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Firefighter to train driver

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d239

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12 Mar 2025
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4
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London
Genuinely after some honest advice about changing careers.
I've been in London Fire Brigade for 20 years and on the whole, loved it and am happy at work apart from the poor salary for what we have to do.

I've passed everything I've needed to for Southern and am just waiting on a course start date.

If anyone else has done it do you recommend it? Any regrets?
I have a young family and am worried about being tired all the time around them during these early years.
The money would be amazing for the family though.

All advice Genuinely appreciated.
 
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Class2ldn

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25 Feb 2011
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Have a search on here, there's quite a few that have done it, tbh not many regret the move.
The shifts will be different but you'll soon get used to it.
The training is long and intense and will require a bit of home study but its worth it in the long run.
Got some ex firefighters, police, ambulance, army etc at my place and some of them are fairly young and don't seem to feel like they've made a mistake.
 

EuxtonNeutral

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2025
Messages
43
Location
London
Genuinely after some honest advice about changing careers.
I've been in London Fire Brigade for 20 years and on the whole, loved it and am happy at work apart from the poor salary for what we have to do.

I've passed everything I've needed to for Southern and am just waiting on a course start date.

If anyone else has done it do you recommend it? Any regrets?
I have a young family and am worried about being tired all the time around them during these early years.
The money would be amazing for the family though.

All advice Genuinely appreciated.
All i can say is that it is such a good job in so many ways that it’s worth giving it a really good go to see if you like it. I moved into it from a 9-5…tbh the worst of the shift working hasn’t kicked in yet because the training/route learning has lasted nearly two years. The roster is tricky but also you have a lot of free time, albeit not always when you want it. Good luck!
 

Stigy

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It's not always the wisest decision to pursue a career as a train driver solely based on salary, as we do have to sacrifice a lot for what we get paid. The salary is good, but the rostered leave, antisocial shifts and constant assessments are a drawback. Admittedly you'll be used to the assessment side of things I'd imagine, but the shifts are something else, even if you've worked shifts your entire career (judging by your post, you do seem to appreciate the fatigue inducing part of the job).
 

krisg92

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Joined
15 Jun 2023
Messages
24
Location
Kent
I joined the railway from the police. Obviously slightly different roles from your self but Id hazard a guess and say the way A/L, shifts, management are quite similar.

I had a number of reasons for my move, which ultimately suited my life for the better.

No nights (I'm SE), better pay, shorter working week, closer to home are a few reasons. I have young kids, but have already done shift work so used to that. I've not found it too difficult working around work/kids so far. I can manage pretty well, sometimes you do just have to put yourself and job first in certain situations. For example no late nights on earlies, not drinking night before etc.

Things I struggled to adapt to were the rostered A/L, less flexibility in A/L days here and there, the odd shift change here and there. Most people are quite helpful when it comes to swapping rest days I've found.

Training was very intense for me, I knew nothing of the railway before hand. I had to put the work in to get results, revised most nights whilst at the school.

Overall good career change for me so far. Hope some of this insight helps.
 

MoraleSponge

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Joined
3 Dec 2024
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14
Location
North West
Genuinely after some honest advice about changing careers.
I've been in London Fire Brigade for 20 years and on the whole, loved it and am happy at work apart from the poor salary for what we have to do.

I've passed everything I've needed to for Southern and am just waiting on a course start date.

If anyone else has done it do you recommend it? Any regrets?
I have a young family and am worried about being tired all the time around them during these early years.
The money would be amazing for the family though.

All advice Genuinely appreciated.
In my opinion the LFB shift pattern is better for a young family than what you will work as a driver.

Yes money is good and you have a good amount of time off when you have rest days/long weekends. But when you are working, shift starts and finishes can be different every day.

Driving is a fairly solitary job, great in many ways but completely different to being part of a watch.

Only you can know what is right for you based on your priorities. Most people don't regret the move but it will take some time adjusting to it.
 

d239

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Joined
12 Mar 2025
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4
Location
London
I joined the railway from the police. Obviously slightly different roles from your self but Id hazard a guess and say the way A/L, shifts, management are quite similar.

I had a number of reasons for my move, which ultimately suited my life for the better.

No nights (I'm SE), better pay, shorter working week, closer to home are a few reasons. I have young kids, but have already done shift work so used to that. I've not found it too difficult working around work/kids so far. I can manage pretty well, sometimes you do just have to put yourself and job first in certain situations. For example no late nights on earlies, not drinking night before etc.

Things I struggled to adapt to were the rostered A/L, less flexibility in A/L days here and there, the odd shift change here and there. Most people are quite helpful when it comes to swapping rest days I've found.

Training was very intense for me, I knew nothing of the railway before hand. I had to put the work in to get results, revised most nights whilst at the school.

Overall good career change for me so far. Hope some of this insight helps.
Do parents of young children get any kind of priority with regards to taking AL during school holidays or is it fairly random have you found?
 

Stigy

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Joined
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4,964
Do parents of young children get any kind of priority with regards to taking AL during school holidays or is it fairly random have you found?
unless your TOC/FOC has a local agreement in place, you’ll probably find it’s standard rostered/block leave. You’ll have it allocated generally as four blocks throughout the year (generally two weeks for summer). You’ll be able to swap with people or in to vacant blocks etc. blocks are usually rotated each year so you’ll know exactly what leave you’ll get for years in advance.

It’s like that at both TOCs I’ve worked at.
 

GemGem

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31 Jan 2020
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Location
Waterlooville
Do parents of young children get any kind of priority with regards to taking AL during school holidays or is it fairly random have you found?
Mum of 2 young children. No there is no priority. You can try and swap your leave period with others
 

BTU

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Joined
13 Jan 2016
Messages
257
Genuinely after some honest advice about changing careers.
I've been in London Fire Brigade for 20 years and on the whole, loved it and am happy at work apart from the poor salary for what we have to do.

I've passed everything I've needed to for Southern and am just waiting on a course start date.

If anyone else has done it do you recommend it? Any regrets?
I have a young family and am worried about being tired all the time around them during these early years.
The money would be amazing for the family though.

All advice Genuinely appreciated.
I would say that train driving is not for everyone the shifts can and will get very tiring people say you get used to them but I've done 18 years and i'm not used to them I especially hate early turns. AL rostered is a bloody pain especially when the kids where younger something I don't worry about now.
You can swap shifts which I used to do a lot for permanent lates or nights when I was at Southern.
Yes the pay is good but if that's the only reason for your intended change of career I'd think very carefully about it.
Having said all that I don't mind the job it is a bit boring if I'm brutally honest but I like working alone and I enjoy seeing the world go by from the front of a train and without sounding to cliche I enjoy helping people get from A to B and in a strange way I find it rather rewarding.
If you are doing it for the right reasons then go for it.
Best of luck.
 

Flange Squeal

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Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
1,847
Do parents of young children get any kind of priority with regards to taking AL during school holidays or is it fairly random have you found?
The way rostered leave works is through a pattern often called a 'rotation'.

The rotation might look something like (as a random example): 3 - 10 - 5 - 13 - 2 - 8 - 1 - 7 - 4 - 11 - 6 - 12 - 9.

The various weeks of block leave all have a number, e.g. Period 1, Period 2, Period 3 and so on.

The blocks will likely vary between train operating companies, but where I am your four weeks leave is divided into three blocks - a week 'Spring', two weeks 'Summer' and a week 'Winter' (there is no autumn due to the Summer slots being two weeks long). These might typically fall something like Spring (Feb-Apr), Summer (May-Oct) and Winter (Nov-Jan).

So say you were Period 3. You may be allocated one week in February, two weeks in May and one week in November.

The following year you will be Period 10 in the example rotation above, so you may be allocated one week in April, one week in October, and one week in January.

Then the third year you'll be Period 5 dates, fourth year Period 13 dates, and so on.

Those with kids therefore don't get priority as it's all done fairly in such a way that everyone gets their fair share of the 'good' dates (height of summer months) and the generally less desired ones (two weeks summer leave at start of May or end of October, for example). It wouldn't really be fair for some people to have to have all of their holidays at less favourable times just because they don't/can't have children. That said, you can always approach someone with school holiday dates and see if they'd be up for swapping, for example because they don't have kids and their partner isn't a teacher. But because those people are in demand, they will often be inundated with offers so will naturally likely help their mates or choose a swap proposal from someone with dates that suit their needs. For example, when I didn't have kids but had school holidays allocated, I would generally swap with someone offering me two weeks Summer leave in September (when the weather is nice but kids back at school) over someone offering me two weeks Summer leave at start of May or end of October.

When it comes to your remaining ad-hoc days (sometimes called 'floating days'), then this is very much first come first served. There will be a quota of how many people can be off each day to ensure there's enough staff still in to cover the train service, so say that quota allows 5 people to be ad-hoc each day, the first 5 people to book it will get it. Some operators may have a waiting list and agreement that they'll grant you the leave if there is a rest day volunteer worker who can do your shift, but you'll often only find this out two days before which isn't always much use depending what you want the day off for.

Note also that at some operators they will make you use 2 of your ad-hoc days on Christmas Day and Boxing Day, even though they don't run any trains so you couldn't even work if you wanted to. Some operators let you move rest days that week though, so if you were due to work 25th/26th December, you could move your (for example) 23rd/24th rest days to the 25th/26th, and you work 23rd/24th instead.
 
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d239

New Member
Joined
12 Mar 2025
Messages
4
Location
London
Thank you so much everyone for very comprehensive replies.
Last thing I want to do is to go into this blind.
I am used to shifts and feel I can cope with this side of things.

The 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off of the fire brigade does make childcare so much easier whilst my kids are 5 and 3 and something I dont take for granted. Also its very easy during school holidays to get leave to help take care of the children with my wife who also works full time.
Has anyone ever struggled to swap AL to during the summer holidays when its needed?
I never would expect to get priority over others just because I happen to have young children, its just something I would need to try and work around to find a solution if possible.

The motivation for joining the railways isn't only the good pay, but it is the main one if I'm honest. With terms and conditions in the brigade slowly being eroded I would rather get paid well for the time and effort I put in.
I definitely dont expect it to be easy and am more than prepared to put the work in. I understand its swings and roundabouts.
 

Class2ldn

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Joined
25 Feb 2011
Messages
1,400
Certainly no guarantee of getting the holidays off so be prepared for that.
Depending on who you work for you may be able to tie in rest days to help with the time off as well as the adhoc days.
Can take some planning but just be prepared that it may not always work.
Sometimes you just cant get the leave you want unfortunately and you have to work around it.
 

Stigy

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Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,964
Thank you so much everyone for very comprehensive replies.
Last thing I want to do is to go into this blind.
I am used to shifts and feel I can cope with this side of things.

The 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off of the fire brigade does make childcare so much easier whilst my kids are 5 and 3 and something I dont take for granted. Also its very easy during school holidays to get leave to help take care of the children with my wife who also works full time.
Has anyone ever struggled to swap AL to during the summer holidays when its needed?
I never would expect to get priority over others just because I happen to have young children, its just something I would need to try and work around to find a solution if possible.

The motivation for joining the railways isn't only the good pay, but it is the main one if I'm honest. With terms and conditions in the brigade slowly being eroded I would rather get paid well for the time and effort I put in.
I definitely dont expect it to be easy and am more than prepared to put the work in. I understand its swings and roundabouts.
From my experience, there’s usually someone who is prepared to swap who doesn’t have kids, as it’s generally cheaper (and quieter!) to go away on holiday during term time.

Re the shifts; No intention to come across patronising here, but there’s shifts, then there’s train crew shifts :D

You could work shifts one week of 0304, 0510, 0406 and 0600 one week, then go on to a week of lates starting 12 hours later the next week, for a run of 7 on the trot. It’s not as structured as even 12 hour day/night shifts, which generally start at the same time every day.
 

DMckduck

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2020
Messages
488
Thank you so much everyone for very comprehensive replies.
Last thing I want to do is to go into this blind.
I am used to shifts and feel I can cope with this side of things.

The 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off of the fire brigade does make childcare so much easier whilst my kids are 5 and 3 and something I dont take for granted. Also its very easy during school holidays to get leave to help take care of the children with my wife who also works full time.
Has anyone ever struggled to swap AL to during the summer holidays when its needed?
I never would expect to get priority over others just because I happen to have young children, its just something I would need to try and work around to find a solution if possible.

The motivation for joining the railways isn't only the good pay, but it is the main one if I'm honest. With terms and conditions in the brigade slowly being eroded I would rather get paid well for the time and effort I put in.
I definitely dont expect it to be easy and am more than prepared to put the work in. I understand its swings and roundabouts.
Also heavily dependent on the depot your going to, inner London depots Will likely have a higher establishment which in return offers more weekly spaces for block leave.

Some depots only have a maximum of 2 or 3 spaces per leave week, which is very competitive amongst parents.

As others have said, sometimes you can do all the tinkering possible and the leave allocations just don't work out how you want them to.

Also in regards to Terms and Conditions, privatisation has been very kind to the railway, with the DFT and taxpayer now running the show, terms and conditions will be on the menu at every round of pay talks.


The only other thing I would mention, is being transparent with your partner in regards of childcare and emergency coverage of the kids, most of the time you will be unreachable due to driving which your partner will need to be understanding of.

There is no one size fits all policy, it truly is a case by case basis and what suits you and your family dynamic.
 
Joined
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Location
Warrington
I moved from Fire to being a train driver – I did love the brigade; it's a great job, but I don't regret moving at all.

In terms of fatigue, you will be fine with the shifts; you're used to them. Having your alarm go off at 3am for a shift can still be tiring – but compared to the bells going off in a fire station at 3am, it's like heaven.

I've had no problems swapping annual leave/shifts around with colleagues.

The only thing you have to get used to is the shifts having different book-on/off times every day [compared to the set day/night shift start times in fire]. You do have to look at your shifts every week with the other half to sort out who is doing school runs, etc.

It's a 4-day week, like fire; however, sometimes you can end up doing 6/7/8 days on the bounce if your shifts align that way. In my TOC you get a 5-day weekend every 3rd week, which is great.

Hours are less – I've gone from a 48-hour week to a 35-hour week. [Less set annual block leave than fire is the sacrifice – but I can now book off 12 ad hoc days every year compared to the 5 days I got with fire.]

People on the rail are great; everyone looks out for each other – loads of ex-emergency services / military, etc.

I was worried that, compared to fire, there would be no social aspect to being a train driver and that you would be alone most of the time. But I have found the messroom at our depot is great, with lots of days/nights out organised, sports clubs, golf, bike riders, walkers, etc.

And then the salary, which is currently better than a fire area manager - go for it !
 

iwasyoungonce

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15 Dec 2019
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uk
TOC shifts are nothing like what your currently doing at any FRS.

You will be monitored/tested very closely throughout your entire career unlike many FRS where you can largely hide in the crowd or sit at the back.

Mistakes will be treated very seriously and can very easily lead to dismissal, unlike a FRS where your SM will usually have a "tea and a chat" with you.

You will need to learn and retain a large amount of information regarding traction and route knowledge and rules.

You will be on your own as a driver, no watch to fill in the gaps or carry you up when your having a bad day.

Your family/partner will need to be fully on board (sorry) with your choice as train driving impacts family life considerably.
 

whoosh

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3 Sep 2008
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There's at least six ex-Firefighters at Great Northern and I'm sure there are more as they are just off the top of my head. They are all happy with the move to the railway. Two of the six have become Driver Instructors, and one has become a Manager.

As I said - I am sure there are more, and I'm sure the ones I can't place off the top of my head include Instructors too.

A few years ago an entire watch at a Bedfordshire fire station, including the Station Commander, joined the railway as Trainee Drivers during one Thameslink recruitment campaign!

What depot are you looking at with Southern?

To give you an idea, there's a post here where I discussed Three Bridges depot at Southern. There's a sample roster there.
Obviously, different depots have different start and finish times, and different overall numbers of drivers, but all Southern depots have the same rest day pattern.

A/R shifts - the 'movement' of upto +/-3 hours that is mentioned, you'd usually find out what your duty is for that day when the roster is posted the week before (called Daily Alteration Sheets), but at the latest it's 48 hours notice. After that if you are still A/R you come in for the A/R hours and can be given work between those hours only.


Mrs Whoosh finds the forward planning around A/R shifts a pain in the arse. Also, the whole roster can change with each timetable, which occurs a couple of weeks before Christmas (I know - isn't that helpful?!), and in May (which means planning for the summer can be a pain too). She thinks that is a pain in the arse too.
However, unlike where I work, the rest day pattern at Southern is at least fixed, so you know your rest days will be the same.


Edit: Whilst weekly leave is allocated and moves by rotation each year, (which someone has described above) you can always string some ad-hoc days together to try and get a week off in a school holiday.
A popular school holiday happens to be when a family member's birthday is, and I've always managed to get the week off throughout my career, either by swapping weekly leave or using ad-hoc days - and I've worked at medium to large sized depots with between 45 and 150 drivers.
 
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dctraindriver

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9 Jan 2017
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615
TOC shifts are nothing like what your currently doing at any FRS.

You will be monitored/tested very closely throughout your entire career unlike many FRS where you can largely hide in the crowd or sit at the back.

Mistakes will be treated very seriously and can very easily lead to dismissal, unlike a FRS where your SM will usually have a "tea and a chat" with you.

You will need to learn and retain a large amount of information regarding traction and route knowledge and rules.

You will be on your own as a driver, no watch to fill in the gaps or carry you up when your having a bad day.

Your family/partner will need to be fully on board (sorry) with your choice as train driving impacts family life considerably.
Definitely things to consider. On the flip side of that is the monitoring and testing is a good thing for sure, most people appreciate that there is an expectation to keep on top of things within the competency cycle. It’s a positive and while most of us don’t like assessments, knowing I’m up to the task in hand makes me appreciate it for what it is. The assessments are chilled most of the time.

I’m at a fairly large depot, and I’ll be honest I probably know two drivers who have lost their job in the years I’ve been there. It certainly does happen, but loosing the job isn’t as easy as some make out.

Management (where I am) are a supportive lot on the whole and know that mistakes do occur, its when people don’t report something that’s gone wrong or lie is when things can go wrong for their career. Being in the union is something I’d recommend as this is where they earn their subscription.

You do have to like your own company, but there is time in the Messroom to have a bit of banter.

As I said I’m at a large depot, so swapping weeks is something many do. I’m happy to swap my summer leave in July and August for something later.

Partner does have to accept an element of antisocial hours and so will you. It’s the hardest part of the job on occasions but also one of the best parts as you tend to have a decent amount of time off over the course of the year.

Positives outweigh the negatives by a long chalk IMO.
 
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