FGW taking me to court

[mus9]

Need urgent help basically a month ago I entered Ealing station (central and first capital connect lines )

I went through the barriers believing I had enough money the barriers were opened as I tapped and went through asoon as a walked through a inspector stopped and asked for I.D
Basically he claimed I walked through with another person he checked my oyster which is a child's 16+ I'm a 18 year old
My oyster he claimed only had £0.60 on there for some reason
He took my details and sent me on my way even though I did not board any train at all I also had no penalty fare even offered to me to pay

Now they want me to send them my point of view of what happend

And they said they have the intention to prosecute even though I never boarded a train and I also offered the inspector to return and top up my card

Need serious help thanks

 

[bb21]

Need urgent help basically a month ago I entered Ealing station (central and first capital connect lines )

First Capital Connect has nothing to do with any of the Ealing stations. Do you mean First Great Western, at Ealing Broadway?

I went through the barriers believing I had enough money the barriers were opened as I tapped and went through asoon as a walked through a inspector stopped and asked for I.D
Basically he claimed I walked through with another person he checked my oyster which is a child's 16+ I'm a 18 year old

I'm not particularly familiar with 16+ Oyster cards. Are you saying that you used a card with a discount you were not entitled to?

My oyster he claimed only had £0.60 on there for some reason
He took my details and sent me on my way even though I did not board any train at all I also had no penalty fare even offered to me to pay

If there is suspicion of something fishy going on, you will not be offered a Penalty Fare. You will be reported for consideration for prosecution instead, which is what happened by the sound of it. They do not have to offer you a Penalty Fare.

Now they want me to send them my point of view of what happend

And they said they have the intention to prosecute even though I never boarded a train and I also offered the inspector to return and top up my card

Need serious help thanks

Ealing Broadway (assuming that it is the station you are referring to) is a compulsory ticket area on all platforms, so you need a valid ticket to be there. Not actually travelling is not a good enough defence.

 

[yorkie]

I went through the barriers believing I had enough money the barriers were opened as I tapped and went through...

Did you obtain the green light, and entry sound?

The system will allow you to enter if you have enough money for a minimum cost journey.

Basically he claimed I walked through with another person he checked my oyster which is a child's 16+ I'm a 18 year old
My oyster he claimed only had £0.60 on there for some reason
He took my details and sent me on my way even though I did not board any train at all

For us to give advice, we'd really need to see a copy of your Oyster online journey history, which will show how much money was on your card, and what charges were made. Can you log into your account and upload a screenshot?

Where did you travel to, and were you able to touch out correctly and pay the correct fare on your Oyster card? Your journey history should show this.

I also had no penalty fare even offered to me to pay

Can you clarify what you're saying here please? Who offered what?

 

[mus9]

First Capital Connect has nothing to do with any of the Ealing stations. Do you mean First Great Western, at Ealing Broadway?



I'm not particularly familiar with 16+ Oyster cards. Are you saying that you used a card with a discount you were not entitled to?



If there is suspicion of something fishy going on, you will not be offered a Penalty Fare. You will be reported for consideration for prosecution instead, which is what happened by the sound of it. They do not have to offer you a Penalty Fare.





Ealing Broadway (assuming that it is the station you are referring to) is a compulsory ticket area on all platforms, so you need a valid ticket to be there. Not actually travelling is not a good enough defence.

Yeah I meant first great western !!! And I have a 16+ oyster legally mine and it's a discount oyster cheaper fares etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Did you obtain the green light, and entry sound?

The system will allow you to enter if you have enough money for a minimum cost journey.

For us to give advice, we'd really need to see a copy of your Oyster online journey history, which will show how much money was on your card, and what charges were made. Can you log into your account and upload a screenshot?

Where did you travel to, and were you able to touch out correctly and pay the correct fare on your Oyster card? Your journey history should show this.


Can you clarify what you're saying here please? Who offered what?

I mean basically when he stopped and took my details he didn't offer for me to pay a fine or penalty fare ??

Also I believe I tapped in maybe the machine went red (I believe this happend ) but someone pushed me through any who

 

[bb21]

So how much money did you have on the Oyster? Was it 60p as the RPI claimed?

 

[Clip]

I mean basically when he stopped and took my details he didn't offer for me to pay a fine or penalty fare ??

Also I believe I tapped in maybe the machine went red (I believe this happend ) but someone pushed me through any who

Seems like you were expecting a Penalty Fare. Has this happenned before?

 

[mus9]

Seems like you were expecting a Penalty Fare. Has this happenned before?

On the underground yeah and yeah I did have 60p on my oyster

 

[yorkie]

For us to give advice, we'd really need to see a copy of your Oyster online journey history, which will show how much money was on your card, and what charges were made. Can you log into your account and upload a screenshot?

Where did you travel to, and were you able to touch out correctly and pay the correct fare on your Oyster card? Your journey history should show this.

 

[bb21]

I think if you only had 60p on your Oyster, then they are entitled to report you for prosecution. I am not saying that it is the best way forward for them, but 60p cannot even cover the minimum single fare anywhere (which is 75p for you) so you could not have touched in successfully. Given that Ealing Broadway is a compulsory ticket area throughout, you require a valid ticket to be there, even if not travelling.

 

[mus9]

For us to give advice, we'd really need to see a copy of your Oyster online journey history, which will show how much money was on your card, and what charges were made. Can you log into your account and upload a screenshot?

Where did you travel to, and were you able to touch out correctly and pay the correct fare on your Oyster card? Your journey history should show this.

I did not travel at all I had around 50p on my card I tapped and got pushed through barriers and inspector stopped me is there any way of this not going to court ???!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I checked and I didn't tap in at Ealing Must of declined it

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If you want to discuss this matter with the Company and attempt to resolve the apparent claim of entering a compulsory ticket area without a ticket, then I think you will need convincing answers to some questions - questions which you don't appear to have been able to answer so far.

What was your business on the station on that day?
Were you aware that it was a Compulsory Ticket Area?
Why did you enter the station without the means to pay for the minimum fare?
You say you were pushed through the barrier. Would you have attempted to pass through the barrier if you hadn't been pushed?
Were you aware of the balance on your Oyster account?
What did you propose to do about that, and when?
Have you a record of having been on railway property previously without a valid ticket?
What is the statement you made to the Inspector on the day which has been used to decide to proceed this far towards a prosecution?

I don't think anyone can help without knowing these answers, and I'll guess that the only people are you, and possibly, the Inspector who questioned you.
You don't need to answer them all on this forum, but you do need to answer them truthfully. If you think about those truthful answers from the Company's point of view, do you feel you are reaching grounds for an out of Court settlement?
Or not?

 

[bb21]

I checked and I didn't tap in at Ealing Must of declined it

As I have explained, you wouldn't have been able to touch in successfully as you need to have at least the minimum fare (75p) on your card in order to do that.

 

[jon0844]

If you had a problem with your Oyster and yet someone behind tapped in, which opened the gate, and you didn't realise then it's unfortunate but not actually that rare.

At, say, Old Street which still has the old style mechanical gates, it's incredibly easy. What sometimes happens, as these gates are quicker, is that you inadvertently let the person in front through and then don't get in yourself. At the newer, slower, gates it's quite possibly that two people would easily get through.

The fact you didn't have enough money on the card wouldn't normally have been a problem. The gate wouldn't open and you'd go off to top up the card, or not travel.

In this case, you've been let through a barrier - so I think this is what you need to explain now you've been given the opportunity to do so. It's the action of the person behind you that got you into this mess, and it would seem the RPI could have worked this out, although if you were close behind someone who had just gone through perhaps the RPI thought you'd doubled up and made no attempt to touch in.

 

[mus9]

If you want to discuss this matter with the Company and attempt to resolve the apparent claim of entering a compulsory ticket area without a ticket, then I think you will need convincing answers to some questions - questions which you don't appear to have been able to answer so far.

What was your business on the station on that day?
Were you aware that it was a Compulsory Ticket Area?
Why did you enter the station without the means to pay for the minimum fare?
You say you were pushed through the barrier. Would you have attempted to pass through the barrier if you hadn't been pushed?
Were you aware of the balance on your Oyster account?
What did you propose to do about that, and when?
Have you a record of having been on railway property previously without a valid ticket?
What is the statement you made to the Inspector on the day which has been used to decide to proceed this far towards a prosecution?

I don't think anyone can help without knowing these answers, and I'll guess that the only people are you, and possibly, the Inspector who questioned you.
You don't need to answer them all on this forum, but you do need to answer them truthfully. If you think about those truthful answers from the Company's point of view, do you feel you are reaching grounds for an out of Court settlement?
Or not?

I was travelling to another station (southall)

I did have the means to pay and I topped up the money and it didn't register the 2£ coin I put in there what happend was when I got in my friend told me as I was speaking to the inspector my money was in the machine still inspector didn't believe me

Also he asked if I had enough money and I said " at the time of going through the barriers I believed I had enough money to travel"

He also asked if he hadn't stopped me would I of continued to travel and I said no as I just relised the barrier went red as I went through (I got pushed)

Do u think at all I could get it settled out of court thanks
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you had a problem with your Oyster and yet someone behind tapped in, which opened the gate, and you didn't realise then it's unfortunate but not actually that rare.

At, say, Old Street which still has the old style mechanical gates, it's incredibly easy. What sometimes happens, as these gates are quicker, is that you inadvertently let the person in front through and then don't get in yourself. At the newer, slower, gates it's quite possibly that two people would easily get through.

The fact you didn't have enough money on the card wouldn't normally have been a problem. The gate wouldn't open and you'd go off to top up the card, or not travel.

In this case, you've been let through a barrier - so I think this is what you need to explain now you've been given the opportunity to do so. It's the action of the person behind you that got you into this mess, and it would seem the RPI could have worked this out, although if you were close behind someone who had just gone through perhaps the RPI thought you'd doubled up and made no attempt to touch in.

Yeah the thought I doubled behind someone and he didn't believe me !!

 

[Clip]

I was travelling to another station (southall)

I did have the means to pay and I topped up the money and it didn't register the 2£ coin I put in there what happend was when I got in my friend told me as I was speaking to the inspector my money was in the machine still inspector didn't believe me

Also he asked if I had enough money and I said " at the time of going through the barriers I believed I had enough money to travel"

He also asked if he hadn't stopped me would I of continued to travel and I said no as I just relised the barrier went red as I went through (I got pushed)

Do u think at all I could get it settled out of court thanks
!

Whilst I would like to believe you, how could you possibly not have known that your Oyster didnt top up correctly when the machine specifically asks you to present your Oyster to the reader to confirm the top up? It would not have done this if it did not accept your coin. And you would have noticed this as it would not have said touch the reader again and it would not have said this transaction is not complete.


I simply do not believe you because of this, sorry that sounds harsh.

 

[bb21]

I am with Clip on this one. The claim that you did not realise your top-up was not successful is simply not believable, and I say this very very rarely because I normally give people the benefit of the doubt. Have you never topped up at a machine before?

If even I say this, then I am not surprised the RPI didn't believe you.

 

[Greenback]

In fairness, I haven't topped up when I thought I had, but then I was on the DLR and pretty unfamiliar with both Oyster and the machines at the time. I can't remember what happened but I had to do it again at Beckton when the reader made a strange noise on tapping out, which I wasn't expecting. Sure enough, when I looked I was in negative balance as the £20 top up had not appeared.

I'm sure I did something wrong, but I would not liked to have been accused of fare evasion when I thought I had put money on the card!

 

[bb21]

I think I can see a bit more clearly what had happened there having read the OP's posts again from the beginning. It wasn't very clearly communicated so I will try and decipher what happened and the OP can tell me whether this was correct or not.

I assume by what you said you tried to top up by £2. You inserted the coin, but walked away without touching your card on the reader again to confirm it. Is that correct?

You then went through the barrier (which was locked open?) so did not notice it showed a red light, and were subsequently caught. Is that right?

 

[furlong]

I assume by what you said you tried to top up by £2. You inserted the coin, but walked away without touching your card on the reader again to confirm it. Is that correct?

If that is the case and they try to take this any further, you should point out that the transaction log of the machine can be checked to confirm your story.

 

[bb21]

If that is the case and they try to take this any further, you should point out that the transaction log of the machine can be checked to confirm your story.

That was what I was wondering.

If an Oyster card is not touched on the machine a second time, will the machine spit the money out once it "times out", or will it take the money and log the transaction?

If the latter, there may be a chance of a defence if the OP makes an enquiry with the Oyster Helpline.

My original assessment still stands however that it is highly unlikely the OP's claim that he was not aware that his Oyster card was not successfully topped up would be believed by itself, if he followed the instructions on the screen. But if he could produce some evidence that he did try and top up, that might just be sufficient to persuade FGW (possibly using FCC's prosecutions team - which is where the confusion in the first post may have come from) to drop the case.

 

[mus9]

That was what I was wondering.

If an Oyster card is not touched on the machine a second time, will the machine spit the money out once it "times out", or will it take the money and log the transaction?

If the latter, there may be a chance of a defence if the OP makes an enquiry with the Oyster Helpline.

My original assessment still stands however that it is highly unlikely the OP's claim that he was not aware that his Oyster card was not successfully topped up would be believed by itself, if he followed the instructions on the screen. But if he could produce some evidence that he did try and top up, that might just be sufficient to persuade FGW (possibly using FCC's prosecutions team - which is where the confusion in the first post may have come from) to drop the case.

So sorry I checked and there's no log maybe I never topped up cuz I was topping both me and my friends at once so maybe that's why either way is there absolutely any way of keeping it out of court I'm having a serious issue

 

[yorkie]

... is there absolutely any way of keeping it out of court I'm having a serious issue

You and the Train Company could reach such an agreement (see 8.7.1.3 Out of Court Settlements). That would be a matter between yourself and the Company.

And if you are thinking of asking 'how much would it cost to settle out of court?' I can pre-empt that question by directing you to this post on another thread.

 

[mus9]

You and the Train Company could reach such an agreement (see 8.7.1.3 Out of Court Settlements). That would be a matter between yourself and the Company.

And if you are thinking of asking 'how much would it cost to settle out of court?' I can pre-empt that question by directing you to this post on another thread.

How would I go about sayin this in a letter wouldn't it confirm to them I was trying to double trough with someone ?? And also do they offer how much or do I have to offer how much I'm paying ??
Also do u think they would accept in this case
Thanks

 

[mus9]

1. I did not travel however I intended to go from Ealing to southall
2.i had £0.10 in my 16+ oyster and I didn't know at the time so tapped and it was already open from previous and I got pushed in
3.inspector stops and asks for details etc , now I have a letter saying first great have the intention to take me to court

With the high chance of getting a criminal record for it !!!!

The inspector believed I doubled through with someone !

And he checked my oyster and said only 0.10p£ was in there ,

He asked of I would of continued with my journey if he didn't stop me I replied : no as I was just made aware from the machine it went red and I got pushed through

He asked if I had means to pay and I replied yes !!

Anyway he didn't bother fining me on the spot and they now want me to go to court with I would not want at all as my future would all go down the drain

So I'm asking is there any way I can settle out of court if so how and do I offer the sum of money

And what region do u believe it should be

 

[Anvil1984]

Hang on. Is this a separate case to your last 1 where you had 60p on

 

[bb21]

Hang on. How much money did you have on your card really? 60p or 10p?

 

[Clip]

Has to be a wind up now surely. So inconsistent, bleating about a criminal record, being pushed through the barriers. nah dont believe any of it.

 

[mus9]

Hang on. Is this a separate case to your last 1 where you had 60p on

No it's the same one I had 0.10p not 60p !!

I am in serious trouble and u guys are no help at all ??

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . u guys are no help at all ??

I'm not sure what help you can expect!
We've advised you to tell the truth to the Railway Company, and you know that sometimes, they will accept a genuine explanation and sometimes will accept an offer to settle their costs for a first-time offender.
You also know that they often prosecute deliberate fare evaders and opportunist evaders.

Only you know which category you are in, and so you should be able to anticipate the outcomes. You should also be able to make your own reply to the Company's investigating officer with the facts - facts which should correspond to the evidence reported by the Inspector.