First Class declassified with a First Class Season (NRCoT 15.6/31.2)

[purple-Azumas]

I hold a weekly First Class Leamington Spa to Preston Season Ticket (£394.70, https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=LMS&dest=PRE&tkt=7DF) and was planning to travel on today's 17:19 Wolverhampton (WVH) to Manchester Piccadilly (MAN).

CrossCountry cancelled that one so I caught the 17:49 instead. We had a 4 Car voyager which was (unsurprisingly) mobbed and so the TM declassified First Class and told us to write in to claim back the difference in fare.

From a quick glance of the NRCoT, I assume it's Condition 15.6 which covers this case:

If you hold a first class Ticket and the first class accommodation on your train service has been declassified or you are unable to sit in it for all or part of your journey because it is full, you will be entitled to a refund as set out in Condition 31.

Condition 31.1 deals with 'regular' First Class tickets but 31.2 is relevant for season tickets and says, in a fluffy way

If you hold a first class Season Ticket, the minimum to which you will be entitled will be a refund of the difference between the first class and standard class fare for the journey concerned.

My question, I suppose, is what is the 'standard class fare for the journey concerned'? I assume the intention is to take my weekly season ticket and the equivalent standard class season, divide them both by 10 and take the difference. However, the only references to dividing by 10 for a weekly season seem to be in each TOC's Passenger Chargers with respect to Delay Repay, which this is not. Could I advance and argument, therefore, that the notional loss is £75.80 - calculated as the difference between a First Anytime Single (£118.60 for WVH - MAN) and the Off-Peak Single (£42.80 for WVH - MAN)?

In my eyes this would be taking the mick quite substantially with regards to the actual discomfort caused, and I'd have to have a think about how comfortable I am morally to claim all that back, but I'd appreciate others opinions on what the strict minimum (as per the Conditions of Travel) to claim is.

Thanks for any insight!

 

[CyrusWuff]

If you were doing the opposite (i.e. upgrading to First with a Standard Season Ticket), you'd usually be charged the difference between the two Anytime Single fares for the journey you were making, so I'd suggest the same should apply here.

That being the case, the First Class Anytime Single between Wolverhampton and Manchester is £118.60 (incidentally dearer than the First Class Off-Peak Return, but there's no First Class Off-Peak Single) and the Anytime Single is £51.00, for a difference of £67.60.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In my eyes this would be taking the mick quite substantially with regards to the actual discomfort caused, and I'd have to have a think about how comfortable I am morally to claim all that back

If you feel the amount refunded in line with the rules is morally excessive, then I would suggest keeping what you consider appropriate, and donating the surplus to a charity.

 

[purple-Azumas]

If you were doing the opposite (i.e. upgrading to First with a Standard Season Ticket), you'd usually be charged the difference between the two Anytime Single fares for the journey you were making, so I'd suggest the same should apply here.

Thank you, hadn't thought of that at all. Could they try and say that the upgrade required would be the normal Weekend 1st upgrade (£10 here)? Of course it wouldn't be offered if 1st is full but wonder if XC consider that the 'value' of the upgrade.

If you feel the amount refunded in line with the rules is morally excessive, then I would suggest keeping what you consider appropriate, and donating the surplus to a charity

Yes, absolutely!