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FGW service fails to turn up at Brighton!

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Searle

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A quick check of the OTT Data shows that since 28th June it's been part cancelled 5/28 times, 18% of the time, (two trains per day for fourteen days), twice started from Worthing, once cancelled at Westbury and twice cancelled at Temple Meads. Doesn't seem too bad (for a long distance sprinter) really but it could certainly be improved!
 
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SussexSpotter

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You know that link's over a year old, don't you?

I am aware of that ;) ....but it's the most recent thing I could find about the Brighton stats. What it does show though is that the unreliability of this service has been ongoing for a while now......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A quick check of the OTT Data shows that since 28th June it's been part cancelled 5/28 times, 18% of the time, (two trains per day for fourteen days), twice started from Worthing, once cancelled at Westbury and twice cancelled at Temple Meads. Doesn't seem too bad (for a long distance sprinter) really but it could certainly be improved!

I would very much agree that it could be improved, but what i'd like to know is how it could. Some of it is probably outside of FGW's control.

It's not just about whether it turns up though.....it is frequently late arriving into Brighton if it does!
 
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PHILIPE

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I think all of it is not due to FGW. It has a long distance to run thus increasing the opportunity of delays for a variety of reasons. It is also going to turn back short of destination to maintain it's return path. Most of the time normally available at Brighton would be for Traincrew Break. It seems over a period of time difficult to pin down to one particular issue.
 

SussexSpotter

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I think all of it is not due to FGW. It has a long distance to run thus increasing the opportunity of delays for a variety of reasons. It is also going to turn back short of destination to maintain it's return path. Most of the time normally available at Brighton would be for Traincrew Break. It seems over a period of time difficult to pin down to one particular issue.

I think if they only ran the services between Bristol and Brighton that would help improve the reliability a lot and be less prone to issues. Remember you have the double reversal included (Bristol and Gloucester)... I don't really see much point in the extension beyond Bristol anyway.....how often does anyone ever make the full journey between Great Malvern and Brighton???? At over 5 and a half hours each way on a sprinter....(sometimes a 150).....not something i'd really want to do :|
 
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Goatboy

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I think if they only ran the services between Bristol and Brighton that would help improve the reliability a lot and be less prone to issues. Remember you have the double reversal included (Bristol and Gloucester)... I don't really see much point in the extension beyond Bristol anyway.....how often does anyone ever make the full journey between Great Malvern and Brighton???? At over 5 and a half hours each way on a sprinter....(sometimes a 150).....not something i'd really want to do :|

The point in the extension is that it provides service between Bristol and Worcester/Great Malvern.
 

SussexSpotter

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The point in the extension is that it provides service between Bristol and Worcester/Great Malvern.

True.....but as PHILIPE says ''it has a long distance to run thus increasing the opportunity of delays for a variety of reasons.''....don't know whether running it as 2 separate Bristol services might help????
 

Goatboy

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True.....but as PHILIPE says ''it has a long distance to run thus increasing the opportunity of delays for a variety of reasons.''....don't know whether running it as 2 separate Bristol services might help????

I doubt they have the stock to do that - FGW are very short on DMU's which is why you end up with 150's on 5 hour trips.
 

TEW

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The Brighton service is part of the standard hourly Westbury-Gloucester service, just extended at either end. Most FGW services run through Bristol Temple Meads rather than terminate there because it saves stock and platform capacity at Bristol.
 

worc_passr

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I don't really see much point in the extension beyond Bristol anyway.....how often does anyone ever make the full journey between Great Malvern and Brighton????
My other half did Worcester - Brighton on Tuesday of this week, and would be coming back on the through working today except that the departure was too early for her purposes.
 

SussexSpotter

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My other half did Worcester - Brighton on Tuesday of this week, and would be coming back on the through working today except that the departure was too early for her purposes.

It is interesting people do use these services then to make the longer distance trips, I had only really thought the furthest they were used was between Bristol and Brighton. I suppose on a sprinter it is a lot better than a 150.....if you were to do that type of journey, but even so it is a long journey with many stops along the route....takes some commitment ;)
 

ushawk

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Alterations again today, the 16.59 Brighton - Bristol Temple Meads will start from Worthing due to an earlier train fault affecting the Brighton-bound service.

Pax to use 16.53 Brighton - West Worthing to connect at Worthing.
 

D1009

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I'm not convinced there is a huge demand for through services between even Bristol and Brighton. I believe it would make the service far more reliable if SWT ran it using the set they regularly hire to FGW, and make it a portion off an Exeter - Waterloo service detached at Salisbury.
 

ushawk

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I'm not convinced there is a huge demand for through services between even Bristol and Brighton. I believe it would make the service far more reliable if SWT ran it using the set they regularly hire to FGW, and make it a portion off an Exeter - Waterloo service detached at Salisbury.

There is. Lots of seat reservations from Brighton - Bristol ive seen put onto the services, as well as from other stations along the line before Cosham. Service regularly leaves full up too.
 

SussexSpotter

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I'm not convinced there is a huge demand for through services between even Bristol and Brighton. I believe it would make the service far more reliable if SWT ran it using the set they regularly hire to FGW, and make it a portion off an Exeter - Waterloo service detached at Salisbury.

There is some demand.....which is why I think the service is still going! Every other long distance Brighton service has been chopped by the Dft, so the FGW's are a bit of an anomaly. If there was not much demand then the service would have been withdrawn a while ago I think. I strongly believe a through service should be retained because Bristol is an important city and Brighton is to....so you are providing a useful link there. Less important cities like Chichester are also served by the service along the way.....

I would support your suggestion that SWT should run the Brighton's though, up until 2007 they did serve Brighton quite regularly and there was at one time a Sat/Sun service down to Paignton which called at Exeter. This was discussed on a recent thread about services which were withdrawn that should be reinstated....
 
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a1a.a1a

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Re the other through services (SWT/XC) these have all been re franchised and that is when the DfT decide to chop back through services, I wont be surprised if that happens when GW finally gets done.. shame but the long distance passengers who dont want to or can't easily change trains suffer at the expense of getting the local service to be more reliable.
 

SussexSpotter

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There is. Lots of seat reservations from Brighton - Bristol ive seen put onto the services, as well as from other stations along the line before Cosham. Service regularly leaves full up too.

That is indeed correct....I havn't been on this service recently as I havn't needed to use it from Brighton, but I have seen that....lots of people with suitcases. I think quite a few people make trips to Bath too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Re the other through services (SWT/XC) these have all been re franchised and that is when the DfT decide to chop back through services, I wont be surprised if that happens when GW finally gets done.. shame but the long distance passengers who dont want to or can't easily change trains suffer at the expense of getting the local service to be more reliable.

It would be total madness by the Dft if they were to cut the through link from Brighton - Bristol at the next GW franchise....and as you say those people would suffer. But I wouldn't be surprised if they do cut it, nothing really surprises me anymore with the Dft.....
 
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embers25

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That is indeed correct....I havn't been on this service recently as I havn't needed to use it from Brighton, but I have seen that....lots of people with suitcases. I think quite a few people make trips to Bath too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It would be total madness by the Dft if they were to cut the through link from Brighton - Bristol at the next GW franchise....and as you say those people would suffer. But I wouldn't be surprised if they do cut it, nothing really surprises me anymore with the Dft.....

They used to be reservation only and for a reason!! the morning one often used to leave Brighton full and by Havant it was crush loaded.
 

PHILIPE

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There is some demand.....which is why I think the service is still going! Every other long distance Brighton service has been chopped by the Dft, so the FGW's are a bit of an anomaly. If there was not much demand then the service would have been withdrawn a while ago I think. I strongly believe a through service should be retained because Bristol is an important city and Brighton is to....so you are providing a useful link there. Less important cities like Chichester are also served by the service along the way.....

I would support your suggestion that SWT should run the Brighton's though, up until 2007 they did serve Brighton quite regularly and there was at one time a Sat/Sun service down to Paignton which called at Exeter. This was discussed on a recent thread about services which were withdrawn that should be reinstated.....
DFT do not work on what is a Performance issue. In their eyes it's the duty of Networkk Rail and TOCs to operate services.
 

TEW

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I'm not convinced there is a huge demand for through services between even Bristol and Brighton. I believe it would make the service far more reliable if SWT ran it using the set they regularly hire to FGW, and make it a portion off an Exeter - Waterloo service detached at Salisbury.

Lots of people say that it's a waste of stock, but if you travel on the services you soon realise the demand is there. There are always plenty of reservations through to Brighton or other Coastway destinations.
 

swt_passenger

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Re the other through services (SWT/XC) these have all been re franchised and that is when the DfT decide to chop back through services, I wont be surprised if that happens when GW finally gets done.. shame but the long distance passengers who dont want to or can't easily change trains suffer at the expense of getting the local service to be more reliable.

It was proposed for removal, but the DfT ultimately left it in the recently cancelled GW franchise spec. I don't think they'd revisit the decision in the next version of the spec, as it isn't really a significant issue when set alongside stuff like IEP introduction and electrification, which are apparently the reasons for the rewrite...
 

SussexSpotter

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Lots of people say that it's a waste of stock, but if you travel on the services you soon realise the demand is there. There are always plenty of reservations through to Brighton or other Coastway destinations.

Correct.

It was proposed for removal, but the DfT ultimately left it in the recently cancelled GW franchise spec. I don't think they'd revisit the decision in the next version of the spec, as it isn't really a significant issue when set alongside stuff like IEP introduction and electrification, which are apparently the reasons for the rewrite...

That's good to hear then, after all why remove services that are well used????
 

BestWestern

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There is. Lots of seat reservations from Brighton - Bristol ive seen put onto the services, as well as from other stations along the line before Cosham. Service regularly leaves full up too.

The train is generally very busy departing Brighton simply because it is the only service that isn't a deathly slow Southern! Many of those people are off by Havant and Fareham, or indeed well before. The service does sometimes carry a good load of leisure travellers, but a great many of them have Advance tickets and pay peanuts. On many occasions though the train is dead from Fareham or Southampton onwards, and most crew will tell you it's an easy job. By the time you get to Bristol you could often fit the loadings into a minibus.

The delays on the inward run (1O98) can occur anywhere, but once they've happened they are exacerbated considerably when the train gets onto the Coastway. Every other service is a Southern that stops at every pile of bricks, and there is little opportunity to get past whatever might be in your way. It tends to start at Southampton, the service often ends up behind a Southern timetabled not too far behind it. If the Sprinter is right up his backside, the panel will usually loop the Southern at Northam, but if that doesn't happen it's a slow run all the way to Fareham and beyond, as the cucumber also stops at Swanwick. Once you get to Havant it has then got to vie with everything coming out of Pompey for a gap, which of course includes more Sussex-bound stoppers as well as SWT. It can slip past at Barnham or Worthing, but only if there's room to get you round. By then though the decision already needs to have been made, and it's often terminate at Barnham. Barnham tends to be preferable to Worthing as there is a siding there rather than having the unit sat in the loop platform.

The appearance of 150 units is certainly not ideal, but the current policy appears to be the use of either of the pair of three car 150/9 units (a 150/1 with a spare /2 car in the middle) as first choice substitute when a 158/9 is unavailable. Whilst this provides seats, it does nothing for pax comfort!
 
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Temple Meads

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As BestWestern this service is often seriously quiet by arrival at Bristol, I've used it many times between Westbury and Bath/Bristol, and it's usually a very pleasant trip indeed, I've used it about 10 times and not yet got a 150.. My luck must run out soon, although as I only usually do a short hop on it, it won't be too bad ;)
 

rmt4ever

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Correct.



That's good to hear then, after all why remove services that are well used????

I am sure there used to be a SWT service from Reading via Basingstoke, I took it to Fareham a few times it was always busy (a 2 car DMU I think) but that didn't stop them axing the service.
 

SussexSpotter

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I am sure there used to be a SWT service from Reading via Basingstoke, I took it to Fareham a few times it was always busy (a 2 car DMU I think) but that didn't stop them axing the service.

There did....and no it didn't stop them!
 
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swt_passenger

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It tends to start at Southampton, the service often ends up behind a Southern timetabled not too far behind it. If the Sprinter is right up his backside, the panel will usually loop the Southern at Northam, but if that doesn't happen it's a slow run all the way to Fareham and beyond, as the cucumber also stops at Swanwick.

Not quite correct, the relevant SN Brighton service that the eastbound FGW would theoretically follow leaves Southampton a few minutes earlier than usual (1426 rather than xx33) and runs via Eastleigh specifically to allow the FGW service to be in front of it by Fareham. If running according to the WTT, the SN service is normally held for a couple of minutes just after it exits Fareham tunnel.

I don't disagree though that once the DMU is behind the EMU at Fareham it will be delayed all the way along the coastway, but it shouldn't ever be caused by chasing the SN Brighton service via Swanwick...
 
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