to take one, there certainly wasn't any need to make such a big deal out of it. Certainly not good customer service, which after all is their job.

Also I'd certainly complain if they did indeed get in your personal space/raised their voice at you- I'd say that's inexcusable.

If this member of staff did indeed react so aggressively towards you and it's been caught on CCTV (body language/invading your personal space/aggression) I'd hope that TPE strongly considered if this person should be working in a public facing role.

 

[LowLevel]

Rail Gourmet contract hosts who can be a little hit and miss in my experience. They have some great people and some awful ones.

 

[transportphoto]

Not directly saying the host was in the wrong I might add

They won’t admit this without knowing both sides of the story. They will however talk around the topic along the lines of “we expect the highest standard of…”.

 

[Iskra]

I travel this route fairly often and find the TP hosts to be generally sound. Across many journeys across various TOC’s I have found the odd customer host that has a questionable attitude to the basics of the role, but they could just have been having a bad day in a job that is probably challenging in terms of shift patterns and you don’t know what else they’ve had to deal with that shift. I wouldn’t dwell on it too much, it’s them not you that’s the issue.

 

[Iskra]

Probably also worth mentioning that XC tend to price themselves in a very premium manner, whereas TP fares on that route can be very reasonable so that may explain the difference in service somewhat.

I don’t think TP are doing themselves any favours though by having such a diverse range of first class offerings across different train types, routes and time of day. It’s confusing for customers.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I don’t think TP are doing themselves any favours though by having such a diverse range of first class offerings across different train types, routes and time of day. It’s confusing for customers.

Coincidentally after I read the OP's post on this thread, I looked on the TPE website to see what they offer on the Cleethorpes trains. I noticed they've greatly improved the food offer on their trains to/from Newcastle, with a very similar menu to what is offered on the West Coast.

I guess it would be very costly for TPE to make changes to the layout of First Class on their 185s to install say as a minimum a microwave or some sort of oven which Avanti had on their Super Voyagers, to enable them to offer hot food to First Class passengers.
(I personally find First Class on 185s to be very comfortable, all be it small capacity.)

 

[Iskra]

Coincidentally after I read the OP's post on this thread, I looked on the TPE website to see what they offer on the Cleethorpes trains. I noticed they've greatly improved the food offer on their trains to/from Newcastle, with a very similar menu to what is offered on the West Coast.

I guess it would be very costly for TPE to make changes to the layout of First Class on their 185s to install say as a minimum a microwave or some sort of oven which Avanti had on their Super Voyagers, to enable them to offer hot food to First Class passengers.
(I personally find First Class on 185s to be very comfortable, all be it small capacity.)

It is possible that at the time the First Class offering improvement elsewhere was agreed, that TP expected to be using 68’s and Mk5’s on this route so they could have offered more options if that had worked out.

I agree the 185’s first class compartment is very comfortable and I like it apart from it being a thoroughfare to reach the toilets.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It is possible that at the time the First Class offering improvement elsewhere was agreed, that TP expected to be using 68’s and Mk5’s on this route so they could have offered more options if that had worked out.

I agree the 185’s first class compartment is very comfortable and I like it apart from it being a thoroughfare to reach the toilets.

Good point- I never thought about the Mk5s.

 

[ChrisP99]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

I agree that this is a one-off, I usually find TPE to be very good on this route, I was just surprised that it was the fact of me taking two things that caused the host to fly off the handle rather than me saying something that would have made their life difficult. They seemed to have to do something on their PDA afterwards which makes me think they must record what was taken and what wasn’t, not entirely sure?

I personally find First Class on 185s to be very comfortable, all be it small capacity.

Yes the space was cramped for the host too, and they only had a trolley with a tiny preparation area in the corner

I may have to start commuting to Manchester once a week depending on my job prospects and I’m sure I will have far better experiences.

 

[greyman42]

The host turned away, turned back, then got up to my face, in my personal space, raised their voice quite loudly, and said "Next time politely ask if you want two items" and essentially shamed me in a very full carriage for doing so where everyone looked at me.

Horrible person, you would think it was coming out of their own pocket.

 

[Ianigsy]

It’s the inconsistency which is annoying. Travelling Leeds to Liverpool with a Seatfrog upgrade on Thursday, I was encouraged by the bottles of water laid out on the tables, except that on mine there was a used glass and empty can of G&T. As the train was quiet, I helped myself to a water from an empty table and was offered a snack from the basket once the attendant returned from standard class.

On the same train and the same route, I’ve had a panini and a couple of cans of beer.

 

[Foxcover]

On the West Coast this week in TPE 1st class, the hosts weren’t restrictive at all - I think they and everyone were just glad to be getting home after the various disruptions!

 

[gray1404]

I recently had a pretty awful experience while travelling First Class on a TransPennine Express service from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield. After an already stressful day, I was looking forward to a smooth journey, but instead found myself being publicly called out by the First Class host for something I didn’t think was a big deal—taking two small refreshments.

I got on the train and shortly after we departed, the host appeared and offered refreshments. They were just holding a basket out in front of people and not saying anything at all, which was a bit strange but I didn't particulaly mind that. When they got to me, I smiled and said "I'll be cheeky and take two" and took a packet of crisps and a brownie as I hadn't eaten anything at all that day.

The host was cold and said "You should have asked before doing that" and walked away. I was a bit confused but thought nothing of it. When the host came back to ask for drinks, I already had a coffee from somewhere else, so said "no thank you" and was as courteous as I always am with railway staff.

The host turned away, turned back, then got up to my face, in my personal space, raised their voice quite loudly, and said "Next time politely ask if you want two items" and essentially shamed me in a very full carriage for doing so where everyone looked at me.

I’ve never encountered anything like this on a First Class service with a TOC before. Do TPE have some sort of policy of "One refreshment per person"? I was genuinely shocked at the experience and emailed TPE's director inbox, who responded, apologised and said they'd investigate and feed it back (Not directly saying the host was in the wrong I might add), but I am genuinely curious why I got spoke to like that. I get that it's a short route and there isn't going to be silver service, but if it was written down anywhere explicitly that you can't take more than one thing, I wouldn't have done so.

I regularly take XC First Class, and the hosts are practically throwing refreshments at me whenever they are (very rarely) available on the routes I take, so perhaps I was wrong for assuming TPE was as generous, but the way I was spoken to was quite possibly the worst experience I have ever had on the railway and I am still quite upset at the whole thing.

At the very least this needs feeding back to TPE and for them to provide assurances customers are not treated in this way again.

 

[AverageJoe]

Seems a little off behaviour from host that from my experience are generally friendly.

I have seen a mix of those who seem to love their job and those who don’t when it comes to the hosts.

Although I agree that he was rude and not particularly professional you yourself do admit that you were in your words “a little bit cheeky” so it probably would have gone in your favour to ask if it’s ok to have 2 snacks.

Rail gourmet have recently been involved in strikes so maybe there is some bad feeling at work, although this should never be to the detriment of the customer when they are on duty.

 

[ChrisP99]

To be honest, I was sort of joking when I said that because like I said above for every other operator I travelled with, it wasn't particularly something you'd have to ask for. The likes of AWC let you take as much as you want in their lounges (not that I go crazy, but I certainly don't take one individual thing) and their trains are the same with being offered refreshments, but I am aware they have in-house First Class and most likely had a much higher budget for all this when First ran both AWC and TPE, and COVID onwards I assume the DfT paid them far higher management fees.

Perhaps it's because it is outsourced to RG specifically (and also DfT operated), TPE tell them it is one per customer because of extra costs? It would be a shame if so but that's the only reason why I can think the host took so much offence, because even if I was stressed, I don't know why the action caused them to get angry. If I spilt a drink everywhere I could maybe understand, but I didn't do anything to provoke such a reaction...

I wasn't even aware Rail Gourmet were striking but I have found the RMT post about it and it is sad that there appears to be bullying and harassment issues if they were asking for refresher training on the matter from management.

 

[AverageJoe]

To be honest, I was sort of joking when I said that because like I said above for every other operator I travelled with, it wasn't particularly something you'd have to ask for. The likes of AWC let you take as much as you want in their lounges (not that I go crazy, but I certainly don't take one individual thing) and their trains are the same with being offered refreshments, but I am aware they have in-house First Class and most likely had a much higher budget for all this when First ran both AWC and TPE, and COVID onwards I assume the DfT paid them far higher management fees.

Perhaps it's because it is outsourced to RG specifically (and also DfT operated), TPE tell them it is one per customer because of extra costs? It would be a shame if so but that's the only reason why I can think the host took so much offence, because even if I was stressed, I don't know why the action caused them to get angry. If I spilt a drink everywhere I could maybe understand, but I didn't do anything to provoke such a reaction...

I wasn't even aware Rail Gourmet were striking but I have found the RMT post about it and it is sad that there appears to be bullying and harassment issues if they were asking for refresher training on the matter from management.

I’m not siding with the host by the way. I think you have a right to be upset.

Me personally, I would still have asked. It is possible that if he was coming to the end of his shift he was running low on snacks so needed to make sure he had some left for other passengers that will join the service.

Don’t quote me on that but that’s one of the reasons behind why I would ask if it’s ok.

I’ve flown business class in the past and even though it cost thousands I would always ask before I would take 2 items from the snacks being handed out.

I do understand your experience with XC has been the opposite of that though so I can understand why you thought nothing of it on the TPE service.

 

[sleepinghobby]

Initially, I thought this was incredibly unprofessional and unbecoming of a customer facing railway person's role, however, after some thought I think I the host has achieved what they set out to do - anyone witnessing this event who had a strong reaction to it will now think twice before helping themselves to things they haven't asked for. Perhaps, in a past encounter, the host had to deal with someone displaying entitled behaviour over something where the stakes were much higher and upon reflection, they decided the least worst active measure they could undertake would be to public embarrass the offender. Suppose, everyone else seeing OP get away with it decided they wanted to abuse the amount of refreshments they could take and their plan would beto point out person X (OP), or Y or Z got away with it if confronted. You see instances of this on viral internet clips from Halloween in America.
There's no doubt that the host's behaviour was rude but perhaps they wanted to do something 'active' and this was the least worst thing they could do.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s the inconsistency which is annoying.

Which is a direct consequence of the fact that TPE don’t have a dedicated first class host. They’ll usually be away for half the journey with the standard class trolley, especially on the 802s. There’s been quite a few times on the Newcastle-Liverpool route where I simply won’t see them between departing from York and arriving at Manchester Victoria. It’s not really good enough but it’s not their fault, it’s TPE’s.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Initially, I thought this was incredibly unprofessional and unbecoming of a customer facing railway person's role, however, after some thought I think I the host has achieved what they set out to do - anyone witnessing this event who had a strong reaction to it will now think twice before helping themselves to things they haven't asked for.

To be honest, I’d just assume the host is a prat. Because they are.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Once it is done it is done. The time to say it is at the beginning: “sorry, sir, it is only one item each”. The first comment, probably fair enough. But returning it to again a while later? Nah. Prattish behaviour from the host.

 

[800Travel]

To me, it sounds like this could have been avoided by the host saying 'Hello sir [sir optional], would you like to choose a snack from the basket?' rather than just standing there silently. And then if the customer wanted 2, 'Thank you, is it at all possible I could also take a [X] please?' would likely follow. Sets out expectations from the start regarding the number customers can take, and allows customers to take more than 1 if requested depending on the first class host's response, which can be tailored based on stock, where the train is in the journey, number of passengers etc.

 

[yorkie]

To me, it sounds like this could have been avoided by the host saying 'Hello sir [sir optional], would you like to choose a snack from the basket?' rather than just standing there silently...

Quite!

Unfortunately, while most FC hosts are sound, there are some who aren't really suitable for customer-facing roles; there are insufficient safeguards in place at train companies such as TPE, and various others, to ensure that all customer-facing staff are suitable for such roles.

Some people just don't really understand how to behave and treat others.

There's no doubt that the host's behaviour was rude but perhaps they wanted to do something 'active' and this was the least worst thing they could do.

If the host believes that such behaviour is not rude, and is the best they can do, then they simply aren't a 'people person' and aren't suitable for the role.

I'm in the position of giving out items such as biscuts, cookies etc to people on a weekly basis, in one of the many roles that I do, and I know that you simply cannot behave in such a way. Anyone who thinks it is acceptable needs to be doing a different job, it's as simple as that.

I can remember at an after school club I attended as a kid (up to Year 6), the lady running it was very strict with handing out of biscuts and used to shame any child who was deemed to have done something wrong. One of the lessons I learnt from her behaviour was not to act that way, if I was ever in such a position myself...

 

[The_Train]

Is a packet of crisps and a brownie too much for someone paying a premium price for an upgraded product? It's bad enough that a few long distance TOCs think snack type items are acceptable for a 1st class product but then to be abused by a staff member for daring to take 2 items from the pitiful selection, just adds salt to the wound

 

[duffield]

That's pretty extraordinary. A lot of 1st hosts I've encountered on various operators even nudge people to take more than one item if they want, and it's not even as if it was two of the same item; crisps and a sweet item are quite different and I would have thought most people would *expect* to be able to have both a small savoury and sweet item rather than just one or the other.

 

[bramling]

Initially, I thought this was incredibly unprofessional and unbecoming of a customer facing railway person's role, however, after some thought I think I the host has achieved what they set out to do - anyone witnessing this event who had a strong reaction to it will now think twice before helping themselves to things they haven't asked for. Perhaps, in a past encounter, the host had to deal with someone displaying entitled behaviour over something where the stakes were much higher and upon reflection, they decided the least worst active measure they could undertake would be to public embarrass the offender. Suppose, everyone else seeing OP get away with it decided they wanted to abuse the amount of refreshments they could take and their plan would beto point out person X (OP), or Y or Z got away with it if confronted. You see instances of this on viral internet clips from Halloween in America.
There's no doubt that the host's behaviour was rude but perhaps they wanted to do something 'active' and this was the least worst thing they could do.

I think most people would assume that, having paid for first class, they’re within the realms of being reasonable to pick what they want.

If this isn’t allowed for whatever reason then there were much better ways the member of staff could have handled the situation.

 

[Iskra]

I think most people would assume that, having paid for first class, they’re within the realms of being reasonable to pick what they want.

If this isn’t allowed for whatever reason then there were much better ways the member of staff could have handled the situation.

The simplest and most diplomatic solution would be just to put that snack as having been consumed by another customer who actually declined a snack, if it is really that important.

 

[yorksrob]

Initially, I thought this was incredibly unprofessional and unbecoming of a customer facing railway person's role, however, after some thought I think I the host has achieved what they set out to do - anyone witnessing this event who had a strong reaction to it will now think twice before helping themselves to things they haven't asked for.

Or more likely think twice about shelling out for first class.

It's really not a good look commercially.

 

[aar0]

A lot of 1st hosts I've encountered on various operators even nudge people to take more than one item if they want

My one TPE 1st class experience a week ago the host said essentially go wild at the biscuit tray!

 

[nanstallon]

Initially, I thought this was incredibly unprofessional and unbecoming of a customer facing railway person's role, however, after some thought I think I the host has achieved what they set out to do - anyone witnessing this event who had a strong reaction to it will now think twice before helping themselves to things they haven't asked for. Perhaps, in a past encounter, the host had to deal with someone displaying entitled behaviour over something where the stakes were much higher and upon reflection, they decided the least worst active measure they could undertake would be to public embarrass the offender. Suppose, everyone else seeing OP get away with it decided they wanted to abuse the amount of refreshments they could take and their plan would beto point out person X (OP), or Y or Z got away with it if confronted. You see instances of this on viral internet clips from Halloween in America.
There's no doubt that the host's behaviour was rude but perhaps they wanted to do something 'active' and this was the least worst thing they could do.

Perhaps if the host had thumped the customer, it would have made the point even more effectively! Let's not make excuses for petty and aggressive behaviour. But hey, sorry - on the railway the customer is always wrong.