First attempt failed.

[theageofthetra]

On the assessment I did with another TOC 14 started plus 2 others who were only doing half the tests. Only 4 were left at the end including myself. That suggests the tests are still hard for some.

 

[Quickthorn]

[...]

I am just wondering what sort of a drivers pool we will end up with to be fair. Over the last year the SPAD's have increased and I just wonder is this is anything to do with the current recruitment process.

[...]

Could you explain a little more? I thought SPADs were generally lower now. Looking at RSSB reports on cat A SPADs, it seems that moving annual totals were lower than the previous year for every quarter in 2012/13. In 2011/12, they were lower than the previous year in three out of four quarters.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SPR/REPORTS/Pages/default.aspx#SPAD

Also, from the latest RSSB report

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SPR/REPORTS/Documents/2012-13-Q4-SPAD-TPWS-Report.pdf

there is a chart on page 17 that doesn't seem to support the view that drivers who have recently entered the pool are more prone to SPADs compared to the old hands. If anything, it says that the opposite is true.

 

[TDK]

Could you explain a little more? I thought SPADs were generally lower now. Looking at RSSB reports on cat A SPADs, it seems that moving annual totals were lower than the previous year for every quarter in 2012/13. In 2011/12, they were lower than the previous year in three out of four quarters.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SPR/REPORTS/Pages/default.aspx#SPAD

Also, from the latest RSSB report

http://www.rssb.co.uk/SPR/REPORTS/Documents/2012-13-Q4-SPAD-TPWS-Report.pdf

there is a chart on page 17 that doesn't seem to support the view that drivers who have recently entered the pool are more prone to SPADs compared to the old hands. If anything, it says that the opposite is true.
View attachment 15875

They are up over the last 3 months statistically and up statistically with PQ drivers. It was a tongue in cheek comment however, you need to have access to opsweb for up to date info. However over the last 10 years SPADS have reduced quite considerably. To get a realistic figure you need the last 3 years average or an average since the test practice material was available and to be honest this info is not available currently. Only monthly running totals. If you take operational incidents it is usually driver with 2 - 4 years experience that are on top and this is down to complacency. You also need to consider that the psychometric tests have only been use for about 15 years I think. The main concern is trainees getting the jobs when they are not competent to because of using the practice material available where some people going for the jobs who have not practiced getting borderline passes and missing out.

SPADs during March
There were 21 SPADs during March. This is two greater than in March 2012. The three-year average for the previous three March’s is 20.3.

SPADs during April
There were 23 SPADs during April. This is eight greater than in April 2012. The three-year average for the
previous three April’s is 19.3

SPADs during May
There were 21 SPADs during May. This is four greater than in May 2012. The three-year average for the previous
three May’s is 20.0.

Up to date info:

 

[Quickthorn]

Thanks for that.

[...]

The main concern is trainees getting the jobs when they are not competent to because of using the practice material available where some people going for the jobs who have not practiced getting borderline passes and missing out.

[...]

I know that the issue of practicing/cheating has come up on these forums before. If unsuitable people are getting through, I'd have thought that they'd be found out during the training. Do you know if more people are failing the training than before?

I'm not trying to be awkward here, I'm genuinely interested. Newcomers in my industry often get a hard time from those already in with more experience, even though the training and certification standards have never been higher. The irony is that it's the people with a few decades of experience who feature more in accident reports.

 

[TDK]

Thanks for that.



I know that the issue of practicing/cheating has come up on these forums before. If unsuitable people are getting through, I'd have thought that they'd be found out during the training. Do you know if more people are failing the training than before?

I'm not trying to be awkward here, I'm genuinely interested. Newcomers in my industry often get a hard time from those already in with more experience, even though the training and certification standards have never been higher. The irony is that it's the people with a few decades of experience who feature more in accident reports.

Up until recently I have never heard of anyone failing the training however over the last 3 months without mentioning any names 5 people have contacted me for advice on their position during their probationary period because they have failed both their rules and traction on more than one occasion. So in my view, yes unsuitable people are getting through the tests and interviews by practicing and getting answers to the CBI questions.

The thing with the railway is there is a huge divide between old hands (ex BR) and newer drivers. For example I have never reported a train with reds on the front, I always warn the driver they have reds on front and they change them. A new driver has it drummed into them to report everything and not realising the consequences of their actions. Obviously some things have to be reported. I have had guards make mistakes on my train and if I reported them they may have been in deep poo however a word in the ear usually suffices and if it is a mistake they learn from it, as long as safety has not been breached where is the problem?. Some may think this is the wrong approach however it has seen me through quite well but then again you could say I am a middle hand and not an old hand (15 years).

Sorry to hijack the thread here and go off topic but I had someone, a new driver the other day road learning, as soon as he opened his mouth I thought "know it all" he was criticising my driving and he had never driven a train of the type I was driving saying that I should not use step 2 as it had been drizzling, I said nowt to him but it these types that usually don't get on with their working relationships with others. He also asked me about the route, I told him what I thought and he said are you sure you sign this route? I have been driving it for over 10 years.

 

[youngboy]

I thought "know it all" he was criticising my driving and he had never driven a train of the type I was driving saying that I should not use step 2 as it had been drizzling, I said nowt to him but it these types that usually don't get on with their working relationships with others. He also asked me about the route, I told him what I thought and he said are you sure you sign this route? I have been driving it for over 10 years.

Wow, I take it he wouldn't fit through the side window ??

 

[TDK]

Wow, I take it he wouldn't fit through the side window ??

To be fair there are not many like that most new drivers are very willing to listen and learn from experience but it's like anything you get one that tars the brush as they say!

 

[SkinnyDave]

You sometimes find people acting like that are very insecure and don't have a lot of confidence..
Or it may be as simple as him being a moron!