FGW to convert First Class carriages

[387star]

FGW have carriage 'X' on some summer services too.

I had my first converted coach this morning, found it felt noticeably more spacious than usual with the extra tables - my second biggest gripe with FGW in standard is the cramped feeling from very high-backed seats plus very few tables, so it's promising if this is a taste of things to come.

exciting! pictures please

 

[The Ham]

Whilst I had my question as to whether it would be technically feasible to go to 9 coach answered (it is yes), no-one picked up on the point as to whether there are 54 spare Mark 3 carriages that could be used (knowing that buffets are indeed useable) to convert, especially with Chiltern converting more to their spec.

It's all very well to say "add more carriages", but in this case they have to already exist.

It maybe something that is seen as IEP comes online to provide a bit of a stop gap (as the coaches could be spare until IEP is fully delivered and would "just" be a case of an extra coach). Although if it were to ever happen it's likely to be on a few services a day to Plymouth post IEP.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Didn't realise they'd even done one yet!
What's the interior like is it similar to what they had already or have the colours been changed?

No it's exactly the same. The first set of tables are literally the second or third seats in the carriage! Most bizarre indeed.

Also, rather irritatingly, they do not line up the windows very well either!

 

[Starmill]

I'm booking a First Class trip from London to Cardiff for December, Advances seem to be available. I guess this means I've no chance at all of a refurbished set? How many ish are done now?

 

[455driver]

There are a few running around but its pot luck what you get.

 

[TEW]

I'm booking a First Class trip from London to Cardiff for December, Advances seem to be available. I guess this means I've no chance at all of a refurbished set? How many ish are done now?

Chances of getting a set with 1.5 First Class carriages is fairly high. A lot of sets have been done now, the majority of sets with a full buffet I would say. None of the sets with the Micro Buffets have had the First Class reduced yet as no composite vehicles have been delivered. The refurbishment on the First Class carriages is a separate project, which should be more advanced by December, but only a few vehicles have been refurbished so far.

 

[Goldfish62]

Looks like the reduction in 1st Class has been a bit of a disaster on the WoE services, s predicted by many staff. I hear that it's not unusual for full-fare paying passengers to be standing between Exeter and Reading.

What I'm told by a TM is that in order to overcome this all First Advance fares are shortly to be abolished on WoE services. Thus 1st to Devon and Cornwall will become the preserve of the wealthy and business people on expenses.

The futher decline of rail services in the far South West.

 

[Rapidash]

. Thus 1st to Devon and Cornwall will become the preserve of the wealthy and business people on expenses.

The futher decline of rail services in the far South West.

That's been the case of 1st on the HST's for a while now, atleast for me. I'm off to the big smoke in a months time, and even with booking 2 months in advance, it was still cheaper to get a return to Waterloo in 1st than a single to Paddington in standard.

I'm not a cheapskate, by any means. but I do blanch at the cost of that line.

 

[CC 72100]

Looks like the reduction in 1st Class has been a bit of a disaster on the WoE services, s predicted by many staff. I hear that it's not unusual for full-fare paying passengers to be standing between Exeter and Reading.

I think that was predicated by a few on here quite a while back - ironically enough a train that I've used on a few occasions (10:56 from Exeter to Bristol) whenever I have looked only has First advances available, only walk-up tickets in standard class. Thought it would be the other way round if anything!

 

[455driver]

Well the Pullman dining trains are certainly struggling because they cannot lay out enough places for the number of potential diners on the 1.5 1st class rakes, these are really feeling the pinch and are having to turn away a lot of custom. I am far too cynical to comment on this!

 

[CC 72100]

Well the Pullman dining trains are certainly struggling because they cannot lay out enough places for the number of potential diners on the 1.5 1st class rakes, these are really feeling the pinch and are having to turn away a lot of custom. I am far too cynical to comment on this!

To be honest, Pullman dining was one of the things I first thought of with the idea that there is now only 1.5 coaches of 1st - take out the Pullman section and you only have 1 coach for all first class passengers. Some of the trains that the Pullman dining is on aren't the quietest either...

As for your cynical view, I think we can both imagine a potential outcome of all this. :roll:

 

[Ash Bridge]

After IEPs are introduced on Paddington - Bristol/South Wales etc services would it be possible to extend the WoE HST sets to 9 cars with some of the trailer cars from displaced units, or would the South Devon banks prove to much for them?

 

[455driver]

2+9 wouldn't be a problem over the banks if they were fitted with sanders but whether they would go for that this late in their lives is another thing.
They have fitted sanders to the 143s though so anything is possible.

 

[yorksrob]

2+9 wouldn't be a problem over the banks if they were fitted with sanders but whether they would go for that this late in their lives is another thing.
They have fitted sanders to the 143s though so anything is possible.

Would seem preferable to destroying the 1st class offer !

 

[Tetchytyke]

take out the Pullman section and you only have 1 coach for all first class passengers. Some of the trains that the Pullman dining is on aren't the quietest either...

I was down in Cornwall this week and it was a shortened first class train, it was wedged all the way to Truro. Ridiculous. They didn't turn people away from Pullman dining, but they did boot people out very quickly afterwards. On the 1130 Paddington to Penzance everyone had been booted out of the dining area by Burnham on Sea.

 

[Mag_seven]

Well the Pullman dining trains are certainly struggling because they cannot lay out enough places for the number of potential diners on the 1.5 1st class rakes, these are really feeling the pinch and are having to turn away a lot of custom. I am far too cynical to comment on this!

Perhaps the loss of revenue that FGW are experiencing by this can be retrieved from a certain group of commuters whose bleating about having to stand for 25 mins in standard class led to these HST conversions

 

[CC 72100]

I was down in Cornwall this week and it was a shortened first class train, it was wedged all the way to Truro. Ridiculous. They didn't turn people away from Pullman dining, but they did boot people out very quickly afterwards. On the 1130 Paddington to Penzance everyone had been booted out of the dining area by Burnham on Sea.

Fair enough - as for the train being busy in Cornwall, I'm not surprised. Whenever I've boarded trains at Plymouth (Northwards) trains have always been busier coming in than they leave. As I mentioned on another thread at some point, I did overhear a TM saying (regarding not having reservation portion of Advance or something like that) "It's not so bad now but (the effects) would have been worse when we were in Cornwall when the train was busier".

Of course, I'm sure people will still believe that Cornish HSTs cart around a load of fresh air and 5-coach Bi-mode IEPs or something can easily cope.

The interesting thing about the first class reduction is that we haven't had a complete summer of all the sets being at 1.5 yet - that could be interesting.

 

[455driver]

Would seem preferable to destroying the 1st class offer !

I agree, The Pullman is one fantastic way to eat food while on the move, not cheap but well worth it as a one off!

I checked today and the salmon starter followed by monkfish was lovely!

 

[jopsuk]

So, FGW have a problem with Standard Class overcrowding. They are unable to lengthen trains further (lack of the 60 or s mark 3s that would be need, plus some platform length issues) so they convert First to Standard. Cue whining that the cheapo seat-filler First advances are no longer available and that a meal service that reduces the number of available seats may be withdrawn

 

[Flamingo]

So, FGW have a problem with Standard Class overcrowding. They are unable to lengthen trains further (lack of the 60 or s mark 3s that would be need, plus some platform length issues) so they convert First to Standard. Cue whining that the cheapo seat-filler First advances are no longer available and that a meal service that reduces the number of available seats may be withdrawn

That basically summarises it.

 

[455driver]

So, FGW have a problem with Standard Class overcrowding. They are unable to lengthen trains further (lack of the 60 or s mark 3s that would be need, plus some platform length issues) so they convert First to Standard. Cue whining that the cheapo seat-filler First advances are no longer available and that a meal service that reduces the number of available seats may be withdrawn

And so will the peoples jobs, but then who cares about the staff eh!

Some of us want train travel to be just a bit more than a quick way from A to B (where possible), we actually want to enjoy the journey but then, there are always those who get jealous isnt there!
There is no need to reduce all rakes down to 1.5 1st class seats, a few could have been left with 2.5 1st and diagrammed accordingly, it isnt exactly rocket science, but then in this dumbed down, one size fits all world we cant have that can we!

 

[Ash Bridge]

And so will the peoples jobs, but then who cares about the staff eh!

Some of us want train travel to be just a bit more than a quick way from A to B (where possible), we actually want to enjoy the journey but then, there are always those who get jealous isnt there!
There is no need to reduce all rakes down to 1.5 1st class seats, a few could have been left with 2.5 1st and diagrammed accordingly, it isnt exactly rocket science, but then in this dumbed down, one size fits all world we cant have that can we!

Agreed, Spot on!

 

[jopsuk]

The job loss is, I'll agree, a problem

 

[bunnahabhain]

And so will the peoples jobs, but then who cares about the staff eh!

Some of us want train travel to be just a bit more than a quick way from A to B (where possible), we actually want to enjoy the journey but then, there are always those who get jealous isnt there!
There is no need to reduce all rakes down to 1.5 1st class seats, a few could have been left with 2.5 1st and diagrammed accordingly, it isnt exactly rocket science, but then in this dumbed down, one size fits all world we cant have that can we!

Just like the old Midland Mainline "Pullman" rakes that had 3.5 first class and 4 Standard Class, they were usually diagrammed for the Master Cutler and more often than not then went and sat on Cricklewood for the majority of the day. Ocassionally they would rock up on a diagram booked for a normal rake and it would be wedged in Standard and usually one of the FC coaches would be declassified.

 

[455driver]

There are a few rakes that sit on Old Oak all day so it wouldnt be difficult to re-diagram so its the Pullman rakes!

 

[Marklund]

Could they not have turned the Restaurant/Buffet car round, and create similar to what East Coast have done with their Mark4 sets, leaving 2 full firsts, and gaining half a second?

 

[455driver]

Could they not have turned the Restaurant/Buffet car round, and create similar to what East Coast have done with their Mark4 sets, leaving 2 full firsts, and gaining half a second?

They could have but that would have been far too sensible.

 

[Marklund]

Of course. I forgot about railway logic. Stupid me.

 

[jopsuk]

Could they not have turned the Restaurant/Buffet car round, and create similar to what East Coast have done with their Mark4 sets, leaving 2 full firsts, and gaining half a second?

They could, but then they'd have gained half as many standard class seats as they have.

 

[JonathanH]

Just like the old Midland Mainline "Pullman" rakes that had 3.5 first class and 4 Standard Class, they were usually diagrammed for the Master Cutler and more often than not then went and sat on Cricklewood for the majority of the day. Ocassionally they would rock up on a diagram booked for a normal rake and it would be wedged in Standard and usually one of the FC coaches would be declassified.

At one time (when the trial refurbished TGS (45084) and TF (41178) were being evaluated), a set was dedicated to the Golden Hind and would work up from Penzance in the morning, do a return to Bristol and work back west in the evening. I guess the service is a bit more intensive now.