The popular file sharing site megaupload.com has been shut down, and it's founders being charged with violating piracy laws. Thoughts?
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File sharing site shut down - the day after SOPA & PIPA blackouts
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SS4
Established Member
I've found many legitimate uploads on that site but I have no doubt it would have been used for pirated software too.
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What I find more troublesome is that a Hong Kong firm, with it's founders in New Zealand can have action taken against them by the US
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What I find more troublesome is that a Hong Kong firm, with it's founders in New Zealand can have action taken against them by the US
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
It is noticeable that the USA, whilst weilding so much legalistic power, has to rely on the Chinese to fund itself as a nation. Perhaps a financial reality check is called for.
As business moves increasingly onto the internet, it's no surprise that there are tighter laws to protect intellectual property. Sites like megauploads regularly host pirated software and make money out of the privilege.
Intellectual property and copyright is essential to Western Capitalist economies. Without bits of paper to to enable the reward of people for their creations and hard work, whether that be books, film, music, computer software, inventions, and so on you are left with a 'free-for all'.
If someone puts in years of hard work into something, why shouldn't they get income? The same as anyone else working as a Train driver, Doctor, Shop assistant and so on.
What gives others the right to take that away from them without their consent? On that basis if someone works for 20 years to buy a house, you might as well tear up any agreement they own it, and have an 'open access' agreement for everyone else to visit them when they feel like it.
It's not just 'big business' that gets ripped off (which is commonly put around by people somewhat naive to the situation) there are many smaller businesses that have to lay people off because of these sorts of activities. This means less jobs, less tax to pay for services you and I want.
You might as well have a central government controlling the production of everything and sending everyone a cheque once in a while similar to Soviet Russia. A repressive system that doesn't allow people to make the most of their talents and freely engage with the public within a framework of law to improve the lot of themselves and their country, and produce products people want to buy.
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The UK and other countries have similar arrangements. Theft of IP right now is a big issue, not just reducing incomes from entertainment products, but theft of patents for products that affect the wellbeing and defence of nations.
Intellectual property and copyright is essential to Western Capitalist economies. Without bits of paper to to enable the reward of people for their creations and hard work, whether that be books, film, music, computer software, inventions, and so on you are left with a 'free-for all'.
If someone puts in years of hard work into something, why shouldn't they get income? The same as anyone else working as a Train driver, Doctor, Shop assistant and so on.
What gives others the right to take that away from them without their consent? On that basis if someone works for 20 years to buy a house, you might as well tear up any agreement they own it, and have an 'open access' agreement for everyone else to visit them when they feel like it.
It's not just 'big business' that gets ripped off (which is commonly put around by people somewhat naive to the situation) there are many smaller businesses that have to lay people off because of these sorts of activities. This means less jobs, less tax to pay for services you and I want.
You might as well have a central government controlling the production of everything and sending everyone a cheque once in a while similar to Soviet Russia. A repressive system that doesn't allow people to make the most of their talents and freely engage with the public within a framework of law to improve the lot of themselves and their country, and produce products people want to buy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The UK and other countries have similar arrangements. Theft of IP right now is a big issue, not just reducing incomes from entertainment products, but theft of patents for products that affect the wellbeing and defence of nations.
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TheJRB
Established Member
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the mass of jobs being lost because of piracy.
It's true that we all want to see people making money on their work, but what we don't want, is to be treated as though we are all evil pirates. Yes some people are, but you can't act upon the minority when there are serious ramifications for the rest of us.
As has been pointed out here already, there are a number of people who may illegally acquire certain assets, later to purchase them legally. I wouldn't do or condone that, but it's almost certainly true.
It is sad that the US government (just the same as if it were any other government) has so much control over the rest of the world and where it's most scary is extradition as has been seen in recent months.
The thing we need to question here is what the incentives were for the members of the US congress, as they certainly weren't doing it for the vast majority of their population.
It's true that we all want to see people making money on their work, but what we don't want, is to be treated as though we are all evil pirates. Yes some people are, but you can't act upon the minority when there are serious ramifications for the rest of us.
As has been pointed out here already, there are a number of people who may illegally acquire certain assets, later to purchase them legally. I wouldn't do or condone that, but it's almost certainly true.
It is sad that the US government (just the same as if it were any other government) has so much control over the rest of the world and where it's most scary is extradition as has been seen in recent months.
The thing we need to question here is what the incentives were for the members of the US congress, as they certainly weren't doing it for the vast majority of their population.
It's not a case of them having power over the rest of the world, it's not as cut and dried as to say they just clicked their fingers and this action was suddenly brought on MU.
A lot of the content was apparently stored on servers based in Kentucky which in turn meant that the relevant requests could be made as at least part of the offence was on US soil.
It's still a bit galling though, many people use MU for entirely legitimate means, I have used it for both sharing beta's of software to enable free and easy distribution to the testers and also as a means of temporary storage when I needed it. To see that all of this legitimacy is potentially wiped out is pretty annoying.
Yes, I know people who had a paid subscription to use it for storing their personal files. Much like Dropbox. Speaking of paid subscription, will those people get their money back?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Sony DVD players have been used to play pirated DVDs. Let's ban all Sony DVD players and shut down Sony.
It's not the file sharing sites the US government should be going after, it's the people who upload the illegal content.
It's not the file sharing sites the US government should be going after, it's the people who upload the illegal content.
I think this is why we haven't seen many other popular file sharing websites taken down. It was because MU was actively promoting and advertising (I believe) using their site illegitimately. I suppose this is just as/almost as bad as the ones who upload the content.
It just so happens that MU did their best ever deals only a couple of weeks ago, offering two years premium for the price of one etc. It's quite obvious that they knew what was coming as even before the official shutdown, they had made statements about ludicrous claims against them.
Put two and two together and that certainly looks like they took as much as they could before they were closed. Whether that can be given back, I am not sure.
The USA likes to see itself as the world's policeman. There is the movie title "Team America World Police". That's how the USA sees itself.
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Apart from the area of derivative works and parodies, which is an issue in itself (it is said that you can't copyright just an idea) there aren't that many jobs lost through piracy - if any at all.
The issue with "jobs" is the traditional, over-bloated way of making films and so on, as well as the fact that it assumes that the public values their product enough to pay for them. Not all of us do, though. So, the only opportunities that are lost are those from where a sale would have taken place - and if someone rips something off where they view it as overpriced or just don't have the money, that "sale" never existed. All that happens is some greedy rights owner with star signs in their eyes.
As for the US Congress, the incentives are another matter ("buying") but if their local electorate is opposed then they may have to think twice.
Oh, and don't get me going about British people being expected to suffer and even die for American interests...
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Really? The OECD reckons it amounts to several hundred billion dollars per year worldwide, that's the same size as the US miltary, or enough to pay for the NHS several times over, or build HS2 many times over. That's a fair amount of jobs and tax. In the UK 800,000 people work in the creative sector, or 7% of GDP. Several times more than the Airline industry creates, and many times more the Rail industry does.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/13/12/38707619.pdf
Copyright theft is depriving businesses of up to 1/5th of their income, and a 1/4 of a million jobs could be at risk in the UK alone. Twice the number of people that work in the Rail industry.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/ipreview-c4e-sub-ccc.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/05/how_damaging_is_illegal_filesh.html
This may be true, but it doesn't give people the right to steal things. The same as if I think you earn too much, I can come into your house and take what I like because I think you are greedy or dock your wages.
SS4
Established Member
Proponents of SOPA and PIPA as well as the DMCA and other digital restriction laws have created a false equivalence whereby their laws will only affect pirates and everything will be rosy. The biggest false equivalence is that for each "unit" of content illegally download is equal to one lost sale. :roll:
Like religious preaching this teaching is taken by the masses as Universal Truth not to be questioned despite a lack of supporting evidence.
If anything it goes a long way to show the powers granted by SOPA and PIPA are not necessary and existing laws cover it. Fighting the pirates is similar to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; successes can be had but world opinion will harden against you and it will be near impossible to win
The large companies have long been unable to secure convictions for illegal file sharing presumably due to lack of evidence but instead of trying to build a case they want to change the law so they don't need proof to secure their aims - therein lies the dangerous precedent. It takes a very strong government to relinquish powers once it is given to them.
The media have been very manipulative in shifting the blame onto the end user and not highlighting their own ludicrous restrictions. For example have you any idea how difficult it is to get the "Windows Tax" refunded on a new computer? DRM makes piracy more attractive since, understandably, people want to be able to roughly whatever they like with their product - once paid it's not their business what I do with it!
Retarded software patents in the states have led to patent squatting and patent trolling - most notably Apple who steal everyone else's ideas, patent them and use them to troll other manufacturers.
Is it acceptable to illegally download a backup copy of something you'd paid for but the company will not let you access what you paid for?
Like religious preaching this teaching is taken by the masses as Universal Truth not to be questioned despite a lack of supporting evidence.
If anything it goes a long way to show the powers granted by SOPA and PIPA are not necessary and existing laws cover it. Fighting the pirates is similar to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; successes can be had but world opinion will harden against you and it will be near impossible to win
The large companies have long been unable to secure convictions for illegal file sharing presumably due to lack of evidence but instead of trying to build a case they want to change the law so they don't need proof to secure their aims - therein lies the dangerous precedent. It takes a very strong government to relinquish powers once it is given to them.
The media have been very manipulative in shifting the blame onto the end user and not highlighting their own ludicrous restrictions. For example have you any idea how difficult it is to get the "Windows Tax" refunded on a new computer? DRM makes piracy more attractive since, understandably, people want to be able to roughly whatever they like with their product - once paid it's not their business what I do with it!
Retarded software patents in the states have led to patent squatting and patent trolling - most notably Apple who steal everyone else's ideas, patent them and use them to troll other manufacturers.
Is it acceptable to illegally download a backup copy of something you'd paid for but the company will not let you access what you paid for?
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