FGW rumours

[Busaholic]

Or Courtnay's reluctance to help a rival? I have no idea about why it took five days to sort out acceptance of train tickets on buses in the Maidenhead area, but given all the efforts that I know were being put into things last February, I would be surprised to find that Courtnay's was willing to accept the tickets from day one, and FGW were refusing to allow this!

Probably a reluctance on both sides: obviously Courtney would wish to be adequately compensated and not to put their regular passengers at a disadvantage. As a large company First should also have been able to bring in buses and drivers from all over within 36 hours: cf power companies after storms.

 

[21C101]

And were the local bus companies owned by First Group, or were they prepared to accept train tickets before the MP got involved?

Were Network Rail (who owned the track FGW were unable to use) prepared to pay the local bus companies to accept rail tickets?

He said that First own the local buses in his post you quoted.

Network Rail pay TOCs delay compensation payments to cover these sorts of costs, they are not just bonuses for the shareholders!

 

[Flamingo]

He said that First own the local buses in his post you quoted.
!

Can you show me that? I seem to be unable to see it. My reading of his post is that First Bus had a presence until five years ago, now Courtnays has the lions share.

Also, I have no idea what compensation was paid to the bus companies, or asked for. Can you give your source that FGW refused to pay the bus companies a reasonable rate for their service?

 

[21C101]

Bearing in mind how the service had ground to a halt, usually TOCs make arrangements for their tickets to be used on local buses so people can get to their destinations. It took FGW 5 days to make such arrangements last Feb, which bearing in mind First Group run the local buses is a bit much. When I asked them if they were going to do it, they said it couldn't be done. However when Slough MP Fiona Mactaggert contacted FGW and said it should be done, doors opened and within 24 hours it was possible.

Will this do?

 

[Flamingo]

Will this do?

You must have missed this post then...

FirstGroup ran virtually all local buses in Maidenhead area until about five years ago since when Courtney have established themselves as the major local operator, operating out as far as Bracknell, often in competition with First, who are retrenching further next month in Maidenhead. Hence FGW's reluctance to involve buses?!

 

[21C101]

Also, I have no idea what compensation was paid to the bus companies, or asked for. Can you give your source that FGW refused to pay the bus companies a reasonable rate for their service?

I made no such allegation. With the greatest of respect, I think you need to read more carefully before responding.

 

[Flamingo]

I made no such allegation. With the greatest of respect, I think you need to read more carefully before responding.

So why did you say it was only a profit for shareholders? That's a pretty strong allegation.

 

[21C101]

You must have missed this post then...

The incident didnt just affect one area. I think you will find that Slough for example was badly affected and buses there are indeed operated by First eg the one that runs to Uxbridge where there is a tube station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So why did you say it was only a profit for shareholders? That's a pretty strong allegation.

I didnt say it.

 

[Flamingo]

I didnt say it.

Network Rail pay TOCs delay compensation payments to cover these sorts of costs, they are not just bonuses for the shareholders!

So what DID you mean by this post?

 

[21C101]

That what you wrote below was irrelevant. Network Rail dont pay bus companies because thdy pay TOCs delay compensation payments so TOCs can pay them

Were Network Rail (who owned the track FGW were unable to use) prepared to pay the local bus companies to accept rail tickets?

 

[southern442]

There is already a HST going about with the new First Class. It's branded as "GWR First Class". Very classy... and not a rumour.

All staff have been required to specify sizes for 'new' uniform. Whether that's new new or new old we don't know but the current rumours are the uniform will be "un-branded".

Are there any pictures of the new First class?

 

[starrymarkb]

Are there any pictures of the new First class?

See this link - http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100786/first-great-western-unveils-refurbished-first-c

 

[southern442]

See this link - http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100786/first-great-western-unveils-refurbished-first-c

wow, that looks brilliant.

 

[slilley]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 21C101 View Post
Will this do?

You must have missed this post then...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Busaholic View Post
FirstGroup ran virtually all local buses in Maidenhead area until about five years ago since when Courtney have established themselves as the major local operator, operating out as far as Bracknell, often in competition with First, who are retrenching further next month in Maidenhead. Hence FGW's reluctance to involve buses?!


Ok Flamingo lets get down to some hard facts on this.

When the signal loc at Maidenhead was under water the train service in and out of Paddington was severely disrupted. The local service just about collapsed that first week to the point where living in Langley as I do we would not get a train to London in the mornings until at least 7am. Too late to stop me being late for work and besides friends who tried to get on failed as it was rammed solid. For that first week my wife drove me to Uxbridge every day so I could get the Metropolitan Line to work.

On the Thursday I rang FGW and asked if train tickets were being accepted on local buses such as the 58 which runs between Slough and Uxbridge. The service like just about every other in Slough is run by First Berkshire Bus part of First Group. FGW told me no. If I wanted to get the bus to Uxbridge I would have to pay, about £8 a day return on top of what I already pay for a travelcard from Langley to London. I asked if anything could be done to change this and was told no if they did it in Slough they would have to do it across their network.

I made some enquiries and thanks to a friend who uses FCC everyday discovered that if their service goes belly up FCC have arrangements in place with local buses for train tickets to be accepted automatically and some of the bus companies are not part of First Group.

Given FGW's reluctance to help their passengers I made some further phone calls and lo and behold the following day after Slough MP Fiona Mactaggart had been in touch with FGW Chief Exec, FGW announced on the Friday afternoon that for the duration of the disruption train tickets would be accepted on buses in the Slough area and other places. Something they have done several times since when the job has stopped.

My point in all this as a Quality Manager is that companies are judged not so much on when things go right but when they go wrong and how quickly they react to things going pear shaped. I was saddened that it needed the intervention of the Member of Parliament for the area to get them to do something that many other TOCs would do as standard.

I trust this clarifies the matter for you and 21C101.

Best wishes

Simon

 

[richw]

On the Thursday I rang FGW and asked if train tickets were being accepted on local buses such as the 58 which runs between Slough and Uxbridge. The service like just about every other in Slough is run by First Berkshire Bus part of First Group. FGW told me no. If I wanted to get the bus to Uxbridge I would have to pay, about £8 a day return on top of what I already pay for a travelcard from Langley to London. I asked if anything could be done to change this and was told no if they did it in Slough they would have to do it across their network.

I made some enquiries and thanks to a friend who uses FCC everyday discovered that if their service goes belly up FCC have arrangements in place with local buses for train tickets to be accepted automatically and some of the bus companies are not part of First Group.

Given FGW's reluctance to help their passengers I made some further phone calls and lo and behold the following day after Slough MP Fiona Mactaggart had been in touch with FGW Chief Exec, FGW announced on the Friday afternoon that for the duration of the disruption train tickets would be accepted on buses in the Slough area and other places. Something they have done several times since when the job has stopped.

My point in all this as a Quality Manager is that companies are judged not so much on when things go right but when they go wrong and how quickly they react to things going pear shaped. I was saddened that it needed the intervention of the Member of Parliament for the area to get them to do something that many other TOCs would do as standard.

I trust this clarifies the matter for you and 21C101.

Best wishes

Simon

I need to reply to this as in Cornwall Fgw certainly has an arrangement with First Kernow. In February all train tickets were accepted on first Kernow. The small issue of this was that first bus could only get you from Penzance to st Austell.

Whenever a train breaks down on a branch line, within a space of a few minutes they advertise train tickets are being accepted on the relevant First bus,

 

[21C101]

There is no registered trademark or copyright for the GWR name or initials.

I'm assuming due to the company being long since gone.

I had always thought that the trademarks for the old railway companies passed to BR, then the SRA and now ORR.

I thought that was why none of the post privatisation companies used the old liveries and company names immediately after privatisation (until Southern Railway came along).

As I understand it, preserved railways through HRA have some sort of offical dispensation.

 

[Manchester77]

The SoS for transport seems to have the trademarks for the BR brands (like 'sprinter' and the intercity swallow) according to the government site.

 

[HowardGWR]

See this link - http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100786/first-great-western-unveils-refurbished-first-c

It strikes me that glass partitions in both classes would be a very good sales point. Either that or extended 'quiet' coaches.

 

[Busaholic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 21C101 View Post
Will this do?

You must have missed this post then...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Busaholic View Post
FirstGroup ran virtually all local buses in Maidenhead area until about five years ago since when Courtney have established themselves as the major local operator, operating out as far as Bracknell, often in competition with First, who are retrenching further next month in Maidenhead. Hence FGW's reluctance to involve buses?!


Ok Flamingo lets get down to some hard facts on this.

When the signal loc at Maidenhead was under water the train service in and out of Paddington was severely disrupted. The local service just about collapsed that first week to the point where living in Langley as I do we would not get a train to London in the mornings until at least 7am. Too late to stop me being late for work and besides friends who tried to get on failed as it was rammed solid. For that first week my wife drove me to Uxbridge every day so I could get the Metropolitan Line to work.

On the Thursday I rang FGW and asked if train tickets were being accepted on local buses such as the 58 which runs between Slough and Uxbridge. The service like just about every other in Slough is run by First Berkshire Bus part of First Group. FGW told me no. If I wanted to get the bus to Uxbridge I would have to pay, about £8 a day return on top of what I already pay for a travelcard from Langley to London. I asked if anything could be done to change this and was told no if they did it in Slough they would have to do it across their network.

I made some enquiries and thanks to a friend who uses FCC everyday discovered that if their service goes belly up FCC have arrangements in place with local buses for train tickets to be accepted automatically and some of the bus companies are not part of First Group.

Given FGW's reluctance to help their passengers I made some further phone calls and lo and behold the following day after Slough MP Fiona Mactaggart had been in touch with FGW Chief Exec, FGW announced on the Friday afternoon that for the duration of the disruption train tickets would be accepted on buses in the Slough area and other places. Something they have done several times since when the job has stopped.

My point in all this as a Quality Manager is that companies are judged not so much on when things go right but when they go wrong and how quickly they react to things going pear shaped. I was saddened that it needed the intervention of the Member of Parliament for the area to get them to do something that many other TOCs would do as standard.

I trust this clarifies the matter for you and 21C101.

Best wishes

Simon

The main problem cited here could be where you live i.e. Berkshire, a county that like Middlesex ceased to exist years ago. What I mean is there is no one authority, a County Council, with transport responsibilities and perhaps an ability to bang heads together, just individual councils like Windsor and Maidenhead. If this had happened in Greater London, notwithstanding First having no bus operations there anymore, all the local buses contracted by TfL would have been alerted within hours, if not minutes, to accept train tickets for 'reasonable' journeys, aided by the flatfare system within London. Joined-up thinking may be in short supply in these 'market' days but, in transport terms, there's a bit more going in London.

 

[slilley]

The main problem cited here could be where you live i.e. Berkshire, a county that like Middlesex ceased to exist years ago. What I mean is there is no one authority, a County Council, with transport responsibilities and perhaps an ability to bang heads together, just individual councils like Windsor and Maidenhead. If this had happened in Greater London, notwithstanding First having no bus operations there anymore, all the local buses contracted by TfL would have been alerted within hours, if not minutes, to accept train tickets for 'reasonable' journeys, aided by the flatfare system within London. Joined-up thinking may be in short supply in these 'market' days but, in transport terms, there's a bit more going in London.

No I think the problem is with FGW not thinking through what to do when the job stops for several days. It is not right that they only started to do that when a Member of Parliament got onto them and started asking awkward questions.

 

[21C101]

Originally Posted by Busaholic
The main problem cited here could be where you live i.e. Berkshire, a county that like Middlesex ceased to exist years ago. What I mean is there is no one authority, a County Council, with transport responsibilities and perhaps an ability to bang heads together, just individual councils like Windsor and Maidenhead. If this had happened in Greater London, notwithstanding First having no bus operations there anymore, all the local buses contracted by TfL would have been alerted within hours, if not minutes, to accept train tickets for 'reasonable' journeys, aided by the flatfare system within London. Joined-up thinking may be in short supply in these 'market' days but, in transport terms, there's a bit more going in London.

No I think the problem is with FGW not thinking through what to do when the job stops for several days. It is not right that they only started to do that when a Member of Parliament got onto them and started asking awkward questions.

First Capital Connect publish an alternative routes map for most stations that includes local bus and rail alternatives with big words at the top saying "When First Capital Connect services on the Thameslink route are disrupted, we have arranged for your ticket to be accepted on any of the routes highlighted below"

Under the map it states: First Capital Connect tickets will be accepted on any reasonable route to reach your
destination on the following operators:
- East Midlands Trains (for London - Luton/Bedford ticket holders only)
- First Capital Connect (Great Northern route)
- First Great Western
- London buses
- London Midland
- London Tramlink
- London Overground
- London Underground
- Southeastern
- Southern
- South West Trains

The document also shows that FCC tickets appear to be valid during disruption on St Albans local Arriva buses such as 300, 301, Sullivan Buses 330 and Unobus 657.

For bus operators where such arrangements have not been made the leaflet states "Where rail tickets are not accepted there is a symbol # with the words "# - On bus routes marked # in the table above you may have to buy a bus ticket and apply for a refund" strongly implying that if you keep the bus ticket & ask FCC for a bus ticket refund you will get one. The map also shows such routes with * and in the key "You may need to purchase a ticketand apply for a refund on these bus routes"

I suspect that where a powerful local authority would help as Busaholic suggests is in persuading rival operators to accept tickets (although they might in any case during very severe disruption - the wording says "On bus routes marked # in the table above you may have to buy a bus ticket").

Note that the Bus routes in balkanised and county council less Bedfordshire eg 81 (from Luton to Bedford) and 101 (luton - stevenage) have #

Clearly FCC have done everything they can to make life easy for customers during disruption.

You can find the one of the maps (for St Albans) here:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/filemanager/LEAF.DIS.PREP.MATRIX.TL.SAC.1404.pdf

and the index to all of them here:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.u...maps/thameslink-route-alternative-route-maps/

 

[455driver]

No I think the problem is with FGW not thinking through what to do when the job stops for several days. It is not right that they only started to do that when a Member of Parliament got onto them and started asking awkward questions.

So you can state categorically that FGW didnt do anything about sorting the ticket acceptance on local buses for several days but when an MP asked a couple of awkward questions it was all sorted 5 minutes later can you!

 

[richw]

So you can state categorically that FGW didnt do anything about sorting the ticket acceptance on local buses for several days but when an MP asked a couple of awkward questions it was all sorted 5 minutes later can you!

His comments dont match my observations. Acceptance round here was agreed with the buses in under an hour, I therefore can conclude fgw did do something. Maybe some bus companies are more cooperative and it's not Fgw at fault.

 

[21C101]

His comments dont match my observations. Acceptance round here was agreed with the buses in under an hour, I therefore can conclude fgw did do something. Maybe some bus companies are more cooperative and it's not Fgw at fault.

If you read his post, he is talking about a bus operated by First, the 58 from Slough to Uxbridge operated by First Berkshire, not a rival operator.

 

[richw]

If you read his post, he is talking about a bus operated by First, the 58 from Slough to Uxbridge operated by First Berkshire, not a rival operator.

Other than the big parent name, they are all operated as independent companies. Comes down to how cooperative first Berkshire is I'd bet.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm fairly sure I was reading messages on Tyrrell about bus acceptance of train tickets from the beginning of the weather-related disruption. Whether they related specifically to buses around maidenhead I can't remember, maybe somebody on here has access to the archived posts?

I do know that HST's were stopping at Maidenhead to help relieve some of the pressure.

Anyway, this is a silly argument to be having several months after the fact.

If anybody was unhappy with FGW's response, then I apologise, and will cover myself with sackcloth and ashes in an attempt to punish myself for their inconvenience.

(My memory of those weeks is finishing late nearly every day, being switched at very short notice to cover different trains, having Stop Orders thrust into my hand when just about to leave stations, and listening to idiots complaining about "Why is British Rail (sic) not doing anything to publicise the fact that there are delays to the trains?')

 

[HowardGWR]

I'm fairly sure I was reading messages on Tyrrell about bus acceptance of train tickets from the beginning of the weather-related disruption.

What, please, is Tyrrell?

 

[Busaholic]

What, please, is Tyrrell?

Used to be a Formula One racing team, but not sure that helps!

 

[s3an]

I do know that HST's were stopping at Maidenhead to help relieve some of the pressure.

Anyway, this is a silly argument to be having several months after the fact.

If anybody was unhappy with FGW's response, then I apologise, and will cover myself with sackcloth and ashes in an attempt to punish myself for their inconvenience.

(My memory of those weeks is finishing late nearly every day, being switched at very short notice to cover different trains, having Stop Orders thrust into my hand when just about to leave stations, and listening to idiots complaining about "Why is British Rail (sic) not doing anything to publicise the fact that there are delays to the trains?')

I think FGW did a good job at that time. I was traveling to London twice a week then, and they got me there and got me back. Information about what was happening was available.

 

[D1009]

I had always thought that the trademarks for the old railway companies passed to BR, then the SRA and now ORR.

I thought that was why none of the post privatisation companies used the old liveries and company names immediately after privatisation (until Southern Railway came along).

As I understand it, preserved railways through HRA have some sort of offical dispensation.

The Great Western Hotel at Exeter uses the GWR roundel as a logo, but with an H replacing the R.