First Berkshire & Thames Valley

[RELL6L]

This M40/X74 is a very interesting development!

On Slough to Uxbridge, is this supposed to add to the mix or to replace the existing service 3? The 3 is timed at Slough, arrive and depart, at the same times as the new X74 shows, arrive 04/05 and 34/35, depart 05 and 35. The existing 3 interworks with the 8. But the new X74 is quite a lot quicker, much more like the old London Country 457 than the 458 for those with long memories. The timing is 24/25 minutes each way, up to 15 minutes quicker than the 3. Is this just upping the ante with silly competition or trying to be even faster? There cannot possibly be the demand for 6 buses per hour between Uxbridge and Slough!

Then a new service from Uxbridge to High Wycombe via the motorway. carousel already have the 102 but this runs via the A40 and takes around 55-60 minutes. The First M40 is to take 36. Have they suddenly discovered a massive untapped demand for a High Wycombe to Uxbridge link? Is it perhaps aimed at students at Bucks New University? At the moment there is a free shuttle between the campuses at Wycombe and Uxbridge - is this to replace it? It is nothing like as frequent though. The M40 doesn't look to have a stop near the university but maybe the existing stops are close enough. Is there sufficient demand? Or a Bucks New University subsidy?

Then we come to Artificial Stupidity again. The M40 and X74 are scheduled to run every 30 minutes and basically have no journey time variation at all, 36 minutes Wycombe to Uxbridge first bus to last, 25 minutes Slough to Uxbridge from first bus to last. They are new routes so presumably have no journey time history to feed into an AI model. But hang on, the existing X74 comes into High Wycombe the same way from Loudwater. Here the journey time data has given variations even on the new timetable, between 15 and 21 minutes from Loudwater to High Wycombe. But the M40 is a flat 16 minutes every journey - on the exact same route with the exact same stops. Madness!

First Berkshire are no doubt financially underpinned by Heathrow and the Railair shuttle. But this will surely be a money pit and I can't believe it will last. Will it force Carousel off Wycombe to Uxbridge? No. Off Slough to Uxbridge? Maybe - I don't know how successful it has been so far.

 

[Goldfish62]

First Berkshire are no doubt financially underpinned by Heathrow and the Railair shuttle. But this will surely be a money pit and I can't believe it will last. Will it force Carousel off Wycombe to Uxbridge? No. Off Slough to Uxbridge? Maybe - I don't know how successful it has been so far.

I know it's a crude measure but looking at the respective latest sets of accounts on Companies House, First Berkshire appears to be in the stronger position, having made a 6% pre-tax profit, while Carousel has made a 12% loss. Both receive some funding from Heathrow.

 

[Mark L]

I know it's a crude measure but looking at the respective latest sets of accounts on Companies House, First Berkshire appears to be in the stronger position, having made a 6% pre-tax profit, while Carousel has made a 12% loss. Both receive some funding from Heathrow.

It's almost impossible to establish how much Heathrow actually provides to support bus services. It doesn't publish a figure anywhere and extracting it from an operator's accounts is well nigh impossible. Unless it's bundled up in the high level turnover figure the only line in First Beeline's latest accounts that looks like it might relate to this is described as "miscellaneous turnover" of £264,000. By comparison BSOG+ is shown as £988,000. Carousel's accounts show contract revenue (which could relate to council contracts) of £3,962,000 and other revenue (which may cover any support from Heathorw) of £114,000.

 

[AlastairFraser]

This M40/X74 is a very interesting development!

On Slough to Uxbridge, is this supposed to add to the mix or to replace the existing service 3? The 3 is timed at Slough, arrive and depart, at the same times as the new X74 shows, arrive 04/05 and 34/35, depart 05 and 35. The existing 3 interworks with the 8. But the new X74 is quite a lot quicker, much more like the old London Country 457 than the 458 for those with long memories. The timing is 24/25 minutes each way, up to 15 minutes quicker than the 3. Is this just upping the ante with silly competition or trying to be even faster? There cannot possibly be the demand for 6 buses per hour between Uxbridge and Slough!

Then a new service from Uxbridge to High Wycombe via the motorway. carousel already have the 102 but this runs via the A40 and takes around 55-60 minutes. The First M40 is to take 36. Have they suddenly discovered a massive untapped demand for a High Wycombe to Uxbridge link? Is it perhaps aimed at students at Bucks New University? At the moment there is a free shuttle between the campuses at Wycombe and Uxbridge - is this to replace it? It is nothing like as frequent though. The M40 doesn't look to have a stop near the university but maybe the existing stops are close enough. Is there sufficient demand? Or a Bucks New University subsidy?

Then we come to Artificial Stupidity again. The M40 and X74 are scheduled to run every 30 minutes and basically have no journey time variation at all, 36 minutes Wycombe to Uxbridge first bus to last, 25 minutes Slough to Uxbridge from first bus to last. They are new routes so presumably have no journey time history to feed into an AI model. But hang on, the existing X74 comes into High Wycombe the same way from Loudwater. Here the journey time data has given variations even on the new timetable, between 15 and 21 minutes from Loudwater to High Wycombe. But the M40 is a flat 16 minutes every journey - on the exact same route with the exact same stops. Madness!

First Berkshire are no doubt financially underpinned by Heathrow and the Railair shuttle. But this will surely be a money pit and I can't believe it will last. Will it force Carousel off Wycombe to Uxbridge? No. Off Slough to Uxbridge? Maybe - I don't know how successful it has been so far.

Uxbridge to High Wycombe is a link that definitely needs providing, but I'm not sure it qualifies for an express service, because there is an easy option to catch a local bus to a Chiltern station and catching the train into HW (perhaps they think they can compete on price for students).
This mostly seems to be a response to Carousel's new route Slough to Uxbridge, otherwise the logical route to spend money and limited resources on would be an express High Wycombe - Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service. That's a corridor with no effective public transport option which is competitive in terms of journey time with driving and it's relatively conveniently located for First's depot in Slough.

 

[Mark L]

Uxbridge to High Wycombe is a link that definitely needs providing, but I'm not sure it qualifies for an express service, because there is an easy option to catch a local bus to a Chiltern station and catching the train into HW (perhaps they think they can compete on price for students).
This mostly seems to be a response to Carousel's new route Slough to Uxbridge, otherwise the logical route to spend money and limited resources on would be an express High Wycombe - Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service. That's a corridor with no effective public transport option which is competitive in terms of journey time with driving and it's relatively conveniently located for First's depot in Slough.

The economics of the M40 seem to depend entirely on it picking up enough passengers between High Wycombe and Loudwater to make it worth going to Uxbridge. Although the 102 takes a detour via Beaconsfield New Town it's still a relatviely fast run and the ambience of an E400 (even a 12 year old one) will proably be better than one of First's Streetlites of similar vintage (and with a slightly better chance of not breaking down en-route).

I do have a vague recollection of a Wycombe - Maidenhead -LHR service although whether it was just a proposal/wishful thinking/kite flying exercise that never got off the ground I couldn’t say.

I get the impression that there is no real desire to create new links. Simply duplicating an existing route minimises the risk of adverse publicity when the service is withdrawn as you can simply point passengers to a ready alternative operated by your friends (much as Carousel did recently…).

 

[markymark2000]

Uxbridge to High Wycombe is a link that definitely needs providing, but I'm not sure it qualifies for an express service, because there is an easy option to catch a local bus to a Chiltern station and catching the train into HW (perhaps they think they can compete on price for students).

'catching a bus to a Chiltern Station then catching the train'.... Are you sure that is something that anyone is going to do? That would involve a bus to West Ruislip then waiting for the 2 hourly train. The alternative would be bus to Gerrards Cross then train, but if you are already on the bus, you might as well get the direct bus and save money and effort (And probably time).

This mostly seems to be a response to Carousel's new route Slough to Uxbridge, otherwise the logical route to spend money and limited resources on would be an express High Wycombe - Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service. That's a corridor with no effective public transport option which is competitive in terms of journey time with driving and it's relatively conveniently located for First's depot in Slough.

There were plans for a Maidenhead to Heathrow coach pre Covid if I remember rightly but the idea got scrapped.

 

[Mark L]

There were plans for a Maidenhead to Heathrow coach pre Covid if I remember rightly but the idea got scrapped.

Further to this, and my own earlier post, I have found this https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/ne...-thanks-carousel-heathrow-oxford-bus-company/

A bit more rooting around suggests that it would have used some of the vehicles released by the withdrawal of COMS Oxford - London service.

It was due to start in 29 March 2020 but, as you note, circumstances somewhat overtook it!

 

[markymark2000]

Further to this, and my own earlier post, I have found this https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/ne...-thanks-carousel-heathrow-oxford-bus-company/

A bit more rooting around suggests that it would have used some of the vehicles released by the withdrawal of COMS Oxford - London service.

It was due to start in 29 March 2020 but, as you note, circumstances somewhat overtook it!

Thank you for that. I was writing my post as you posted and the page didn't refresh so sorry if it seemed like I was repeating what you were saying.

 

[AlastairFraser]

'catching a bus to a Chiltern Station then catching the train'.... Are you sure that is something that anyone is going to do? That would involve a bus to West Ruislip then waiting for the 2 hourly train. The alternative would be bus to Gerrards Cross then train, but if you are already on the bus, you might as well get the direct bus and save money and effort (And probably time).

Some people will do that if they're making the whole journey Uxbridge to HW, it's still quicker changing at Gerrards Cross and don't forget Denham has trains to HW too.
You could save at least 30 mins over the existing bus journey time with the bus to Denham + Chiltern combo, or via Gerrards Cross if the connection is better.

There were plans for a Maidenhead to Heathrow coach pre Covid if I remember rightly but the idea got scrapped.

I remember it being mentioned on the forum, think it started just before Covid and lockdown destroyed its chances of success. First should reevaluate viability now that life has returned to some form of normality.

Further to this, and my own earlier post, I have found this https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/ne...-thanks-carousel-heathrow-oxford-bus-company/

A bit more rooting around suggests that it would have used some of the vehicles released by the withdrawal of COMS Oxford - London service.

It was due to start in 29 March 2020 but, as you note, circumstances somewhat overtook it!

Ah, it was Carousel.
Yep, First should definitely have a look at this route - it provides links that need filling and it would be very competitive with driving time.
Not to mention the links at High Wycombe Coachway to Oxford and Gatwick, which could be served by the route for people coming from suburban parts of Maidenhead and Slough (plus a stop at the northern Marlow A404 junction if the timetable allowed it).

 

[Mark L]

Thank you for that. I was writing my post as you posted and the page didn't refresh so sorry if it seemed like I was repeating what you were saying.

No need to apologise - I’ve done the same in the past. I could, of course, assert that it proves great minds think alike! I have also found a link to the application for an LSP for the route bus, as it’s broken, decided it wasn’t worth posting! Picking up on the latest posting by @AlastairFraser it would appear that it was to have been run by City of Oxford but there were suggestions that the vehicles might have been based in High Wycombe.

 

[Flange Squeal]

This mostly seems to be a response to Carousel's new route Slough to Uxbridge, otherwise the logical route to spend money and limited resources on would be an express High Wycombe - Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service. That's a corridor with no effective public transport option which is competitive in terms of journey time with driving and it's relatively conveniently located for First's depot in Slough.

Given Thames Valley launched their Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service in June 2025 and First withdrew their existing Maidenhead to Slough link just six months later in December, I can’t imagine them being in any rush to return to Maidenhead. Competition on that section appears to have scared them off rather than fight!

 

[Mark L]

Given Thames Valley launched their Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service in June 2025 and First withdrew their existing Maidenhead to Slough link just six months later in December, I can’t imagine them being in any rush to return to Maidenhead. Competition on that section appears to have scared them off rather than fight!

In the days of the “old” Thames Valley the Maidenhead - Slough corridor (with multiple routes) must have been one of, if not the, most profitable. The fact that First Beeline (as heir to the legacy even if it does now only operate from a former London Country garage) has pulled off entirely speaks volumes.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Given Thames Valley launched their Maidenhead - Slough - Heathrow service in June 2025 and First withdrew their existing Maidenhead to Slough link just six months later in December, I can’t imagine them being in any rush to return to Maidenhead. Competition on that section appears to have scared them off rather than fight!

True. It's just a shame that they won't use available resources on a route that is worth the investment.

 

[nick291]

Rode the 3 between Slough and Uxbridge on Tuesday(27th Jan 2026) and thought it was a nice route. Bit of a pinch point exiting Iver though with a Spanish lorry coming the other way, but the driver reacted swiftly and promptly. Could even use tap on tap off which still hasn't been implemented at other regions of First.

 

[Whiteway215]

What vehicles would they use on the M40 I wonder ?

 

[Mark L]

What vehicles would they use on the M40 I wonder ?

At a guess it’ll be more Streetlites. The LSP application states it’s single deckers.

 

[wiltshirebloke]

A good write up of the new M40 and extended X74 trips just published on BusAndTrainUser today

The competitive knock about between bus companies in the Home Counties ratcheted up another notch yesterday when First Bus launched a swipe against Carousel in the shape of two new express routes linking Uxbridge with High Wycombe and Slough.

The first runs direct between Uxbridge and High Wycombe via the M40 and is itself appropriately numbered M40 while the second is an extension to the already fast X74 between High Wycombe and Slough which now continues to Uxbridge

These two new services follow Carousel’s launch of its competitive route 458 to First’s route 3 between Uxbridge and Slough at the beginning of January which in turn followed First Bus turning up the heat last November with an increased frequency to Wexham Park Hospital as well as a newly numbered route 7X alongside its 7 giving a 15 minute frequency between Britwell, Slough and Langley then either Heathrow Central or Terminal 5 after which Carousel stepped in with alternate journeys on its newly diverted route 103 to Langley’s Axis Park instead of Windsor in January.

The write-up describes both journeys sampled on it's first day, the competition arising between the local companies, and hopes and fears for the future of these services, between both competing companies and internal services.

It also features the initial confusion between the recently imported 'Kernow' deckers from First Cornwall, now residing with Beeline, and the issue that their previous branding and liveries are still present (no surprise there as Solent vehicles are still running around the Slough area after many months of their particular move) - The issue being with the Green Kernow buses closely resembling Carousel’s Flightline livery !