FGW - Line blocked between Castle Cary & Taunton

[yorksrob]

... as a generalisation, because the roads were there first and the railway cut a swathe through the countryside across the roads and not under or over them, perhaps.

One could also make the argument that when the railways were built, road transport consisted largely of horse and cart (with maybe the odd traction engine thrown in), so the phenomenum of fast vehicles being able to try and dart over crossings is a relatively new danger that the railway shouldn't be expected to have to pay to alleviate.

 

[Goatboy]

I was at Cosham station yesterday.

On two seperate occasions when two trains were due the barriers over the level crossing closed a full 5 minutes - I timed it - before the first train passed. You can imagine why experiences like this might tempt the more idiotic of motorists into thinking going round closing gates are a gamble worth taking.

 

[chuckles1066]

I was at Cosham station yesterday.

On two seperate occasions when two trains were due the barriers over the level crossing closed a full 5 minutes - I timed it - before the first train passed. You can imagine why experiences like this might tempt the more idiotic of motorists into thinking going round closing gates are a gamble worth taking.

Only 5?

There's a crossing with no barriers (but a camera) down near Taunton that I had the misfortune of coming across many years ago at 3a.m and I sat for eleven minutes before the train went through.

Yes, I timed it.

Now, there may be a safety issue with a vehicle sat stationary for eleven minutes at red lights that the driver can't jump because he/she will be flashed.....there are plenty of smackheads on Britain's streets at that time of night.......but the Rail Network weren't interested.

If they want level crossings to be taken seriously, don't drop the drawbridge 11 minutes before anything is due.

Youguys MUST be able to see that? Please tell me that you can?

 

[455driver]

Apart from having the crash resistance of a Walkers packet

In the voice of Rodney Trotter-

"well dont have a crash then"!

 

[Ferret]

I was at Cosham station yesterday.

On two seperate occasions when two trains were due the barriers over the level crossing closed a full 5 minutes - I timed it - before the first train passed. You can imagine why experiences like this might tempt the more idiotic of motorists into thinking going round closing gates are a gamble worth taking.

I see where you're coming from, but how many reminders do people need that it isn't worth the gamble? I guess some are just intent on removing themselves from the gene pool.

 

[Goatboy]

I see where you're coming from, but how many reminders do people need that it isn't worth the gamble? I guess some are just intent on removing themselves from the gene pool.

Don't for one minute think I'm trying to defend the morons who do this. My views on drivers who jump level crossing lights are consistent on this forum.

However, I can see why those who think they are more important than everyone else might take the risk given what I saw at Cosham. No wonder some people think they've got ages after the barriers fall and will be there for a long time if the experience they have with LC's is similar to those at Cosham.

 

[umontu]

Only 5?

There's a crossing with no barriers (but a camera) down near Taunton that I had the misfortune of coming across many years ago at 3a.m and I sat for eleven minutes before the train went through.

Yes, I timed it.

Now, there may be a safety issue with a vehicle sat stationary for eleven minutes at red lights that the driver can't jump because he/she will be flashed.....there are plenty of smackheads on Britain's streets at that time of night.......but the Rail Network weren't interested.

If they want level crossings to be taken seriously, don't drop the drawbridge 11 minutes before anything is due.

Youguys MUST be able to see that? Please tell me that you can?

Agreed. I think there should be a minimum and maximum time for the barriers as opposed to the aprox 30 seconds before rule that there is now otherwise this will keep happening. Some drivers can be real idiots who think everything will get out of their way, I've nearly been run over enough times on the pedestrian crossing near my flat to know/ witnessed others nearly being hit.

 

[Tomnick]

There's a crossing with no barriers (but a camera) down near Taunton that I had the misfortune of coming across many years ago at 3a.m and I sat for eleven minutes before the train went through.

...

If they want level crossings to be taken seriously, don't drop the drawbridge 11 minutes before anything is due.

A level crossing with lights but no barriers (or, presumably, gates)? Must be an AOCL then: the sequence is usually started when the approaching train operates a treadle, or by manual operation of a plunger otherwise... either way, they (usually?) time out after two or three minutes. Sounds a bit like nonsense to me!

Agreed. I think there should be a minimum and maximum time for the barriers as opposed to the aprox 30 seconds before rule that there is now otherwise this will keep happening. Some drivers can be real idiots who think everything will get out of their way, I've nearly been run over enough times on the pedestrian crossing near my flat to know/ witnessed others nearly being hit.

What "30 seconds before rule"? The delay to motorists depends, to a certain extent, on the type of crossing - at an AHB (or AOCL/ABCL), it will normally be somewhere around half a minute before the train arrives, whereas a full-barrier (MCB or CCTV) crossing needs to be proved clear before the protecting signal can be cleared... necessarily increasing the 'delay' to two or three minutes if the train isn't to be signal checked.

 

[455driver]

What "30 seconds before rule"? The delay to motorists depends, to a certain extent, on the type of crossing - at an AHB (or AOCL/ABCL), it will normally be somewhere around half a minute before the train arrives,

Half a minute, we have got several AHB where we watch the full sequence including cars crossing, yellow lights, red lights through to barriers dropping, quite un-nerving the first few times at 90mph, they are not down for 30 seconds before we get there, its more like 10 seconds.

whereas a full-barrier (MCB or CCTV) crossing needs to be proved clear before the protecting signal can be cleared... necessarily increasing the 'delay' to two or three minutes if the train isn't to be signal checked.

Exactly right, not forgetting that they will want the barriers down and signals cleared before the train gets to the distant.

 

[Tomnick]

Half a minute, we have got several AHB where we watch the full sequence including cars crossing, yellow lights, red lights through to barriers dropping, quite un-nerving the first few times at 90mph, they are not down for 30 seconds before we get there, its more like 10 seconds.

Quite right - apologies, to be clear, I was referring to the whole sequence from the amber road lights first illuminating to train arriving (which should be 27 (?) seconds for a train at line speed) rather than the time that the barriers are actually down (as you say, a matter of seconds - not a problem if the crossing is being used correctly, but not providing a lot of incentive for misuse either!)

Exactly right, not forgetting that they will want the barriers down and signals cleared before the train gets to the distant.

Indeed - I think that's where we (as an industry, rather than any individual) could do better sometimes. In some places, the workload is such that the Signalman has no choice but to lower the barriers 'too early', or leave them down between trains when he might otherwise have been able to at least clear some traffic, so that he can focus his attention elsewhere.

On the other hand, the method of working at one busy crossing around here, right on the end of a platform, was changed - stopping passengers used to come in on a delayed yellow with the barriers raised. That was changed a few years ago, to allow them to come in under clear signals (leading to the barriers being down for the best part of five or six minutes), not because of the risk of overrun (stopping passengers can still come in on the delayed yellow if the forward section's still occupied) but because the timetable wasn't working. I know we're all here to run trains not cars, but an extra half minute on the approach to the station in question wouldn't be the end of the world...!

 

[Crossover]

Half a minute, we have got several AHB where we watch the full sequence including cars crossing, yellow lights, red lights through to barriers dropping, quite un-nerving the first few times at 90mph, they are not down for 30 seconds before we get there, its more like 10 seconds.

Bear in mind that (this is my understanding/remembering what has been said on here before, so hopefully it won't be too skewed as time has passed) it is 26 seconds from the strike in point (and the sequence being initiated) to the train arriving at the LC.

So yes, the 26 seconds takes into account the yellows, flashing reds and barriers down so the barriers could well only be down for 10-15 seconds before you get to them.

The only place I have really observed such a crossing was at Habrough on the Cleethorpes line as we had a bit of time to wait there. The track is relatively straight so I could see it coming towards the Doncaster (Mount Hatfield :P) bound platform before it got to the strike-in point. From the moment the barrier sequence started, I did time it as being pretty much bang on the 26 seconds before the (non-stop) train came through the LC (and subsequently, the platform we were on)

 

[455driver]

I will time them next time I am down there, I am on holiday at the moment topping up my tan, not!

edit-

There is another AHB where we are pulling away from a station and get to within 400yds of it before the sequence starts, again a bit un-nerving to start with!
This would fit in with the 26 second timing.

 

[AndyPJG]

Strike-in point should be 29 secs away at line speed on single lines, and 39 secs on multiple lines (to allow for second train coming).

The original philosophy for the introduction of AHBs was to reduce delays for road users by removing the need to close barriers early. Pity some people don't have patience to wait for less than a minute, and respect the lights.

 

[bnm]

Only 5?

There's a crossing with no barriers (but a camera) down near Taunton that I had the misfortune of coming across many years ago at 3a.m and I sat for eleven minutes before the train went through.

Yes, I timed it.

Now, there may be a safety issue with a vehicle sat stationary for eleven minutes at red lights that the driver can't jump because he/she will be flashed.....there are plenty of smackheads on Britain's streets at that time of night.......but the Rail Network weren't interested.

If they want level crossings to be taken seriously, don't drop the drawbridge 11 minutes before anything is due.

Youguys MUST be able to see that? Please tell me that you can?

As far as I'm aware there are no AOCL crossings on the main network near Taunton. The nearest I can think of would be on the Exeter-Barnstaple line. On very minor roads in the sticks. Now, there a couple on the private West Somerset Railway. But I can't see that you are referring to them when you are castigating Network Rail.

I'd love to know where this open crossing is. If you can remember being sat there for 11 minutes worried about your safety with roaming hoards of smackheads then surely you can enlighten us as to the location. incidentally, smackheads rarely roam the streets looking for people in stationary vehicles waiting at level crossings.

:roll:

 

[chuckles1066]

I'd love to know where this open crossing is. If you can remember being sat there for 11 minutes worried about your safety with roaming hoards of smackheads then surely you can enlighten us as to the location

I've already mentioned the location?

This was probably 15 years ago so, no, I can't give you GPS co-ordinates.

I'd imagine there must be a map somewhere detailing where these things are......unless the UK is Eastern Germany circa 1972?

 

[Tomnick]

Strike-in point should be 29 secs away at line speed on single lines, and 39 secs on multiple lines (to allow for second train coming).

I thought it was 27secs, but I could be convinced that it's 29. I think it changed from one to the other at some point? More importantly, I just wanted to note that, although you're of course correct to suggest that the strike-in on a double line is 39 (or 37?) seconds away from the crossing, nothing happens in terms of the crossing sequence (other than preventing the barriers rising behind a train on the opposite line) for the first ten seconds.

If you can remember being sat there for 11 minutes worried about your safety with roaming hoards of smackheads then surely you can enlighten us as to the location. incidentally, smackheads rarely roam the streets looking for people in stationary vehicles waiting at level crossings.

Evidently it's a widespread problem in rural Somerset .

 

[bnm]

Evidently it's a widespread problem in rural Somerset .

I've lived in rural Somerset, near to one of the aforementioned AOCL's on the West Somerset Railway. At 3am you were more likely to come across someone asleep at the wheel after one too many pints of scrumpy than you were a smackhead. You certainly wouldn't be disturbed by a train.

 

[chuckles1066]

You certainly wouldn't be disturbed by a train.

Well certainly not within 11 minutes of the red lights showing, I agree.

I repeat: if the rail network wants to discourage the Daily Wail from publishing stories of Joe Pleb taking his/her chances against those of a level crossing, then drop the barriers/show the lights using a realistic timeframe.

That's not asking much, is it?

 

[455driver]

Where is this level crossing exactly?

I am intrigued.

 

[bnm]

I repeat: if the rail network wants to discourage the Daily Wail from publishing stories of Joe Pleb taking his/her chances against those of a level crossing, then drop the barriers/show the lights using a realistic timeframe.

And if you want us to believe you waited at an AOCL in the Taunton area for 11 minutes at 3am, worried about hoards of smackheads (you are Richard Littlejohn and I claim my £5), the least you could do is tell us the location.

You'll be doing a public service after all. Others will know to avoid the crossing. :roll:

 

[Tomnick]

I'm (still) intrigued too. I don't think there's a single crossing in the country where the barriers would routinely be lowered eleven minutes before the (first) train arrives at the crossing*. It's the fact that you've perfectly described an AOCL (lights but no barriers) that really exposes the biggest hole in the story - these will time out after a short period (two minutes, I think - whether that's standard across them all, I don't know) if no train passes. Further information would be helpful, but perhaps we'll just keep repeating the same nonsense without actually reading the intervening posts...!

* - it does happen sometimes, for example if a train's delayed in a station with signals cleared over a crossing. Approach locking means that you can't just put the signals back and raise the barriers immediately, so by the time that's timed out (something like seven minutes from when the signal's cleared here, but more normally two to four minutes from when it's replaced) you'll be getting on for ten or eleven minutes if the train (as is usually the case!) is ready to start again just as you're about to raise the barriers!

 

[KA4C]

Where is this level crossing exactly?

I am intrigued.

So am I

 

[chuckles1066]

And if you want us to believe you waited at an AOCL in the Taunton area for 11 minutes at 3am, worried about hoards of smackheads (you are Richard Littlejohn and I claim my £5), the least you could do is tell us the location.

You'll be doing a public service after all. Others will know to avoid the crossing. :roll:

I don't know who Richard Littlejohn is and I don't care. I DO know it was eleven minutes......if you wish to scoff then please feel free, it doesn't change what happened.

This occurred many moons ago (as I indicated in my previous post). If I'd known that, years later, I would have to provide GPS co-ordinates to "prove" my story then, had GPS co-ordinates been available back then, I'd have noted them.

There can't be that many lights-only crossings near Taunton, surely?

 

[455driver]

IThere can't be that many lights-only crossings near Taunton, surely?

I cant think of any!

 

[Tomnick]

I think it's fairly understandable that those of us with a bit of knowledge and experience are asking questions - refer to comments above about the lack of AOCLs in the parish, the fact that they're usually operated automatically by the approach of a train and that they time out after a short period. It all seems rather irrelevant anyway - if there was an AOCL (or any sort of automatic crossing) which kept you waiting for eleven minutes, it's clearly not a routine delay as a direct result of.someone's actions, but rather some sort of fault or out-of-course working.

 

[richw]

I cant think of any!

Me neither, so I took to following all the railway lines in the area on google maps in satellite and streetview. I still don't know of any!

I also find myself feeling quite safe at night in taunton, whenever I have been, even on Friday/ Saturday nights

 

[Bald Rick]

I cant think of any!

Perhaps it was the fire station....

 

[Tomnick]

Perhaps it was the fire station....

I never thought of that one! Perhaps Chuckles could let us know whether the 'train', when it eventually arrived, was red with flashing blue lights...?

 

[bnm]

This occurred many moons ago (as I indicated in my previous post). If I'd known that, years later, I would have to provide GPS co-ordinates to "prove" my story then, had GPS co-ordinates been available back then, I'd have noted them.

Didn't ask for GPS coordinates.

You were sat at this location for 11 minutes, you timed it, you remember the delay quite clearly, you remember it was an AOCL, you remember it was in the Taunton area, you remember it had CCTV (so it can't be that old), you are of the opinion that it was on the 'Rail Network', you say a train went through eventually.

But you can't tell us where this crossing is. :roll:

There can't be that many lights-only crossings near Taunton, surely?

You're right on that point. Of AOCL crossings on the 'Rail Network' near Taunton, there are precisely... none. Nada. Zilch. Nil.

There are some on the private West Somerset Railway, which you could argue is near Taunton. These are in rural locations, where the chance of there being hoards of smackheads at 3am to be genuinely afeared of is neglible. The nearest AOCL to Taunton on the 'Rail Network' is on the Exeter - Barnstaple line between Crediton and Yeoford.

I don't believe you.

 

[richw]

Bnm isn't the one where the incident involving a hst and car occured a week or so ago closer than the one between crediton and yeoford?