Fire on Train Caerphilly

[PHILIPE]

This evenings 2R20 1701 Cardiff Cen to Rhymney on fire Caerphilly with clouds of smoke coming from underneath the rear end and enveloping almost the whole carriage and platform. Fire Brigade in attendance with 6 appliances at scene. All passengers were safely evacuated to the platform and disruption expected until at least 2000. I don't know the number of the unit concerned but it was a 142 with a 150 coupled behind. People on Twitter were complaining that the train was unsafe due to overcrowding which seems to be a regular complaint on ATW Twitter and who get the reply there is no limit on the number of passengers carried as approved by the RSSB (if I've got the organisation correct). Both Up and Down lines closed initially but now trains able to Run to and from Cardiff direction by using the Bay Platform.
Confirmed fire extinguished at 1831, just over an hour later, and Down Trains may pass at 5mph max.

 

[TheLastMinute]

According to the pictures appearing on Twitter, it was 142072 involved.

The initial reports sound similar to a fire on a 143 in October 2004 that caught alight between Bristol and Nailsea & Backwell. The investigation into that fire found the likely cause was electrical arcing between the live starter motor cable (which had damaged insulation) and the unit's underframe that caused accumulated oily residues to ignite. Have there been any similar incidence with Pacers since then?

TLM

 

[PHILIPE]

According to the pictures appearing on Twitter, it was 142072 involved.

The initial reports sound similar to a fire on a 143 in October 2004 that caught alight between Bristol and Nailsea & Backwell. The investigation into that fire found the likely cause was electrical arcing between the live starter motor cable (which had damaged insulation) and the unit's underframe that caused accumulated oily residues to ignite. Have there been any similar incidence with Pacers since then?

TLM

There was a case also involving a 143 at Ystrad Mynach at about the same time resulting in this and the Nailsea unit being withdrawn.
Incidentally have learnt that the 150 at Caerphilly was 150253.

 

[westcoaster]

Quite a few pics here Take a look at @GouldSam's Tweet: https://twitter.com/GouldSam/status/783369958227079168?s=09

 

[alexf380]

Write off?

Glad no-one was injured though, very well done to the fire brigade for responding so quickly.

 

[abn444]

Oh dear, not a good day for ATW then, with this and the earlier bridge fire. I wonder with that other unit stuck because of the bridge and now this unit damaged, would they now have a train shortage?

 

[PHILIPE]

Oh dear, not a good day for ATW then, with this and the earlier bridge fire. I wonder with that other unit stuck because of the bridge and now this unit damaged, would they now have a train shortage?

Now. They've had a serious shortage for years now with standing commonplace at times on some routes. The franchise was let in 2003 on a no growth basis which, when some passenger numbers double, leaves no flexilibility to meet changing circumstamces.

 

[richw]

1 less pacer cant be a bad thing!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

According to the pictures appearing on Twitter, it was 142072 involved.

The initial reports sound similar to a fire on a 143 in October 2004 that caught alight between Bristol and Nailsea & Backwell. The investigation into that fire found the likely cause was electrical arcing between the live starter motor cable (which had damaged insulation) and the unit's underframe that caused accumulated oily residues to ignite. Have there been any similar incidence with Pacers since then?

TLM

Besides the 2 143 fires which resulted in withdrawals, almost 3 years ago there was a fire on board the MS vehicle of 144023 at Smithy Bridge near Rochdale. The vehicle wasn't written off, but took over 6 months to repair, the unit running as a 2-car set for that time. When it returned, there was a slightly smoky aroma to the vehicle for a good while!

The limit of cost for a repair will be lower now that it would have been 5 years ago, with the 142s being essentially on borrowed time. Part of the decision may rely on how quickly a replacement might become available from GWR or Northern...

 

[PHILIPE]

Besides the 2 143 fires which resulted in withdrawals, almost 3 years ago there was a fire on board the MS vehicle of 144023 at Smithy Bridge near Rochdale. The vehicle wasn't written off, but took over 6 months to repair, the unit running as a 2-car set for that time. When it returned, there was a slightly smoky aroma to the vehicle for a good while!

The limit of cost for a repair will be lower now that it would have been 5 years ago, with the 142s being essentially on borrowed time. Part of the decision may rely on how quickly a replacement might become available from GWR or Northern...

There won't be any 142 available for a while until the units due to go to Northern become available. Definitely no 142 from GWR - they haven't got any !!!

 

[fgwrich]

Write off?

Glad no-one was injured though, very well done to the fire brigade for responding so quickly.

Probably not, the damage doesn't look that superficial. Probably out for a few months I reckon with a fair amount of underframe work.

There won't be any 142 available for a while until the units due to go to Northern become available. Definitely no 142 from GWR - they haven't got any !!!

Probably referring to the GWR 143s when they finish at Exeter. Unless GWR chooses to retain a few due to the delayed cascade.

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest if not already how will this 142 be moved as obviously it cant be moved under its own power and where will it be moved to?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There won't be any 142 available for a while until the units due to go to Northern become available. Definitely no 142 from GWR - they haven't got any !!!

I wasn't referring solely to 142s as a replacement- could see 144012 being sent to Wales to try and drum up a case for more ePacers, for example. After all it doesn't have a long-term future at Northern.

 

[PHILIPE]

Out of interest if not already how will this 142 be moved as obviously it cant be moved under its own power and where will it be moved to?

It's been moved from the running line allegedly to a Siding. There is no siding at Caerphilly so I assume must be Platform 1, the South facing Bay. Shouldn't be any problem taking it to Canton with the 150 that was attached to it and would be leading towards Cardiff. It's still got its wheels !!!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Probably not, the damage doesn't look that superficial. Probably out for a few months I reckon with a fair amount of underframe work.



Probably referring to the GWR 143s when they finish at Exeter. Unless GWR chooses to retain a few due to the delayed cascade.

Given there's no plan to get the units beyond 12/2019 it wouldn't take much to make repairs uneconomical...

And yes I was referring to 143s/144s, see above.

 

[gareth950]

Shouldn't this be the final nail in the coffin now to get the 142s at least scrapped ASAP, like right now?
Mind you, apart from their appearance, I don't see how 143s are any better. I was on one earlier this evening, before I found out about this fire but after it had happened, and honestly, the noises that come from Pacers just don't sound safe!
On pulling out of stations, it sounded like the underframe of the 143 was going to separate from the main body.
It's total madness that Wales is locked in to this no growth franchise with ATW for another 2 years and absolutely nothing can be done to get us out of it. Complete and utter madness. :-x

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Shouldn't this be the final nail in the coffin now to get the 142s at least scrapped ASAP, like right now?
Mind you, apart from their appearance, I don't see how 143s are any better. I was on one earlier this evening, before I found out about this fire but after it had happened, and honestly, the noises that come from Pacers just don't sound safe!
On pulling out of stations, it sounded like the underframe of the 143 was going to separate from the main body.
It's total madness that Wales is locked in to this no growth franchise with ATW for another 2 years and absolutely nothing can be done to get us out of it. Complete and utter madness. :-x

The end is in sight for Pacers, even if the Alexander varieties (143/144) are upgraded for PRM compliance they won't last forever... but getting rid of all of them "right now" would choke the Valleys with congestion due to all the replacement bus services!

 

[gareth950]

Unsurprisingly the general consensus on FB and twitter tonight is that ATW are operating 'death trap' trains and people saying that 'I'm driving to work from now on'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reports from passengers that the 142 was 'smoking' at Queen St but was allowed to carry on with people being encouraged to board and got as far as Caerphilly isn't going to do ATW staff any favours either.

 

[fgwrich]

Given there's no plan to get the units beyond 12/2019 it wouldn't take much to make repairs uneconomical...

And yes I was referring to 143s/144s, see above.

There is that but, Can ATW afford to loose another 2 car DMU though? Hence I can forsee the unit potentially returning, post 2019 or not. It's not as if there's any spare 150s coming out over night they could replace it with unfortunately.

 

[PHILIPE]

Unsurprisingly the general consensus on FB and twitter tonight is that ATW are operating 'death trap' trains and people saying that 'I'm driving to work from now on'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reports from passengers that the 142 was 'smoking' at Queen St but was allowed to carry on with people being encouraged to board and got as far as Caerphilly isn't going to do ATW staff any favours either.

Investigations started today as to why train was allowed to leave Queen St after smoke was seen there.

 

[83G/84D]

Reports also that the fire brigade took an axe to the floor of the 142 to get to the source of the fire.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Reports also that the fire brigade took an axe to the floor of the 142 to get to the source of the fire.

Similar action was required with 144023, one of the reasons it stayed as a 2-car set for so long.

 

[gareth950]

Investigations started today as to why train was allowed to leave Queen St after smoke was seen there.

So is it normal for smoke or fumes to be seen coming out from the underneath of a 1980s built DMU whilst in normal service?
Have Pacers got heat sensors near or in the engines that can alert the driver if the engine is overheating and at risk of catching fire? Surely all DMU's should have this?

If the fire brigade had to take an axe to the floor then surely it's a write off?

 

[PHILIPE]

So is it normal for smoke or fumes to be seen coming out from the underneath of a 1980s built DMU whilst in normal service?
Have Pacers got heat sensors near or in the engines that can alert the driver if the engine is overheating and at risk of catching fire? Surely all DMU's should have this?

If the fire brigade had to take an axe to the floor then surely it's a write off?

Said to have been electrical fault,

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So is it normal for smoke or fumes to be seen coming out from the underneath of a 1980s built DMU whilst in normal service?

Yes - I've seen it many times and not once has any member of staff shown any interest when it's been mentioned to them... I am guessing on leaky exhaust system joints being very common?

 

[headshot119]

Unsurprisingly the general consensus on FB and twitter tonight is that ATW are operating 'death trap' trains and people saying that 'I'm driving to work from now on'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Reports from passengers that the 142 was 'smoking' at Queen St but was allowed to carry on with people being encouraged to board and got as far as Caerphilly isn't going to do ATW staff any favours either.

So is it normal for smoke or fumes to be seen coming out from the underneath of a 1980s built DMU whilst in normal service?
Have Pacers got heat sensors near or in the engines that can alert the driver if the engine is overheating and at risk of catching fire? Surely all DMU's should have this?

If the fire brigade had to take an axe to the floor then surely it's a write off?

Your posts show a limited understanding of how the railways actually work.

Replacing a floor will be fairly cheap in terms of materials, so taking an axe to it doesn't mean the vehicle is a write off :roll:

All DMUs are fitted with engine fire detection systems, which will alert the driver if there is a fire.

It isn't unusual to see an amount of exhaust fumes leaking from under a unit, especially older ones where the exhaust system has a small leak through corrosion and general wear.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes very common for wisps of smoke to be wafting up and more smoke than that is not exactly rare. The old DMUs had automatically discharging fire systems so I imagine the later ones did too.

 

[MotCO]

There is that but, Can ATW afford to loose another 2 car DMU though? Hence I can forsee the unit potentially returning, post 2019 or not. It's not as if there's any spare 150s coming out over night they could replace it with unfortunately.

Vivarail to the rescue?

 

[fgwrich]

Yes - I've seen it many times and not once has any member of staff shown any interest when it's been mentioned to them... I am guessing on leaky exhaust system joints being very common?

Don't forget that many DMUs including the Turbostars? Have Webasto Auxiliary underfloor heaters which burns a small amount of diesel to supply heat and to a pre-heat a colder engine in cold weather. They can tend to be a little bit on the smokey side too, more often than not you'll smell it then hear it before you see the smoke from them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shouldn't this be the final nail in the coffin now to get the 142s at least scrapped ASAP, like right now?

No. All sorts of DMUs have caught fire, I think the most recent one was a near brand-new Class 172.

We shouldn't in my view scrap any Pacers until we have enough rolling stock that people get a seat in the peaks on provincial services, as it's purely a lack of rolling stock that prevents this, unlike down South where lines are at capacity.