FIRE FIGHTING WAGONS

[co-tr-paul]

After seeing a few Fb posts and what with climate change and steam bans etc , should it be compulsory for heritage lines who operate steam in high summer to have a water carrying/ fire fighting wagon ?
I know sone lines already cater for such eventuallies.
Yes i also know lineside management plays a part but would also be helpful to brigades to access areas they would have difficulties with ???
Maybe even a Network Rail version that could shadow mainline steam railtours ?
( i know ; how did we cope pre 1968 ? ! )

 

[D6130]

After seeing a few Fb posts and what with climate change and steam bans etc , should it be compulsory for heritage lines who operate steam in high summer to have a water carrying/ fire fighting wagon ?
I know sone lines already cater for such eventuallies.
Yes i also know lineside management plays a part but would also be helpful to brigades to access areas they would have difficulties with ???
Maybe even a Network Rail version that could shadow mainline steam railtours ?
( i know ; how did we cope pre 1968 ? ! )

Pre-1968, the railways didn't have to contend with the amount of all-encroaching overhanging trees, bushes and other vegetation that they have to now. Cuttings and embankments were kept neat and tidy by the local permanent way gangs and the ballast on most rural lines was kept so neatly and tidily that you could comfortably cycle along the cess. However grass fires from steam locos were not entirely unknown during spells of hot dry summer weather.

 

[Forty29]

Yes l agree all heritage railways who operate steam should have some kind of mobile rail bourne water tender stratically placed on the line to extinguish lineside fires.
Most preserved lines have wagons or coaches not in use that could be converted with the addition of a water tank and some kind of pressure system to operate it.
Of course it all comes down to cost but railways that already have them probably used some kind of ingenious cut price way of getting around the problem.Though of course a locomotive would always be available to be called upon.
That's my view of it, but it might be not that straightforward and l'm sure others will be able to give another perspective, especially if heritage lines must provide it as a necessity.

 

[StephenHunter]

Frankly, it's probably cheaper to just not use steam in those conditions.

 

[Sun Chariot]

After seeing a few Fb posts and what with climate change and steam bans etc , should it be compulsory for heritage lines who operate steam in high summer to have a water carrying/ fire fighting wagon ?
I know sone lines already cater for such eventuallies.
Yes i also know lineside management plays a part but would also be helpful to brigades to access areas they would have difficulties with ???
Maybe even a Network Rail version that could shadow mainline steam railtours ?
( i know ; how did we cope pre 1968 ? ! )

The act of fire-fighting is hazardous and, from my training 35 years ago, the risk of injury or death from fire fanned by wind means employers, insurers and the Fire Service advise to let professionals (experienced, trained, safety-kitted) tackle it.

Even the smaller lineside fires can take hold very quickly: the attached photo (near Ropley on Mid-Hants Railway, mid-June 2013) shows the aftermath of a lineside fire two weeks prior - I was there, when the small burning lineside clump spread to the entire side of that embankment, in about 4 minutes. No rail-borne water-tank or eqiipment will get there quickly enough.

 

[John Webb]

The act of fire-fighting is hazardous and, from my training 35 years ago, the risk of injury or death from fire fanned by wind means employers, insurers and the Fire Service advise to let professionals (experienced, trained, safety-kitted) tackle it.

Even the smaller lineside fires can take hold very quickly: the attached photo (near Ropley on Mid-Hants Railway, mid-June 2013) shows the aftermath of a lineside fire two weeks prior - I was there, when the small burning lineside clump spread to the entire side of that embankment, in about 4 minutes. No rail-borne water-tank or eqiipment will get there quickly enough.

As someone involved in fire safety for over 50 years, who trained as an industrial fire-fighter for our works fire brigade and whose research establishment was next to a substantial railway cutting, I agree with your comments. 1979 was bad, and we turned out several times to railway embankment fires, to at least ensure the fire didn't cross over into our premises, but were generally able to dowse it - but that was using full-size fire hose and nozzles. (An amusing aside - I was away when one incident occurred and my deputy reported the cause of the fire was "children cooking dinner" and added they'd found two rather overcooked jacket potatoes!)

But outdoor fires are hazardous due wind changes, changes in gradients and other factors.

I do recall that the Dartmouth railway has (or had) a fire-fighting unit about halfway along the line - I'm sure there was something on YouTube several years ago showing them using a monitor jet to tackle a steep embankment fire from below while the local fire service worked from above to stop the fire getting into gardens and houses.

 

[Ziggy3legs]

They certainly had it last July as it was in use during my visit! We were held at Churston for about half an hour whilst it dealt with a fire near Greenway Halt. It returned to Churston behind an 08, stabled, and we were on our way. A very professional set up, with something like a former 50 ton tank wagon and another converted (brake van?) wagon mounting a serious water canon. Immaculately turned out in fire engine red and emblazoned with something like "In association with Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue" lettering and crest.

 

[SECR 65]

The Queen Mary Brake Van at the Bluebell Railway has been fitted with water tanks and a pump. The tender engines have portable petrol powered pumps on their tenders.

 

[30907]

I have seen it done in Slovakia (for the occasional rack-worked steam at Tisovec) but rack lines often work multiple trains "in section" so that sort of shadowing (at fairly close quarters!) would not fit with conventional signalling.

 

[Forty29]

Saw on a YouTube video that the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway has what looks like a fire fighting unit which looks like maybe a converted brake van with a fire brigade emblem on the side and a tank wagon presumably filled with water.
Was out on the line yesterday being towed by D2162. Later steam hauled by 4110 changed to class 37 D6975.

 

[John Webb]

Saw on a YouTube video that the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway has what looks like a fire fighting unit which looks like maybe a converted brake van with a fire brigade emblem on the side and a tank wagon presumably filled with water.
Was out on the line yesterday being towed by D2162. Later steam hauled by 4110 changed to class 37 D6975.

This unit was mentioned in posts 6 and 7 above.

 

[Forty29]

That will teach me to read some previous posts beforehand!
However today Monday 10th August the equipment hauled by D2162 was used to extinguish a small grass fire at Salturn Cove after the passage of 4110 on a service train.
The unit has a strong pressure of water and was useful for tackling the fire which was a distance away.
D6975 handled subsequent services.