Fine help needed please!

[aidanmcdonagh]

So i basically didnt have the money to pay for a full adult ticket after a festival and so bought a childs ticket and was stopped and had to give a statement to the "train manager" and he said i would receive a fine along side having to pay for the adult ticket which is understandable but i have not received any form of letter and it has been 16 days since but nothing has come. Could anyone give me some advice on what to do?

 

[bb21]

We can give advice, but not without any details of your case.

 

[Flamingo]

Some advice before the letter arrives - change your username to something less identifable...

 

[Fare-Cop]

So i basically didnt have the money to pay for a full adult ticket after a festival and so bought a childs ticket and was stopped and had to give a statement to the "train manager" and he said i would receive a fine along side having to pay for the adult ticket which is understandable but i have not received any form of letter and it has been 16 days since but nothing has come. Could anyone give me some advice on what to do?

As said, some detail will be needed:

1. Are you over 18 years of age?
2. Which train company were you travelling with?
3. Have you been reported or had a penalty fare in the past?

The offices that deal with these matters are often very busy and it can take a month or more for a first letter to be sent in many cases

 

[aidanmcdonagh]

i have recently turned 18, it was national rail station and i had an on the stop fine in the past no letter fines though. How do i change my username aswell?

 

[tixy]

Basically what we need from you is:-

• Where traveled from,
• Where traveled to
• Did he hand you a PFN (some like to call it a £20 fine, yet it is in fact a fare)
• Did the "train manager" just take your details and tell you there will be a letter, or did he caution you? (the caution is similar to what you hear after being arrested, and although in your case you would have not been arrested you may have been cautioned)
• What questions were asked at the interview? did he ask if you deliberately try to avoid your correct fare by buying a child ticket?

All this is important, to advise on, as we can have an idea on how the your case will progress, please note however some TOCs can take up to a month to process letters.

 

[Fare-Cop]

i have recently turned 18, it was national rail station and i had an on the stop fine in the past no letter fines though. How do i change my username aswell?

OK, you are considered to be adult, I asked which rail company because some have different first action policies to others.

I assume by saying 'an on the stop fine in the past' you mean that you have previously been caught without a ticket and paid a penalty fare?

If you don't know which rail company you were travelling with tell us where you travelled from and to and what time of day and that may mean users will perhaps be able to offer useful suggestion.

National Rail isn't an operating company, it is a general term describing the overground railways as a whole

 

[CC 72100]

If you don't know which rail company you were travelling with tell us where you travelled from and to and what time of day and that may mean users will perhaps be able to offer useful suggestion.

I'm gonna make a tentative guess at FGW - Reading festival is August bank holiday which would tie in.

Of course, until the OP comes back, we can't help them. Although if they're saying that they've been PFed before this incident, I'm not sure whether lessons are being learnt....

 

[Flamingo]

IoW has just been as well...

 

[aidanmcdonagh]

i was travelling from reading to potters bar from after the festival, he didnt hand me a pfn, he took my details and read me my rights kinda thing, he asked for my address, reason for doing it, optional statement which i wrote an apology for doing it. im not sure what rail company it was.

 

[tixy]

I'm guessing it was before your change at Paddington, or after you got on at Kings Cross? as there is no direct service from reading to potters bar and would have to travel through london?

This looks like a clear cut Regulation of Railways Act 1889, Section 5 offence. I'm guessing that you gave him an admission of intending to not pay for your ticket.

I would start saving now. at the least you are looking at £100 - £200 + the cost of the fare if they offer to settle out of court, If not and you are convicted, the fine could be much higher, and the conviction would show on a DBS (formally CRB) check

TOC's are generally swift at processing offences, but can take up to 2 months before your letter drops on your doorstep. This will be a letter of intended prosecution. Basically they are giving you the opportunity to further have your say, before deciding what course of action they will take.

At this point i would probably grovel. Apologise again for your actions, that this has scared you into always purchasing a ticket in the future and if there was anything he could do to rectify things, You have pretty much admitted it and apologised during your interview with the inspector.

One would ask though how you got through London and the other part of your journey?

 

[Chapeltom]

Apologies if I'm confused unnecessarily but I can't make heads or tails of this. So were you stopped on a train or at I presume Reading or London Paddington (which is a Network Rail station) or elsewhere?

 

[Clip]

Apologies if I'm confused unnecessarily but I can't make heads or tails of this. So were you stopped on a train or at I presume Reading or London Paddington (which is a Network Rail station) or elsewhere?

Must have been on the train to Paddibngton as they said they were stopped by the train manager.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If the OP is not mistaken about that will it just be a UFN? I think one of our resident FGW TMs has previously commented about not being able to do MG11s

 

[tixy]

he took my details and read me my rights kinda thing, he asked for my address, reason for doing it, optional statement which i wrote an apology for doing it.

It must have been a FCC RCO then, I've never heard of cautioning for a UFN

 

[swt_passenger]

Must have been on the train to Paddibngton as they said they were stopped by the train manager.

I have some doubts. Normally when people say they were 'stopped' by someone, they are not actually on a train. To be stopped surely you have to be the one moving along somewhere, such as at a barrier line?

 

[Clip]

I have some doubts. Normally when people say they were 'stopped' by someone, they are not actually on a train. To be stopped surely you have to be the one moving along somewhere, such as at a barrier line?

Im only going on what has been written by the OP.

Theres lots of detail lacking that its hard for anyone to pass comment really.

 

[tixy]

We may have to wait for the OP to get back to us with all the detail as to which station or train he was stopped at, however its looking more like a FCC RCO, maybe on a gateline than a train. Anyway regardless of the TOC, this looks like a clear cut Sect 5 offence.

 

[TheEdge]

Must have been on the train to Paddibngton as they said they were stopped by the train manager.

If the OP is not mistaken about that will it just be a UFN? I think one of our resident FGW TMs has previously commented about not being able to do MG11s

It must have been a FCC RCO then, I've never heard of cautioning for a UFN

Although as this was Reading weekend it quite possibly might have been a FGW RPI/RCO/MTSO (or whatever FGW acronym for them is!) covering the extra passengers from the Festival.

 

[Flamingo]

Although as this was Reading weekend it quite possibly might have been a FGW RPI/RCO/MTSO (or whatever FGW acronym for them is!) covering the extra passengers from the Festival.

That's what my money is on.

 

[aidanmcdonagh]

i was travelling from reading to paddington then paddington to kings cross then kings cross to potters bar and was stopped at reading station with my ticket before even getting on the train as they used restrictions on the barriers to purposely stop any child tickets

 

[6Gman]

i was travelling from reading to potters bar from after the festival, he didnt hand me a pfn, he took my details and read me my rights kinda thing, he asked for my address, reason for doing it, optional statement which i wrote an apology for doing it. im not sure what rail company it was.

Wait for the letter.

Expect to grovel.

Expect to have to pay a substantial sum (if lucky) for an out-of-court settlement.

 

[TheEdge]

Expect to have to pay a substantial sum (if lucky) for an out-of-court settlement.

There lots of talk of out of court settlements. The OP has already mentioned they've received a PF in the past. Surely if the TOC notices this the chance of and out of court settlement is somewhat diminished?

 

[najaB]

There lots of talk of out of court settlements. The OP has already mentioned they've received a PF in the past. Surely if the TOC notices this the chance of and out of court settlement is somewhat diminished?

Only (a) if they took the OP's details at the time, and (b) it is the same TOC. Since it was described as an 'on the spot fine', I think (a) may not be true.

 

[Squaddie]

i was travelling from reading to paddington then paddington to kings cross then kings cross to potters bar and was stopped at reading station with my ticket before even getting on the train as they used restrictions on the barriers to purposely stop any child tickets

Despite the fact that you admit to a deliberate attempt to avoid payment of the correct fare, and that you have been caught at least once before, there are members of this forum who will be willing to advise you how to maximise your chances of negotiating an out-of-court settlement. But you, in turn, have to provide a clear and complete account of the incident and answer the questions that have been asked - drip-feeding information in this way isn't very helpful.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Despite the fact that you admit to a deliberate attempt to avoid payment of the correct fare, and that you have been caught at least once before, there are members of this forum who will be willing to advise you how to maximise your chances of negotiating an out-of-court settlement.

I'd like to point out, for the benefit of the forum members who feel that this is unfair on their employer, that this is the scenario that maximises revenue for the TOCs. Court-imposed fines go to the treasury, and victim surcharges to various charities. Prosecution costs are just that: the reimbursement of costs, and not a profit stream. Out of court settlements, however, are kept by the TOCs, and entirely at their discretion - they could always choose to prosecute instead.

aidanmcdonagh has been very well advised by Squaddie.

 

[tixy]

I agree with squaddie too, although he has been pf'd in the past, I think maybe the reality of prosecution has scared the "bejesies" out of him, maybe he has learned the hard way. It is down to FGW to decide the course of action now, all that we can really advise is once the letter comes, write something really apologetic, that the scare has taught him a lesson as to the seriousness of what he has done and that he would be prepared to deal with this how ever the TOC feels fit ( without exactly suggesting a settlement as that's for them to offer). The only other thing I would advise is that FGW may take this to court, to offer a settlement on the day, so have access to cash on the day. It may mean the difference and shows you are serious about settling.

 

[Flamingo]

I'd like to point out, for the benefit of the forum members who feel that this is unfair on their employer, that this is the scenario that maximises revenue for the TOCs. Court-imposed fines go to the treasury, and victim surcharges to various charities. Prosecution costs are just that: the reimbursement of costs, and not a profit stream. Out of court settlements, however, are kept by the TOCs, and entirely at their discretion - they could always choose to prosecute instead.

aidanmcdonagh has been very well advised by Squaddie.

As an employee of the TOC involved, thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to explain all this to me. It's always useful when the big picture is explained to us in terms that us minions at the coal-face can understand.

Now, if I can intrude on your valuable intellect a bit further, can you tell me how big a hole I need to put in each end of the egg, and exactly how hard do I need to suck? :roll:

 

[talltim]

Are you his grandmother?

 

[6Gman]

Are you his grandmother?

Beat me to it!