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Fines in Scotland
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bb21
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Would you care to elaborate on anything more specific?
The legislation is the same, the Court system is slightly different and because of this private prosecutions for fares & ticketing matters are currently rare if not non-existent north of the border. Some discussion involving police and the constituent TOCs running services up there took place last year. I understand that it is still a matter which is not entirely clear.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Yes. There's really two questions here:- The procedures of the Railway Operators and the Law.
The vast majority of rail journeys in Scotland are provided by First ScotRail and these are a) subject to Scottish Law, b) subject to that Company's policies and custom which tends not to pursue Criminal Prosecutions as their English and Welsh counterparts might do. They might consider a breach of Contract and would bring such a Prosecution forward to the Sheriffs or Justices or seek the intervention of the Police to take forward a Criminal prosecution to the Procurator Fiscal. However, some journeys are undertaken on other UK operators (e.g. East Coast, Virgin, Cross Country, etc.) and these Companies will be inclined to investigate and process irregularities much as they would in England; their Contracts (with a small number of exceptions) will be subject to English Law.
In terms of process, FSR are less likely to pursue a claim in the Scottish Courts as a private prosecutor (as their English counterparts do), and so the quantum of any claim and therefore the penalties that you asked about are likely to be very different - e.g. the costs and Fines of a Criminal tariff in England & Wales as opposed to the costs and losses of a Civil action in Scotland.
You have specifically asked about Fare Dodging, and as you probably know, serious Offences are considered fraudulent. The Fraud Act does not apply in Scotland, although such offences in Scotland will be treated under the Common Law model of Fraud.
The Scottish Executive is under some pressure to introduce more effective and comprehensive Fraud legislation.
[My knowledge and experience of Railway offences in Scotland is slight. Perhaps someone else will point out any errors or omissions.]
The vast majority of rail journeys in Scotland are provided by First ScotRail and these are a) subject to Scottish Law, b) subject to that Company's policies and custom which tends not to pursue Criminal Prosecutions as their English and Welsh counterparts might do. They might consider a breach of Contract and would bring such a Prosecution forward to the Sheriffs or Justices or seek the intervention of the Police to take forward a Criminal prosecution to the Procurator Fiscal. However, some journeys are undertaken on other UK operators (e.g. East Coast, Virgin, Cross Country, etc.) and these Companies will be inclined to investigate and process irregularities much as they would in England; their Contracts (with a small number of exceptions) will be subject to English Law.
In terms of process, FSR are less likely to pursue a claim in the Scottish Courts as a private prosecutor (as their English counterparts do), and so the quantum of any claim and therefore the penalties that you asked about are likely to be very different - e.g. the costs and Fines of a Criminal tariff in England & Wales as opposed to the costs and losses of a Civil action in Scotland.
You have specifically asked about Fare Dodging, and as you probably know, serious Offences are considered fraudulent. The Fraud Act does not apply in Scotland, although such offences in Scotland will be treated under the Common Law model of Fraud.
The Scottish Executive is under some pressure to introduce more effective and comprehensive Fraud legislation.
[My knowledge and experience of Railway offences in Scotland is slight. Perhaps someone else will point out any errors or omissions.]
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michael769
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The maximim penalties are the same, but the legal system and the processes around it are very different, and sentences are often different.
It is not normally possible to raise private prosecutions in Scotland so the police are usually involved and offenders reported to the Procurator Fiscal, which pretty much means court (or a Fiscal Fine if they are really luckey) is enevitable as they do not entertain put of court settlements. There is no sending of letters asking for an explanation.
This combined with the fact that the legal system tends to move a bit faster up here means that solicitors get involved at an earlier stage and there is less scope for folks to seek advice from a forum like this.
Obviously this places a grater up front burden on Scotrail when seeking to pursue offenders, and combined with an inability to raise revenues from settlements mean that Scotrail have less incentive to pursue the issue with the same enthusiasm as South of the border, so the emphasis is on cases of outright criminality.
Having said that I have heard that there have been discussions with the Crown Office about the issue and The Scottish Government is keen on seeing revenue protection being addressed so things may change.
The Scottish civil law is as adverse to penalty charges as is the English one, so I am not convinced that civil actions would be entirely productive.
It is not normally possible to raise private prosecutions in Scotland so the police are usually involved and offenders reported to the Procurator Fiscal, which pretty much means court (or a Fiscal Fine if they are really luckey) is enevitable as they do not entertain put of court settlements. There is no sending of letters asking for an explanation.
This combined with the fact that the legal system tends to move a bit faster up here means that solicitors get involved at an earlier stage and there is less scope for folks to seek advice from a forum like this.
Obviously this places a grater up front burden on Scotrail when seeking to pursue offenders, and combined with an inability to raise revenues from settlements mean that Scotrail have less incentive to pursue the issue with the same enthusiasm as South of the border, so the emphasis is on cases of outright criminality.
Having said that I have heard that there have been discussions with the Crown Office about the issue and The Scottish Government is keen on seeing revenue protection being addressed so things may change.
The Scottish civil law is as adverse to penalty charges as is the English one, so I am not convinced that civil actions would be entirely productive.
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Yes, these are the meetings that I referred to, but it isn't certain that change can be effected in the near future.
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