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FGW - Line blocked between Castle Cary & Taunton

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bnm

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Bnm isn't the one where the incident involving a hst and car occured a week or so ago closer than the one between crediton and yeoford?

It is but that isn't an AOCL. The crossing at Athelney has half barriers and has done since it was converted from a manned and gated crossing decades ago.

You won't find an AOCL on any stretch of line where line speed is above 55mph and at most locations where there are AOCLs there is a much lower limit.

There are only around 100 AOCLs in Great Britain that cross the public highway. Thats just 3% of the total of vehicular level crossings.

Excluding the private West Somerset Railway, there are no AOCLs in Somerset at all.
 
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chuckles1066

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Didn't ask for GPS coordinates.

You were sat at this location for 11 minutes, you timed it, you remember the delay quite clearly

Yes, because I remember, to this day, thinking WTF am I sat here at 3a.m waiting for?

you remember it was an AOCL

Your words, not mine, I don't know what an AOCL is?

you remember it was in the Taunton area, you remember it had CCTV (so it can't be that old)

No CCTV, it had a GATSO-type camera monitoring it.

you are of the opinion that it was on the 'Rail Network'

Again, I don't know what you mean, aren't ALL trains on the "rail network?

you say a train went through eventually.

But you can't tell us where this crossing is. :roll:

Erm, somewhere near Taunton.

I'm sorry if my repeated use of the phrase "near Taunton" was confusing.

And if you're going to dig to try and disprove what I'm saying, feel free......but bear in mind this was probably in the late 1990's.
 

richw

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As far as I know gatso type cameras were not about that common in the late 90s, so this may well help Bnm recall the location, as I believe he lived in that area at that time.
I've never come across a gatso type camera on a level crossing even now, although I've seen the vans with such monitoring equipment
 

Tomnick

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Your words, not mine, I don't know what an AOCL is?
Automatic Open Crossing, Locally monitored: the only type (apart from the rare AOCR...) with lights but no barriers. As I've stated three times now, these are operated either automatically by the approach of the train, or the sequence is started by operation of a plunger by traincrew - and they time out after a short period if no train arrives.
 

bnm

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The line by line rebuttal changes nothing. There are no AOCLs 'near Taunton'.

I can say with complete confidence there weren't any in the late 1990's either.

And just in case we are talking about the West Somerset Railway, theirs have never had Gatso type cameras. The earliest reference I can find of a Gatso being fitted to an AOCL anywhere in the UK is from 2006. This was at Dingwall on the line to Kyle of Lochalsh, fitted as part of a Network Rail trial to test their efficacy for possible wider rollout.

The repeated use of the phrase 'near Taunton' is not confusing me one bit. I'm of the opinion that you, chuckles, are the one that is confused. There are no AOCLs near Taunton on the national network and there weren't in the late 1990s. The nearest ones are on the West Somerset Railway on minor/unclassifed roads, never fitted with Gatso type cameras, and certainly not in areas plagued by hoards of smackheads at 3am. Or any other time for that matter.
 

KA4C

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Erm, somewhere near Taunton.
I'm sorry if my repeated use of the phrase "near Taunton" was confusing.
And if you're going to dig to try and disprove what I'm saying, feel free......but bear in mind this was probably in the late 1990's.

how about where were you going from and to and what road were you on, that might give us a bit of a clue as nothing else that you say does
 

chuckles1066

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how about where were you going from and to and what road were you on, that might give us a bit of a clue as nothing else that you say does

25-odd years ago?

Sorry, can't help you.

All I know is what I said and that is I was sat around thinking "WTF is going on?" and not being able to do anything about it because of the GATSO-type camera monitoring the crossing.

Tomick's assertion that "they time out after a short period if no train arrives" might be true now, it wasn't 25 years ago.

I've no reason to make the story up (my beef with FGW is well known, they provide a p1$$p00r "service" from Patchway)......this occurred years ago and long before I ever had to use (or ever thought I'd need) the rail network.

As for bnm's comprehensive rebuttal of my claim, he/she is wrong.

This all seems a little like Labour voters who deny the Winter Of Discontent happened or that the last lot screwed the economy up so that we're still paying for it today......I wonder why people persist in living their lives in denial of the simple facts?

:roll:
 

OxtedL

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Was Gatso even around 25 years ago?
 

Tomnick

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Chuckles. I don't think any of us are in denial over the operation of AOCLs. Between us, I think we've got that well covered. As far as I know, the time-out after two minutes has always been a feature of these crossings...but red light cameras are relatively recent.

Just one question for those who might know - given the timescales, were there ever any AOCRs around there (which were a little different in operation)?
 

richw

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Was Gatso even around 25 years ago?

FGW certainly wasnt, and his above post almost implies theywere responsible for the incident he alleges.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've already mentioned the location?

This was probably 15 years ago so, no, I can't give you GPS co-ordinates.

25-odd years ago?
Tomick's assertion that "they time out after a short period if no train arrives" might be true now, it wasn't 25 years ago.

I've no reason to make the story up

If only you'd maintained consistency in your story and we may believe you a little more.
 

chuckles1066

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FGW certainly wasnt, and his above post almost implies theywere responsible for the incident he alleges.

If you can point that out then your stance might have some credibility.

I wouldn't have had a clue as to which body were responsible for that stretch of line back then.......I assumed "British Rail" (this is the age of the train so Jimmy Savile kept telling us) ran the rail network?

If only you'd maintained consistency in your story and we may believe you a little more.

Again, if you can point out where I've been inconsistent?

Who'd have thought an honest observation of an incident that happened 20-odd years ago could cause you railways types to raise your hackles in indignation!
 

DXMachina

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Not even on the road network!

Yes, GATSO cameras to detect speeding motorists started appearing around the end of the 1980s to my recollection, cant recall any time where they havent been around (I'm 34 and used to have fun setting them off on a steep hill with a heavy steel-framed BMX)
 

Bald Rick

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Yes, GATSO cameras to detect speeding motorists started appearing around the end of the 1980s to my recollection, cant recall any time where they havent been around (I'm 34 and used to have fun setting them off on a steep hill with a heavy steel-framed BMX)

The first speed camera was switched on in 1992 on the A316 Twickenham Bridge. And I almost got pinched by it a few months later. Traffic light cameras had been around for a couple of years prior, but only in a handful of places.

Fixed cameras at level crossings are still not able to provide evidence for fixed penalty notices, but can be used as evidence in court.
 

richw

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The first speed camera was switched on in 1992 on the A316 Twickenham Bridge. And I almost got pinched by it a few months later. Traffic light cameras had been around for a couple of years prior, but only in a handful of places.

Fixed cameras at level crossings are still not able to provide evidence for fixed penalty notices, but can be used as evidence in court.

The first Gatso cameras were traffic light cameras, the first was used in Nottingham from 1988.
 

bnm

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Interesting, and possibly worrying, initial report from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch:

From the RAIB:

Fatal accident at Athelney automatic half barrier level crossing, near Taunton, Somerset

At about 06:23 hrs on Thursday 21 March 2013, train 1A73, the 05:46 hrs First Great Western service from Exeter St. Davids to London Paddington struck a car which was crossing the railway at Athelney level crossing near Taunton, Somerset. The driver of the car, who was its sole occupant, was killed in the collision.

The crossing is of the automatic half barrier type. At such crossings one barrier on each side of the railway is automatically lowered to block half of the road and thus prohibit approaching vehicles from passing through. The lowering of the barriers is preceded by the operation of flashing road traffic signals, which then continue to operate until the barriers are raised.

Evidence gathered to date suggests that the car had been detained at the crossing with the barriers down and the road traffic signals working correctly. The car was then driven round the crossing barriers and onto the crossing where the collision occurred.

The crossing closure sequence would normally be automatically initiated by an approaching train. For trains approaching at the maximum permitted speed of 100 mph (160 km/h), the warning lights start to flash around 27-28 seconds before the train arrives, and the barriers start to lower around 20 seconds before the train arrives. However, on this occasion the crossing closure sequence commenced earlier. This was because the previous train, an engineers’ on-track machine, had passed through the crossing in the opposite direction to normal. Under these circumstances, the configuration of the signalling controls at the crossing meant that the closure sequence started when the signaller set the route through the crossing for train 1A73.

The RAIB’s investigation will examine the sequence of events and the factors that may have influenced the actions of the car driver. It will also include an assessment of the design of the signalling controls for Athelney level crossing and a review of the arrangements made to manage the risk from automatic level crossing barriers being in the lowered position for variable periods of time.

The RAIB's investigation is independent of any investigation by the safety authority (the Office of Rail Regulation) or the British Transport Police.

The RAIB will publish a report, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of its investigation. This report will be available on the RAIB website.

Ultimately, if the sequence of events is as described then we still have a road vehicle user who chose to ignore a correctly functioning crossing. But his reason for choosing to weave round the barriers may have been in the mistaken belief that the crossing had failed, whereas what actually happened is that the crossing sequence had been activated by route setting rather than automatically by an approaching train. Of course the correct action if you believe a crossing has failed is to use the crossing telephone to speak to the signaller. You should never weave around the barriers.

Food for thought and the full report, in particular the human factors, will make for very interesting reading.
 
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