fine or prosecution?

[Livvy]

I was travelling Preston to Wigan.
I was late so planned to buy a ticket on the train, but then no guard came round so I didn't get one before getting off.
I was stopped by guards at Wigan station. I looked in my pockets for any potential still valid ticket but they were old ones which the guard still checked. Then in my panic I told them I had a weekly pass that I had left at home. This wasn't true.

They said when I get a letter send a photo of my weekly pass and it will be fine. But I don't have one.
The letter says: "you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff in relation to an alleged contravention of Railway Regulations. An evidential report has been submitted to this office regarding this incident. Before the Company proceeds further with its investigations in respect of this matter, we would like to give you the opportunity of responding with your explanation concerning it."

And they ask me to write back saying what happened.
I am very worried about the outcome. If I explain that I was in a rush and needed to buy one on the train but couldn't, then panicked and lied about having a weekly pass, do you think they will just issue me a fine? Friends tell me I'm silly thinking it could go to court but is that a possibility? Do you know of any similar situations and their outcomes?

 

[AM9]

The company cannot issue a 'fine'. Only a court can do that.

 

[robbeech]

You’ll need to write back explaining you were late and did not buy a ticket. It’s up to you whether you mention the weekly ticket thing again, if they haven’t mentioned it then it may be sensible to not mention it again as you are in the wrong regardless. If they do mention it at a later date you’d be best to admit you were lying about it.

Do you have any mitigating circumstances? I guess not, I assume there were working ticketing facilities at your origin.

As for your friends views, they are misguided. This could very well end up in court so you are right to be concerned but there is no need to panic too much, these things can often be settled out of court so in your reply consider this.

Reading through many posts in this section of the forum should give you a better understanding of what may happen next.

To summarise, your reply to them should be to the point and contain

*Your intentions on the day
*The reason you didn’t buy a ticket
*Any mitigation (I see none here really)
*An apology for this behaviour and action
*An offer to pay the full fare due and any associated costs that the operator has incurred to this point.
*Assurance it will not happen again.

 

[Livvy]

how is this as a response to the letter:

I was travelling to work from Preston to Wigan, and usually either buy a ticket online before or at the station, however this day I was running late, and as I have done previously intended to buy my ticket on the train so I didn’t miss it. This day was busy and I didn’t see a guard to buy a ticket from.

Ive never been in this situation so getting stopped by the guards at wigan panicked me. I looked in my pockets just in case I had an open return that may still be valid as I often get these as work can be irregular. I didn’t have one but they still looked at the old tickets id got out my pockets which weren’t valid anymore. I don’t have a weekly pass to show either.

I am very sorry for my actions and I have now been ensuring to buy tickets the night before travel so even if late I dont have to worry. This will not happen again I can assure you.

I am willing to fully cooperate and pay a penalty fare or whatever the associated costs may be to get this dealt with.

 

[robbeech]

I don’t think you need to include the bit about checking for unused tickets and stating you don’t have a weekly ticket also seems irrelevant to the story.
This won’t be dealt with by way of a penalty fare so you should possibly state “I am happy to pay the full fare due plus any additional costs you have incurred”

You will also need to consider whether claiming you’ve bought tickets on the train before helps or hinders you. It’s a fine balance really. The argument for it helping you is that it shows inconsistency in guard behaviour but this would only really prove relevant if you’d been stopped and referred for prosecution by the guard. As you didn’t see the guard then realistically this could be seen as justification for the prosecution. Indeed, claiming you have done it before could brand you as a regular fare evader*

*I appreciate you’re not, and that you buy tickets but you would be admitting breaking the rules on previous occasions by including this comment.

 

[Livvy]

I only mentioned about looking for unused tickets and not having a weekly pass because I know the guard at wigan detailed these things in the report so they will know this information.

I agree about mentioning having bought on the train previously. thank you that is helpful.

 

[robbeech]

I only mentioned about looking for unused tickets and not having a weekly pass because I know the guard at wigan detailed these things in the report so they will know this information.

I agree about mentioning having bought on the train previously. thank you that is helpful.

If it is mentioned in the report from their end there’s no need (in my opinion) to mention it again from your end unless you disagree with how they have worded it. It seems this isn’t the case, as such I don’t think it needs to be included at all. Ultimately you’re not trying to deny you’ve done wrong so you’re not looking for excuses, just the ability to accept, apologise, and settle the matter promptly and out of court.

 

[Livvy]

Ok thank you. So you think say I didn't have time to buy a ticket before, apologise and say it won't happen again.
Then say I will pay any costs so it's settled asap?

 

[Livvy]

I really appreciate the help as it's seriously stressing me out! I am not used to this.

 

[Livvy]

Also my worry is they're expecting me to send a photo of the weekly pass, they don't know I lied about it yet. this is why I thought of mentioning it but maybe you're right just to leave it out

 

[robbeech]

What makes you think they’re expecting a photo of the weekly pass? Have they mentioned the weekly pass in their letter to you?

 

[scrapy]

Which companies train did you travel with, and do you know which companies revenue team took your details?

The reason I'm asking is that if it was Northern (or possibly TPE if recent) I would have expected a penalty fare to have been issued at the time given the circumstances described above. If a TIR was filled in then they may have reason to suspect more intent to avoid payment. Avanti don't operate a penalty fares scheme.

Just to add all 3 operators between Lancaster, Preston and Wigan (and on Avanti to Warrington) have cottoned on to the fact many just pay when challenged and more revenue blocks expected soon. Wigan and Warrington will also be gated soon.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I must say I was quite surprised on my recent and only ever journey via Wigan NW to find there were no barriers. I am not surprised that there would be revenue checks there, and barriers installed in the near future.

 

[Livvy]

it was Avanti I think. They didn't mention anything about it in the letter, all they said was an incident was reported and this is your chance to explain. They guard I spoke to at the time said when you get the letter send in a photo of your weekly pass to confirm my story.
They took the old tickets I showed them and made me sign them and then wrote out a paragraph I think about what had happened on a machine and gave me a receipt.
So I imagine the report says I tried to get away with invalid tickets and then claimed to have a weekly pass at home.
I had 3 old tickets in my pocket and 2 were stuck together which they were very suspicious of. It was only because they had been in my pocket for a while they had got stuck.

 

[NSB2017]

I may be a cynic, but would imagine they assumed you didn't really have a weekly pass so I wouldn't reference that in your reply to their letter if they haven't mentioned it in your letter.

Probably best replying as though you were "simply" caught without a valid ticket. State you were late, you've bought on train before and you are willing to pay the fare and an amount (for them to determine) to cover their administration and investigation costs.

 

[bb21]

If you mentioned to the inspector you left your season ticket at home, expect it included in the report, so not mentioning it in your response or sending in the allegedly valid season ticket may not work to your favour.

How you want to proceed is entirely up to you.

 

[robbeech]

Did you sign their report to confirm it was accurate? (I'm not suggesting it wasn't accurate)

 

[Bertie the bus]

Advice given to not mention the weekly pass just seems wrong. The OP received a standard letter asking for their version of events. Just pretending they didn't lie about having a ticket isn't the best strategy if they want to avoid a prosecution. It was an attempt at deliberate fare evasion after all. Maybe not in the first instance but the lie about having a weekly ticket made it so,