First class advance ticket clarification needed

[isdoo]

Hi,

We have two tickets booked to go from Lancashire to Essex in first class advanced.

We plan to get the reserved train from MAN to EUS on Virgin, so no change there.

However the two linking trains not really suitable - the first one leaves us with just 10 minutes at MAN, so no allowing for a delayed train and the one to Essex gives us a lot of hanging around at the london station waiting for 'our' train.

Two questions therefore.....

1) Any issues in getting earlier trains on both connecting services.

2) if we get the train before it has a first class carriage - can we use that? (our booked train is not first class).

re 2) we could go even earlier and get a non-first class train.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[yorkie]

However the two linking trains not really suitable - the first one leaves us with just 10 minutes at MAN, ....

I agree that if you wish to minimise the risk of a delay, and reduce the risk to Northern* of having to pay you delay compensation, you are able to get an earlier train...

1) Any issues in getting earlier trains on both connecting services.

The conditions allow you to take "appropriate connecting trains", but for a comprehensive answer regarding what the rail industry's view on this matter is, see the Advance tickets section in our Fares Guide.

2) if we get the train before it has a first class carriage - can we use that? (our booked train is not first class).

You have a First Class ticket, so it's valid in First Class.

However the rail industry takes the view that if a train is "reservable" then you shouldn't be on it, if you don't have a reservation for it. That's not quite in the T&Cs though, and Trans Pennine Express* (TPE) have a much more relaxed view on this matter.

(* These are example operators that are likely, but your actual journey may involve different operators)

 

[isdoo]

Thanks. How can one tell if the train is reservable?

 

[Coolzac]

It depends on what it says on the ticket. If you have an advance ticket for that leg specifying a time on the ticket, then you must get on that train. However, if all you have is the ticket with your start and end stations and the Manchester-Euston reservation then it will be fine.

If it is fine and you are buying a 1st class advance fare, then you may sit in 1st class.

 

[isdoo]

It depends on what it says on the ticket. However, if all you have is the ticket with your start and end stations and the Manchester-Euston reservation then it will be fine.

If it is fine and you are buying a 1st class advance fare, then you may sit in 1st class.

Yes - that is what we have start and end stations with the reservation for the manchester to Euston.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks. How can one tell if the train is reservable?

It depends on your definition of reservable.

The interpretation the rail industry would probably like us to have, is any train that has the reservation symbol displayed in timetables and (most) journey planners. However, in true railway industry style, many of those trains are, in fact, not actually reservable in any meaningful sense in that you can't actually reserve a seat.

(Yes, I know this is bonkers, and in reality it'll probably all be fine, especially as it sounds like you may be considering travelling on a TPE service?)

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

By the way this topic crops up at least once a month. There are many existing threads, here's a an example of one that's quite good, including this view, which I concur with:

It is sometimes stated on this forum that an "& connections" element of an an Advance ticket which does not come with a specific reservation can only be travelled on an 'unreservable' service. I'm not aware of any foundation to this belief, and in practice, I have disregarded it when travelling.No. In my opinion, if the route and time is appropriate, the journey should be valid.

Notice should be taken of any itinery that is provided at the time of booking, as that route and time should be taken as evidence of an acceptable train in terms of 'appropriate'. Anyone considering pushing the boundaries of 'appropriate' can always ask before boarding, and, in my opinion are unlikely to be refused. That includes travelling on 'reservable' services.

 

[isdoo]

Thanks - looking on northern rail it says it is 'reservable', but going to book a ticket it says it is free but optional.

So I assume we wil be okay.

Sorry, to be cautious - but hate 'breakig the rules'. LOL