Fife Rail Electrification/Decarbonisation

[Mordac]

I still don't understand the point of this work. Is this all for a handful of LNER trains per day?

 

[zwk500]

I still don't understand the point of this work. Is this all for a handful of LNER trains per day?

The ultimate output is for a Scotrail Battery-EMU fleet to take over the Edinburgh Commuter services. Scotrail have started the procurement process but haven't yet got anywhere near signing contracts so it'll be several years before the DMUs are actually replaced.

 

[John R]

I still don't understand the point of this work. Is this all for a handful of LNER trains per day?

No, it’s the first stage of the wider Fife electrification. The benefit for LNER is a consequence, but not the purpose. Though it’s good that some use will be made of it until BEMUs are available.

 

[Highlander1]

I still don't understand the point of this work. Is this all for a handful of LNER trains per day?

Sorry, what part of it don't you understand? It's electrification work. In the short term LNER will be using it. In the longer term the new fleet of bi-mode trains for Scotrail will be using it. There are threads on the subject of the fleet renewal process.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

------ It's electrification work. In the short term LNER will be using it. In the longer term the new fleet of bi-mode trains for Scotrail will be using it.

And IMHO, any electrification whatsoever is good.

 

[BorderCollie]

Lots of people assuming LNER will use it - is this confirmed? For the sake of five minutes under the wires, continuing with a stationary changeover during the scheduled HYM stop may be more likely to continue?

 

[Carntyne]

Lots of people assuming LNER will use it - is this confirmed? For the sake of five minutes under the wires, continuing with a stationary changeover during the scheduled HYM stop may be more likely to continue?

Why wouldn't they use it? Of course they will.

 

[TrainViation]

Why wouldn't they use it? Of course they will.

I know of one exception for LNER not using wires, and that is at Dunblane. Even on Sunday (31st May 2026), after making a once-weekly scheduled stop there on its way down to Kings Cross, it departed on diesel, despite there being wires available from then on, and presumably changing at Stirling.

 

[najaB]

I know of one exception for LNER not using wires, and that is at Dunblane. Even on Sunday (31st May 2026), after making a once-weekly scheduled stop there on its way down to Kings Cross, it departed on diesel, despite there being wires available from then on, and presumably changing at Stirling.

I guess precisely because it's only once a week, so it makes sense to maintain consistency.

 

[BorderCollie]

Where does the Highland Chieftan change mode? If it is indeed Striling then LNER do not change over on the move anywhere on the network. I would imagine that is a whole admin/safety case/driver training/paperwork complete hassle. That's the reason 8 miles of potential wire scraping won't be happening.

 

[Riverside Redz]

Where does the Highland Chieftan change mode? If it is indeed Striling then LNER do not change over on the move anywhere on the network. I would imagine that is a whole admin/safety case/driver training/paperwork complete hassle. That's the reason 8 miles of potential wire scraping won't be happening.

They change on the move at Northallerton on the Middlesbrough services or certainly did when they used the avoiders pre December 25

 

[zwk500]

They change on the move at Northallerton on the Middlesbrough services or certainly did when they used the avoiders pre December 25

Northallerton has APCO (Automatic Power Change Over) installed. Will the new Scottish electrification also have APCO?

 

[TrainViation]

They change on the move at Northallerton on the Middlesbrough services or certainly did when they used the avoiders pre December 25

Would they also not change power on the move on the Aberdeen - Leeds service when they run through Church Fenton?

 

[mcmad]

There are already APCO fitted at Dunblane and Haymarket

 

[takno]

Northallerton has APCO (Automatic Power Change Over) installed. Will the new Scottish electrification also have APCO?

Presumably the battery EMUs will need to know when to change over to battery once they come into service. You'd want APCO for that wouldn't you?

 

[zwk500]

Presumably the battery EMUs will need to know when to change over to battery once they come into service. You'd want APCO for that wouldn't you?

APCO is obviously preferable but you could just have a 'pan down' and 'pan up' board and let the driver manage it.

 

[BorderCollie]

They change on the move at Northallerton on the Middlesbrough services or certainly did when they used the avoiders pre December 25

ta! Did not know that. That must be the only one, unless there is an LNER service from York to Leeds still (or vice versa) and they switch at Church Fenton as suggested above. I have been diverted around Lincoln before southbound and switchover was in Doncaster station despite a few miles of knitting to the south at Black Carr.

 

[Highlander1]

Would they also not change power on the move on the Aberdeen - Leeds service when they run through Church Fenton?

There is no longer an Aberdeen to Leeds service.

 

[Mordac]

Sorry, what part of it don't you understand? It's electrification work. In the short term LNER will be using it. In the longer term the new fleet of bi-mode trains for Scotrail will be using it. There are threads on the subject of the fleet renewal process.

Well I don't understand why there is no fleet order to use these. They've been going on about these bi-modes for years with no sign of an order.

 

[Morayshire]

Because the wheels of government grind exceedingly slow especially where Transport Scotland are concerned.

Not to mention the Scottish budget is legally obliged to balance so they cannot procure new trains when they ain't got the budget to do so because its being spent elsewhere.

 

[N1]

Because the wheels of government grind exceedingly slow especially where Transport Scotland are concerned.

Not to mention the Scottish budget is legally obliged to balance so they cannot procure new trains when they ain't got the budget to do so because its being spent elsewhere.

True, although Scottish Government due to issue bonds this financial year 26/27.

 

[ajwffc]

Where does the Highland Chieftan change mode? If it is indeed Striling then LNER do not change over on the move anywhere on the network. I would imagine that is a whole admin/safety case/driver training/paperwork complete hassle. That's the reason 8 miles of potential wire scraping won't be happening.

Just north of Bridge of Allan is the APOC point

 

[zwk500]

Well I don't understand why there is no fleet order to use these. They've been going on about these bi-modes for years with no sign of an order.

It takes a long time to procure trains, because these are very high-value contracts with major risks to all parties concerned. See the Ireland new Enterprise fleet order for an idea of what's at stake.

The procurement notice was issued on November 5 for the ScotRail BEMUs, but it could take until Spring of 2028 to select a preferred supplier: https://www.railbusinessuk.com/uk-2...battery-and-electric-train-fleet-procurement/

Procurement timeline  ​

The procurement notice issued on November 5 follows on from a market engagement exercise with potential suppliers which was undertaken earlier this year.

Requests to participate are required by January 19 2026, with invitations to tender expected to be issued to selected candidates on July 17 2026 and bids required to be valid until April 28 2028.

 

[DesDobramento]

There are already APCO fitted at Dunblane and Haymarket

A couple of recent northbound LNER trips north from Edinburgh have been on diesel on departure from there.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It takes a long time to procure trains, because these are very high-value contracts with major risks to all parties concerned. See the Ireland new Enterprise fleet order for an idea of what's at stake.

The procurement notice was issued on November 5 for the ScotRail BEMUs, but it could take until Spring of 2028 to select a preferred supplier: https://www.railbusinessuk.com/uk-2...battery-and-electric-train-fleet-procurement/

Lets hope Transport Scotland get their finger out and out perform the long stop date otherwise them wires are going to need polishing come the earl 2030s. Of course this is downside of discontinuous wiring as it now needs specialist stock to run under it.

 

[najaB]

Of course this is downside of discontinuous wiring as it now needs specialist stock to run under it.

Swings and roundabouts. Yes, only BEMUs can take full advantage of discontinuous electrification. But on the other hand, it means that a few "difficult" bits don't hold up electric operation of the "easy" bits.

 

[BorderCollie]

So the 'difficult bits' would take more than three/four years?!

 

[waverley47]

So the 'difficult bits' would take more than three/four years?!

Kinghorn Tunnel would take the best part of a couple of years on its own. The tunnel reboring took seven months, but that was after close to two years of ground investigations and preparations, and that was with a second tunnel to operate a single line working system.

For the duration of the seven months or so of reboring, you'd be closing completely the line down the coast from Kirkcaldy to Burntisland. There's no easy site access nearby, so that's bringing stuff in and out along the line some distance, which just slows down the overall works. The nearest building to Farnworth tunnel was about 25m away horizontally; there are buildings directly above the tunnel in Burntisland, and the occupants are not going to be very happy given what happened down south. Lastly but not lastly, there's a maze of mine workings, some undoubtedly very shallow, to be concerned about.

The whole process from agreeing to go for it, to a fully wired double track line, would be three years. Add on a year of site investigations and line blockages before the go/no go moment, and you may as well just start wiring the easy bits and sticking some batteries on your EMU order, and pushing the can down the road.

Forth & Tay bridges are both workable. Wires can be installed on both, although there is a real concern that the weight of the overhead conductor rail that would need to be installed over the Tay, given it's location and how exposed it is, would need strengthening if the bridge, which probably isn't a terrible idea anyway.

The duration of any such set of works however, would be astronomical. Just the logistics of getting everything and everyone onto and off the bridges safely would be an absolute nightmare. Try and mobilise one team in an overnight possession would be hard, trying to mobilise shifts over a weeklong possession say, would be ridiculous. Personally, I'd be doing it very slowly, and very safely, over years, but I'm not a OHLE engineer, and neither am I a civils man who's worked on the bridge.

If we have anyone who's worked on the bridge in the forum, it would be interesting to hear their perspective on how you'd actually go about mobilising the teams for wiring the thing.

 

[najaB]

Forth & Tay bridges are both workable. Wires can be installed on both, although there is a real concern that the weight of the overhead conductor rail that would need to be installed over the Tay, given it's location and how exposed it is, would need strengthening if the bridge, which probably isn't a terrible idea anyway.

I'd like to think that the Tay Bridge is in decent enough condition, given that it had a multi-year refurbishment not that long ago.

 

[Highlander1]

Well I don't understand why there is no fleet order to use these. They've been going on about these bi-modes for years with no sign of an order.

I would respond but others have beaten me to it. The procurement notice has been issued