FGW - Line blocked between Castle Cary & Taunton

[455driver]

Whats the line speed in this section? 125?

I think its about 110.

 

[AndyPJG]

Whats the line speed in this section? 125?

100mph

 

[Inox]

Judging from the photo, the HST seems to have taken the impact rather well, thankfully it wasn't another Ufton Nervet. Dread to think how traumatising the incident was for the train driver.

from memory the Ufton Nervet accident was exasperated by the train hitting points shortly after hitting the parked car. I think that's right.

I can' see any points on the track near Athelney.

 

[455driver]

I wasnt far off!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

from memory the Ufton Nervet accident was exasperated by the train hitting points shortly after hitting the parked car. I think that's right.

I can' see any points on the track near Athelney.

The train at Ufton Nervert derailed and then hit the points, there was no derailment here so any points would have had no effect.

Ufton Nervert was just one of those situations where everything went wrong to make the situation as bad as possible.

 

[Old-School]

How about this displayed at every level crossing.....

Thought for the day "You may be in a hurry. You may use a level crossing every day. You may even think you know when the train is coming. But if you risk misusing level crossings then you're putting your life, and your family's, as well as the train drivers, on-board train staff and not to forget the trains passengers at risk.

Level Crossings: they're Life Savers not Time Wasters

 

[Tomnick]

Interestingly in the recent BBC series one of the Network Rail guys stated something along the lines of "Manned crossings aren't safe" "These people seem to believe it rightly or wrongly"
Now forgive my ignorance but full barriers and a person watching the crossing seems safer to me, they'd likely learn local attitudes to the crossing and would be more likely to spot an incident before a single person in a huge box in control of many crossings.

It's not really relevant - that item was comparing MCBs with CCTV crossings. I don't think many people, NR included, would disagree with a claim that there are more risks involved with AHBs...there's no "single person in a huge box" involved with, or monitoring, the state of the crossing in this case.

Thats why there should be one way spikes on the side of the road without barriers.

Brilliant idea - I can see it now. Vehicle attempts to weave around barriers, runs over spikes (I'm sure they'll only stop you at low speed) and ends up immobilised in the middle of the crossing.

 

[bnm]

The limiting factor for the line speed is the Automatic Half Barrier level crossing itself. Where they are in operation, the maximum permissible speed is 100mph.

 

[Zoidberg]

How about this displayed at every level crossing.....

Thought for the day "You may be in a hurry. You may use a level crossing every day. You may even think you know when the train is coming. But if you risk misusing level crossings then you're putting your life, and your family's, as well as the train drivers, on-board train staff and not to forget the trains passengers at risk.

Level Crossings: they're Life Savers not Time Wasters

Too much to read unless approaching slowly on foot

 

[Monty]

How about this displayed at every level crossing.....

Thought for the day "You may be in a hurry. You may use a level crossing every day. You may even think you know when the train is coming. But if you risk misusing level crossings then you're putting your life, and your family's, as well as the train drivers, on-board train staff and not to forget the trains passengers at risk.

Level Crossings: they're Life Savers not Time Wasters

Displaying images of what happens when a car tries to outrun a train would be far simpler. One could even argue it could get the point across far quicker too, if not somewhat in a slightly morbid fashion.

 

[KA4C]

Anything but the (car) drivers fault isnt it! :roll:

I drive trains over AHBs quite often (most days actually), guess how many times I have had them fail in the up position, actually fail at all?
Guess how many times I have seen cars go over the crossing with the lights flashing and the barriers either lowering or lowered?

You are entitled to your opinion however misinformed or silly it is but instead of posting your misinformed drivel why dont you wait for some official statement rather than post your anti-rail propaganda!

Eyewitnesses (other car drivers) and early evidence from the train driver seems to be saying that Athelney barriers were down and that the car weaved them

HST would be just getting up to 100 mph there

(PS, I agree with you, in all my time on the job, I have only ever had AHB's fail in the down position)

 

[Tomnick]

It's not unknown for trains to pass over them (at line speed) with the barriers raised - see the RAIB report into the near miss recently at Ufton Nervet (possibly - or another crossing nearby?) where a Driver wasn't stopped and cautioned whilst the crossing was on local control. It's certainly very unusual though!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Displaying images of what happens when a car tries to outrun a train would be far simpler. One could even argue it could get the point across far quicker too, if not somewhat in a slightly morbid fashion.

Given the state of the car involved in this morning's incident, I think that would work- Some might consider it morbid, but it might make people think before risking the barrier-weave. A great big billboard showing a photo of the flattened car would be a pretty stark warning.

Of course, my thoughts are with the deceased friends and family though.

 

[richw]

(PS, I agree with you, in all my time on the job, I have only ever had AHB's fail in the down position)

There has been a set failed near Camborne in the down position since Monday with engineers apparently been working on the scene all this time.

In this incident, only the car driver will know why he jumped the crossing lights so we will never know, but I doubt suicide was involved from the eye witness statements that have been provided to various medias, and simply impatience.

 

[45669]

Although nothing to do with today's incident, I remember something that happened one morning at Offord Crossing on the ECML between St. Neots and Huntingdon. Trains on the fast lines can be doing up to 115 mph at this point.

As I approached the crossing in the car, the yellow lights began to flash. "Oh b*gg*r!", I thought. (I didn't have time for trainspotting on the way to work!) So what did I do? I stopped.

And then, from the car behind me, I got a loud "toot, toot, toooot" from the horn. I looked in the rear view mirror and could see the driver frantically waving me to go forward. By this time, however, the barriers were coming down, so I stayed firmly where I was and turned the engine off so as to not pollute the atmosphere whilst waiting.

Someone that I used to know once saw the car in front of him jump the red flashing lights at Offord just as the barriers started to fall. He managed to get the registration number and went up to the 'box to give the number to the signalman. As it happened, the signalman had also got the number, but was pleased to have had it confirmed by a third party.

 

[KA4C]

It's not unknown for trains to pass over them (at line speed) with the barriers raised - see the RAIB report into the near miss recently at Ufton Nervet (possibly - or another crossing nearby?) where a Driver wasn't stopped and cautioned whilst the crossing was on local control. It's certainly very unusual though!

Yeah, but that was not normal operation, was it?

 

[Tomnick]

No, but the end result was nearly the same! Similarly, they're very occasionally left on local control when normal working has otherwise been resumed. I don't know whether equipment failure has ever resulted in an AHB failing to operate for a train - unlikely (TC failing to drop and both treadles not working), but possible I suppose.

 

[RPI]

I'm sorry to sound harsh but like most have said, IF the version of events that is public is true, and it looks very likely, then there is no excuse for this act of stupidity, I personally don't care what was going through their head when they were doing it, it doesn't excuse the fact that they could have killed everyone on that train and there was a school party on board.
Just glad that everyone on the train was OK.

 

[Essexman]

11.06 from Paddington was 13 minutes late at Tiverton. Only 7 down at Bristol but got behind a local train to Weston Super Mare.
16.17 back was on time.

Excellent information provided by the Train Managers.
Information at Paddington however could have been better.

As for stopping such incidents - There should be CCTV that is guarenteed to record number of any car that crosses on red lights, 10 month driving ban and 6 months prison for anyone endangering life on crossings.
Certainty of being caught and severe punishmnet would certainly reduce frequency of such incidents.

 

[tsr]

Anything but the (car) drivers fault isnt it! :roll:

I drive trains over AHBs quite often (most days actually), guess how many times I have had them fail in the up position, actually fail at all?
Guess how many times I have seen cars go over the crossing with the lights flashing and the barriers either lowering or lowered?

You are entitled to your opinion however misinformed or silly it is but instead of posting your misinformed drivel why dont you wait for some official statement rather than post your anti-rail propaganda!

Not at all. I am sure we will find that this was largely caused by the car driver's actions. As we have seen from this and other threads, however, faults at LCs do occur from time to time, as do suicides. I am not concluding or even actively suggesting this is what happened here. Merely mentioning that we should not assume these were not factors in the incident.

For some reason I suspect you won't believe me when I say I have seen LCs fail in all sorts of states, but funnily enough I have.

My point is that we should wait for the official statements. I am in fact highlighting more remote but nonetheless plausible causes which could give an insight into why blaming it wholly on the car driver's mindset could be somewhat foolish.

As for "drivel", and "anti-rail" propaganda... I don't think ANYONE on this forum has ever accused me of those before, and I fail to see how my reasonable consideration of factors which could be involved is in any way able to fit in with this description of what I've said. Please clarify.

 

[Southern313]

Must say I got to agree with RPI. Red lights, barriers down on your side of the road means stop. Simple as. I cannot for the life of me understand why people just can't wait...less then a minute usually at these sort of crossings and eliminate the risk to themselves and passengers on the train.

The punishments when people are caught ignoring/jumping the barriers need to be harsher and that includes the muppets who jump over barriers, one of which I narrowly missed a couple months ago.

 

[tsr]

Must say I got to agree with RPI. Red lights, barriers down on your side of the road means stop. Simple as. I cannot for the life of me understand why people just can't wait...less then a minute usually at these sort of crossings and eliminate the risk to themselves and passengers on the train.

The punishments when people are caught ignoring/jumping the barriers need to be harsher and that includes the muppets who jump over barriers, one of which I narrowly missed a couple months ago.

You are correct. I have absolutely no dispute whatsoever that people should be trying their absolute utmost to stay behind the barriers and red lights.

The following is not aimed at your post, exactly, but I must clarify.

Because we have not seen any investigation documents (unless I am much mistaken), we cannot possibly rule out anything. It simply shouldn't be the done thing for enthusiasts or staff to rule out a possible factor in an accident because they don't like to hear about it or because it puts their colleagues/friends/hobby at risk of blame, even if the factor is incredibly remote. Likewise - absolutely equally - nobody should try to absolve the car driver of blame from a road safety or personal point of view.

Naturally, I acknowledge the abilities, benefits and presence of all the fail-safe and safety-critical technologies relating to LCs, but nothing at all is perfect in life. It is very rare for a fault to make an LC unsafe for motorists. But it could in theory happen. And given we have nothing on paper other than speculative media reports and brief reports from the ground, I feel we should not randomly discount theories. Eyewitnesses may be right. Equally they may be traumatised or unclear about events and thus mistaken.

 

[Cab2Cab]

When the barriers come down perhaps their ought to a sign on the barrier with comments " you are on camera, or this crossing is under surveillance", perhaps have dummy camera's on the crossing, like they do on the roads (that always makes motorists think).

If it was a suicide there is nothing you could have done but if it was risk taking well?...........

Sad day again.

 

[ushawk]

Must say I got to agree with RPI. Red lights, barriers down on your side of the road means stop. Simple as. I cannot for the life of me understand why people just can't wait...less then a minute usually at these sort of crossings and eliminate the risk to themselves and passengers on the train.

The punishments when people are caught ignoring/jumping the barriers need to be harsher and that includes the muppets who jump over barriers, one of which I narrowly missed a couple months ago.

Its society these days that people are just too impatient and would do anything to save a few minutes.

A couple of months ago i was on a bus going over the level crossing at Hampden Park in Sussex, the Amber warning light came on and the bus started to slow but as the flashing red lights came on the bus accelerated quite fast and sped over the crossing just as the barriers started to come down.

Needless to say, i reported it to the company (Stagecoach) and i have since found out that the driver has been dismissed as the bus had onboard CCTV including a front facing camera, which confirmed everything. Just shows how stupid people can be these days and in some cases it is a "moment of madness".

 

[Southern313]

On a slightly lighter side, the usual arguments for full barrier crossing everywhere has flooded the Daily Mail site...but this comment did make me laugh.

"Is it me or do those barriers seem really short - as in only long enough to cover half the width of the road? Surely double barriers covering the full wide of the road MIGHT have prevented this tradegy"

*Bangs head against brick wall

 

[455driver]

It's not unknown for trains to pass over them (at line speed) with the barriers raised - see the RAIB report into the near miss recently at Ufton Nervet (possibly - or another crossing nearby?) where a Driver wasn't stopped and cautioned whilst the crossing was on local control. It's certainly very unusual though!

that is not a crossing failure is it! :roll:

It was Ufton Nervert.

 

[craigwilson]

Interestingly in the recent BBC series one of the Network Rail guys stated something along the lines of "Manned crossings aren't safe" "These people seem to believe it rightly or wrongly"
Now forgive my ignorance but full barriers and a person watching the crossing seems safer to me, they'd likely learn local attitudes to the crossing and would be more likely to spot an incident before a single person in a huge box in control of many crossings.

So why, in the eyes of NR, would I that gentleman and the people in the tv show be wrong in that reasoning?

Because all crossings are safe when used correctly, its when "people" abuse the crossings that things can go wrong!

Is that the fault of the crossing?

I agree with 455driver here. If that BBC programmed proved anything, it was that the prescence of the crossing-keeper just made the locals more complacent.

Folk should take responsibility for their own actions, and just use level crossings properly, without needing a crossing keeper to think for them and watch out for them.

 

[A0]

Thats why there should be one way spikes on the side of the road without barriers.

Right..... so that the fool who decides to dodge the barriers regardless ends up with punctured tyres and is more likely to get stranded on the crossing?

I'm not for one minute condoning people who dodge AHBs, but even if you put such measures in place you'll still have a few who take the risk and measures such as your suggestion will increase the risk of incidents, not decrease it.

Ultimately as a society we have to decide whether or not it is acceptable to have level crossings at all.

As we know, Bob Crow will doubtless be demanding the removal of all level crossings immediately.

To my mind, that's impractical and in probably 80% of cases totally unnecessary. Where the crossing is on a main line with high linespeeds there is a case for looking to remove them as part of other engineering work - e.g. when the WCML modernisation was done, the crossing near Fosters Booth in Northants was removed and bridge put in its place - eminently sensible. Is it sensible or practical to try to remove every last level crossing on the network ? No, probably not. People have to take responsibility for their actions - occasionally somebody will do something stupid - but you can't legislate against every eventuality.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd be interested to know how widespread level crossing abuse/compliance is in other countries- Is this complacence and impatience a 'British' problem? I get the impression that in the US, the "I'm not waiting!" attitude is even more widespread (though I don't have any statistics to back this up!).

 

[Cab2Cab]

I'd be interested to know how widespread level crossing abuse/compliance is in other countries- Is this complacence and impatience a 'British' problem? I get the impression that in the US, the "I'm not waiting!" attitude is even more widespread (though I don't have any statistics to back this up!).

Interesting point,

I have been to Australia (Melbourne, best friend emigrated) so i was on the outskirts of the city and one thing that stuck out at me was the level crossings and timings.

There are half barriers on main roads, the bells go, barriers down and you can see the train in the distance. The time is immensely alot shorter for traffic to be stood and i would estimate the trains passing at 50-60 mph.

Oz seem to be alot more relaxed on life and not as impatience as us british.

 

[Tomnick]

that is not a crossing failure is it! :roll:

Quite right, of course, but it'll still probably result in one going across at line speed - that was my point! Please don't think that I'm defending this motorist's actions in any way though, or even suggesting that the crossing equipment was to blame here. I was just responding to a single post...so apologies for taking it off on such a tangent!