Fined by Northern Rail LTD for Forgetting Disabled Pass

[cowboy96]

Dear Rail UK Forums,

I am opening this thread in hopes that I can get some advice on how I can navigate my penalty charge notice.

I was travelling from Elsecar to Barnsley on 28th October, my ticket is a disabled pass issued by my local authority as such I didn’t need to purchase one. Unfortunately, before I got onto the train at ELR I realised that I had forgotten my disabled pass. I did try to go to the ticket machine to try purchase a ticket, but it appeared that the screen wasn’t working, I got onto the train as normal waiting for the ticket conductor to come round so I could buy a ticket. The conductor didn’t bother coming through the carriages, when I got to BNY I approached a ticket revenue officer for Northern Rail Limited when I explained my situation and the reason for not having my pass. He asked for my ID which I reluctantly gave as I was unsure what he wanted it for. It was to issue me a penalty fare notice which only allows me action it within 21 days, i was panicky and a bit upset by the situation. The officer had advised me to appeal it by following the instructions of the ticket and attaching the pass to my appeal.

This is the first time that I have been given a penalty notice of an offense, I am concerned about potentially having a criminal record put onto me for the first time. I am a university student as well as a volunteer within my community, I am also concerned that if I was to get a criminal record that it would affect my ability to continue university as well as getting terminated by the charity I volunteer for within my community as it could show up on my DBS record. Although it was an isolated incident, it has left me feeling completely utterly embarrassed.

I respectfully attach a redacted copy of the relevant paperwork to this forum thread.

I’d like to understand whether this is worth appealing and how do I go about writing an affective appeal.

The ideal outcome that I want out of it is a cancellation of the penalty fare charge, given that I had a disabled pass but couldn’t present it at the time as I had forgotten it. If this has no standing in an appeal, then I am happy to admit to Northern Rail of the offense and pay the fine so that i can rinse my hands of the situation.

I am happy to answer any further questions about my situation if it requires clarification.

Many thanks for your help.

Kind regards,

Cowboy96

 

[John R]

To reassure you on one point, if you pay the Penalty Fare then that is the end of the matter. It is not a criminal conviction, and there will be no impact on your life whatsoever (except your bank balance will be slightly lower).

I will let others comment on how you should appeal and your chances of success. Though I would note that for railcards, there is a process whereby you have one chance a year to provide details of a forgotten card. That is usually where you have bought a discounted ticket though, and in this case, you didn’t have a ticket at all.

I am not sure whether the same process exists for LA issued passes though. Logically it should imo.

 

[ChrisT]

I have read your post several times and it seems to me that the fact that you had forgotten your disabled pass is irrelevant. You tried to purchase a valid ticket but were unable to do so. As such a penalty notice "must not be charged". See link below to "The Railways (Penalty Fairs) Regulations 2018. Section 6(2)(a) applies.

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Your appeal should make this clear. Of course you must be sure that the machine was faulty. Do you have a witness? Did you report this at the time? Can you check it now?

Good luck with the appeal.

 

[WesternLancer]

Dear Rail UK Forums,

I am opening this thread in hopes that I can get some advice on how I can navigate my penalty charge notice.

I was travelling from Elsecar to Barnsley on 28th October, my ticket is a disabled pass issued by my local authority as such I didn’t need to purchase one. Unfortunately, before I got onto the train at ELR I realised that I had forgotten my disabled pass. I did try to go to the ticket machine to try purchase a ticket, but it appeared that the screen wasn’t working, I got onto the train as normal waiting for the ticket conductor to come round so I could buy a ticket. The conductor didn’t bother coming through the carriages, when I got to BNY I approached a ticket revenue officer for Northern Rail Limited when I explained my situation and the reason for not having my pass. He asked for my ID which I reluctantly gave as I was unsure what he wanted it for. It was to issue me a penalty fare notice which only allows me action it within 21 days, i was panicky and a bit upset by the situation. The officer had advised me to appeal it by following the instructions of the ticket and attaching the pass to my appeal.

This is the first time that I have been given a penalty notice of an offense, I am concerned about potentially having a criminal record put onto me for the first time. I am a university student as well as a volunteer within my community, I am also concerned that if I was to get a criminal record that it would affect my ability to continue university as well as getting terminated by the charity I volunteer for within my community as it could show up on my DBS record. Although it was an isolated incident, it has left me feeling completely utterly embarrassed.

I respectfully attach a redacted copy of the relevant paperwork to this forum thread.

I’d like to understand whether this is worth appealing and how do I go about writing an affective appeal.

The ideal outcome that I want out of it is a cancellation of the penalty fare charge, given that I had a disabled pass but couldn’t present it at the time as I had forgotten it. If this has no standing in an appeal, then I am happy to admit to Northern Rail of the offense and pay the fine so that i can rinse my hands of the situation.

I am happy to answer any further questions about my situation if it requires clarification.

Many thanks for your help.

Kind regards,

Cowboy96

Just to add unless you fail to engage with this ie refuse to pay it or fail to appeal no court action will flow from this.

I have read your post several times and it seems to me that the fact that you had forgotten your disabled pass is irrelevant. You tried to purchase a valid ticket but were unable to do so. As such a penalty notice "must not be charged". See link below to "The Railways (Penalty Fairs) Regulations 2018. Section 6(2)(a) applies.

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Your appeal should make this clear. Of course you must be sure that the machine was faulty. Do you have a witness? Did you report this at the time? Can you check it now?

Good luck with the appeal.

Chris Turnbull

Yes. Though I fear the railway company may have a fault log that maintains the machine was not faulty….
And am I correct in thinking people with disabilities are permitted greater leeway with regard to not being required to use a ticket machine anyway. Thus should the OP have been offered the chance to at least buy a ticket from the staff member they approached.

Though I can see that without the disabled pass on them the staff member may have had no means to verify their disability an offer that option.

But perhaps it’s something that could be included in an Appeal?

I’m mindful th op held a local authority issued disabled travel pass and I don’t know if the railway treats those differently to Disabled Persons Railcards which are a different thing.

Penalty Fares experts here will no doubt advise.

To the OP. If you do submit an Apoeal it’s probably worth getting your appeal wording checked here before you submit it to maximise your chances of success.

Note there is a prompt payment discount on Penalty Fares. That is paused whilst appeals are considered but do not miss the deadline for the discount. If paid whilst an Appeal in progress if the Apoeal is successful you are refunded.

 

[Haywain]

it seems to me that the fact that you had forgotten your disabled pass is irrelevant.

As it is specifically mentioned on the PFN, I can't agree that it is not relevant. It actually gives the impression that it has been treated in much the same way as a forgotten season ticket. I think the fact that this happened, and evidence of possessing the pass, should form at least part of the initial appeal.

And am I correct in thinking people with disabilities are permitted greater leeway with regard to not being required to use a ticket machine anyway. Thus should the OP have been offered the chance to at least buy a ticket from the staff member they approached.

They are afforded greater leeway if their disability prevents them from using the available ticket selling facilities. That doesn't appear to apply in this case as the OP asserts that the TVM may not have been operative.

 

[WesternLancer]

They are afforded greater leeway if their disability prevents them from using the available ticket selling facilities. That doesn't appear to apply in this case as the OP asserts that the TVM may not have been operative.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[ChrisT]

As it is specifically mentioned on the PFN, I can't agree that it is not relevant. It actually gives the impression that it has been treated in much the same way as a forgotten season ticket. I think the fact that this happened, and evidence of possessing the pass, should form at least part of the initial appeal.

Yes, you are quite right. As a new member I am still trying to get used to some of the features of this forum and initially struggled to read the penalty notice. My apologies.

Putting myself in the position of the Northern revenue officer, he (or she) probably has several people a day trying it on and not all disabilities are obvious. You should certainly appeal as he suggested by explaining what happened and attaching your pass. If you need to use your pass whilst the appeal is in progress then check if you can sent a photocopy. An email to Customer Services might be helpful.

As has already been said, do not ignore this penalty notice. It's upsetting when something like this happens but the best course of action is to deal with it, not ignore it.

 

[John R]

Yes, you are quite right. As a new member I am still trying to get used to some of the features of this forum and initially struggled to read the penalty notice. My apologies.

As this board exists to help people, and as you've acknowledged that you are new and still learning, it may be better to hold off from posting until you are confident that your posts will be of assistance. There are many typical scenarios that we see here, and regular posters will be familiar with them and the advice to give. (That's not to say that there isn't some debate though on some cases, particularly the more unusual ones!)

 

[WesternLancer]

Putting myself in the position of the Northern revenue officer, he (or she) probably has several people a day trying it on and not all disabilities are obvious. You should certainly appeal as he suggested by explaining what happened and attaching your pass. If you need to use your pass whilst the appeal is in progress then check if you can sent a photocopy. An email to Customer Services might be helpful.

Good point here. Ref the pass. A good idea but I would send a copy not the original to the Appeal body. You could not fully rely on them to return the original and any risk of loss of the pass would be a nuisance. If they want an original they can ask.

I expect the op may want to Apeal on line anyway so would be having to upload a copy in any case.

 

[Titfield]

Good point here. Ref the pass. A good idea but I would send a copy not the original to the Appeal body. You could not fully rely on them to return the original and any risk of loss of the pass would be a nuisance. If they want an original they can ask.

They may ask for a certified copy though there would be a small cost to the OP if they had to do this.

 

[cowboy96]

Dear Friends,

I would like to take this opportunity to thank those who have so far provided insight or advice in regards to my notice.

I've realised that i did not provide a redacted version of my disabled pass as per category guidance from the section moderator, my apologies. It probably would have helped if i did that in first place when writing this thread, please find it attached. I also attach the state of the ticket machine.

If i am to appeal, this will be done via Penalty Services LTD who said they'd recommend that i do it online as postal appeals can take longer to process.

I saw that ChrisT asked a couple of questions which i will happily answer below:

1) As i was on my own, i do not have a witness sadly.
2) I did not report at the time, i have checked today at the machine. It is still the same way but it appears like the card screen has now been broken too, i have reported this online via the chat bot on Northern's website.
3) I have checked this afternoon.

I am happy to look around the other threads of this category to come up with an appeal letter and post it here ASAP. (will only do this if it's still worth appealing following this reply from myself)

Please do let me know if any further questions pop up after this reply and i will aim to reply when i can.

Many thanks.

Kind Regards,

Cowboy96

 

[gray1404]

I think you have complicated matters here by mentioning to the Inspector about forgetting your disabled pass. Once you realised you didn't have your pass on you and as this was before you got on the train, you attempted to purchase a ticket and this was the correct thing to do.

Upon attempting to purchase a ticket you were unable to do so due to a fault with the ticket machine. Due to the fault with the ticket machine you were unable to purchase a ticket before travel. It is on that basis that you should make an appeal.

Do not complicate things again, like what I fear happened on the day, by bringing your disabled pass into it. I am not familiar with the station you started your journey. Can you confirm if there was an open ticket office or any other ticket machines you could have used?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2025 ==

It is reported on Northern Journey Check that the ticket machine at that station is out of order so the Inspector should have been aware of this.

 

[cowboy96]

I think you have complicated matters here by mentioning to the inspector about forgetting your disabled pass. Once you realise you didn't have your pass on you and as this was before you got on the train you attempted to purchase a ticket and this was the correct thing to do.

Upon attempting to purchase a ticket you what unable to do so due to a fault with the ticket machine. Due to the fault with the ticket machine you were unable to purchase a ticket before travel. It is on that basis that you should make an appeal.

Do not complicate things again like what I fear happened on the day by bringing your disabled pass into it. I am not familiar with the station you started your journey though so I do need to confirm was there an open ticket office or whether any other ticket machines you could have used?

Dear gray1404,

Thanks for your reply and the questions.

I wish to confirm that my home station does not have an open ticket office, however at the time there had been another ticket machine on platform 1 which was working at the time.

I hope this helps satisfy your question.

Many thanks.

Cowboy96

 

[Haywain]

before I got onto the train at ELR I realised that I had forgotten my disabled pass.

If i knew at the time of boarding that i hadn't had it with me,

Which of these is actually true - they contradict each other and affect the advice we give you?

 

[gray1404]

Dear gray1404,

Thanks for your reply and the questions.

I wish to confirm that my home station does not have an open ticket office, however at the time there had been another ticket machine on platform 1 which was working at the time.

I hope this helps satisfy your question.

Many thanks.

Cowboy96

It looks like you encountered the ticket machine that Northern have reported as not working. Unless you're disability prevents you from using the ticket purchasing facilities that Northern did provide on the other platform, you should have used the other ticket machine.

However it is worth clarifying if you're disability may have made it difficult to use the ticket machine.

However, given the notice that Northern have on their own Journey Check website there is nothing stopping you appealing on that basis - that the ticket machine was not working - and attaching a copy as it may result in your appeal being upheld.

If your appeal is rejected you could appeal a second and third time. At the third appeal you could ask them to consider other mitigating circumstances (compelling reasons can only be considered at the third appeal) such as the fact that you hold a disabled pass.

 

[ChrisT]

Dear cowboy96

You have provided some good information now. Well done. The only weak point is the availability of another (working) ticket machine and whether you had time to use it.

I would suggest something along the lines of the following:

"I am in receipt of a Penalty Notice dated 28th October 2024 at 13.14 against which I would like to appeal. The facts are as follows:

1. I arrived at Elsecar station at [Time] in order to catch the [Time] train to Barnsley. I do not usually buy a ticket as I have a disabled pass no. [XXXXX] (attachment 1) which entitles me to free travel but on this occasion I realised that I had forgotten it. I tried to buy a ticket at the machine on platform 1 but this was out of action as confirmed by your Northern Journey Check page (attachment 2).

2. By this time it was [Time] and the train was almost due. I did not have time to get to the other machine on platform 2? especially with my disability. (I trust this is a true and accurate statement).

3. I boarded the train hoping to buy a ticket from the conductor but he did not appear during the ten minute journey with the result that I arrived at Barnsley with no ticket.

On the basis that:
a) I am a disabled passenger who is entitled to free travel but forgot his pass and,
b) that the ticket machine I tried at Elsecar was out of action and I did not have time to/could not use the other machine,
I appeal this penalty notice on which I hope you will look favourably."

How does that sound?

 

[gray1404]

I actually would not mention the second machine. I am hoping this appeal gets upheld on the basis of the message of the Northern website

 

[Haywain]

How does that sound?

Can I refer you to post #8? We await an answer from the OP to an important question, and your suggested latter includes a contradiction that is unlikely to help.

 

[ChrisT]

I actually would not mention the second machine. I am hoping this appeal gets upheld on the basis of the message of the Northern website

The Northern Check page does talk about "machines" (plural) and it would certainly make the argument cleaner. Easy to do - just omit paragraph 2 and renumber 3 as 2.

 

[AlterEgo]

And am I correct in thinking people with disabilities are permitted greater leeway with regard to not being required to use a ticket machine anyway.

Only if their disability makes the facilities inaccessible. I have a Disabled Railcard but can access all railway purchase facilities and must buy before I board.

 

[fandroid]

Yes, I think the appeal should be simply based on the lack of ticket buying facilities at Elsecar with the Northern website screenshot attached as evidence. Also attach the relevant NRCOT paragraphs (or is it bylaws, or both) which allow boarding if no ticket buying facilities are available. Don't mention your pass or disability at this stage. Keep it very simple, as you adhered to all rules that apply for buying tickets and boarding trains.

Others should be able to help by quoting the exact official wordings to use

 

[cowboy96]

Dear Friends,

It's been busy so thought i would reply now as i have a moment.

Which of these is actually true - they contradict each other and affect the advice we give you?

My apologies - my brain goes south sometimes which i end up writing something unconsciously and not realising it can have an affect.

before I got onto the train at ELR I realised that I had forgotten my disabled pass.

This one above is true.

I will flag to a moderator to remove the contradicting statement as i can't edit it.

Thanks.

Kind Regards,

Cowboy96

 

[gray1404]

Post a copy of your first appeal here and we will help you with the drafting before you send it in.

 

[cowboy96]

First appeal draft:

Dear Penalty Services LTD (Northern Railway Limited),

I am in receipt of a penalty notice which was issued to me on 28th October 2025 at 1:14pm, I write this to inform you that I intend to appeal.

All relevant evidence required has been attached.

I wish to offer an account of what happened to support my appeal, please find that account below this sentence.

I arrived at Elsecar for 12:55pm in order to catch the 1:20pm train, the previous train at 12:50pm to Huddersfield was delayed which arrived at Elsecar for 1:04pm. I do not usually need to buy a ticket as I have a disabled pass which entitles me to free travel within South Yorkshire only but on this occasion before boarding I realised that I had forgotten it.

The ticket machine on Platform 2 at Elsecar was out of order so I was unable to buy a ticket, this was already reported on Northern’s journey check. I’ve also took the liberty to report the machine myself (Attachment image of the state of machine, northern’s journey check confirming it was out of order and attachment screenshot with my report’s reference number).

I boarded the train within the intention of buying a ticket from the conductor however, the conductor was did not appear during the ten minutes of my journey. This resulted in me arriving into Barnsley at 1:14pm with no ticket and an issuing of penalty notice against me.

As I was unable to get a ticket from the platform in Elsecar due to the machine being out of order, under The Railway (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 Section 6(2)(a) a penalty notice cannot be issued on this basis.

My grounds of appeal are:

1. I am a disabled passenger that is entitled to free travel within South Yorkshire but forgotten my pass.
2. The ticket machine on Platform 2 in ELR was broken which I’ve reported.
3. The penalty charge shouldn’t have been issued under The Railway (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 Section 6(2)(a) if Northern Railway LTD is aware of the machine being out of order.
4. The conductor on the train did not appear.

I trust that this appeal should satisfy you for consideration which I hope you will look at it in my favour.

Yours Sincerely,

Mr X

 

[ChrisT]

In the "I appeal..." section you might like to add the conductor did not appear. Otherwise it looks good.

 

[Titfield]

A better wording, and one often seen in records of appeals is:

My grounds of appeal are:

(then list the grounds of appeal in a numbered list)

 

[John R]

I would delete the last paragraph, unless you know exactly what you propose to do. You have a strong enough case without it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Use the full station names, not codes. Do not assume the appeal assessor will know which station you mean unless you write it out in full.

 

[cowboy96]

A better wording, and one often seen in records of appeals is:

My grounds of appeal are:

(then list the grounds of appeal in a numbered list)

I would delete the last paragraph, unless you know exactly what you propose to do. You have a strong enough case without it.

Use the full station names, not codes. Do not assume the appeal assessor will know which station you mean unless you write it out in full.

In the "I appeal..." section you might like to add the conductor did not appear. Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks for replying with the suggestions, i've edited the appeal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do want to ask one question though - on my notice it says no account will be taken at any time on appeal, would this mean the clock would still tick for me to pay this notice? I'm thinking about paying after i've appealed, if i was to do this and my appeal was successful would i be refunded?

 

[John R]

It means the clock stops when the appeal is submitted until a decision is made.

Yes, if your appeal is successful you will be refunded. Though it might be more hassle, as I recall in one case the train operating company had to ask for bank details, which all takes time.