FGW- Intention to Prosecute Letter

[rm_81]

I traveled without a ticket and was caught by fare inspector of FGW at Ealing Broadway. During my conversation with him I was told to tell truth and be honest so that he can help me. I also asked him that I am ready to pay the fine but I was told that it is not possible to do so. However I received a letter from their prosecution team about intention of prosecution and taking me to magistrate court. The letter mentioned that I was found traveling without valid ticket. They have asked me to respond back with honest and facts within 21 days. Need your help please as I am so tensed and scared. I am thinking of writing to them apologizing for my mistake and telling them that I had full intention of buying ticket and it was honest mistake. I was running late as my wife was waiting for me ( she is pregnant), and was not very well due to which I had to rush and could not afford missing the train.

Is there any way an out of court settlement can be done between me and FGW. Can you please advice me what to write to them. Also is it possible for me to go in person to their prosecution office with my plea.

 

[cuccir]

In order to help, we need to know more details of the incident. Please could you provide the following:

* The station where you started your journey;
* The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
* Was there (to your knowledge) an open ticket office and/or Ticket Vending Machine at the station you started your journey from?
* You say that you "traveled without a ticket". Can you confirm that you held no ticket at all for the journey that you made?
* What exactly did you tell the member of railway staff? Did you try to show them any out of date or invalid tickets? Did you tell the truth straight away, when first asked?

Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying

 

[rm_81]

In order to help, we need to know more details of the incident. Please could you provide the following:

* The station where you started your journey;
* The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
* Was there (to your knowledge) an open ticket office and/or Ticket Vending Machine at the station you started your journey from?
* You say that you "traveled without a ticket". Can you confirm that you held no ticket at all for the journey that you made?
* What exactly did you tell the member of railway staff? Did you try to show them any out of date or invalid tickets? Did you tell the truth straight away, when first asked?

Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying

Hello cuccir
- Started from Canning Town
- Was changing from Underground to National Rail at Ealing Broadway
- There is Ticket Vending Machine but there was long queue to it
- I had a pre pay oyster but that did not had enough balance.
- I did not show any out of date or invalid ticket. The railway staff was told truth that I traveled by mistake and I had full intention of buying ticket.
Also the notice defines the Offense as " Intention of boarding a train without a valid ticket for the journey":cry::cry:

 

[455driver]

It sounds by what you have written, that you are a persistent offender who has finally been caught and now realised it isnt as good a game as you thought it was.

They are asking you why you were travelling without a ticket and if you dont have a valid reason then it is Court for you, they might accept an out of Court settlement but could also make an example of you as a deterrent to all the other fare dodgers on that route and there are many of them.
They are rather fed up with the amount a fare evasion so are starting to buck their ideas up and actually do something about it.

You say you would like to pay the fine but a fine can only be imposed by a Court, a penalty fare can be issued by the RPI if they think you have made a genuine mistake. The RPI obviously believes that after questioning you that you had deliberately tried to evade the fare due hence the possibility of Court action.

 

[rm_81]

Hello 455 Driver
This is not correct. I am not fare evader. I am a responsible citizen of this country, a home owner a would be father who works in very reputed company . I cannot take any unwanted risk or chance which can hit my employment etc as I have got a pregnant wife and also mortgage to pay.
This was an honest mistake on my behalf. The letter which was send to me by FGW explained the offense " As intention of boarding a train without a valid ticket".

 

[LateThanNever]

It sounds by what you have written, that you are a persistent offender who has finally been caught and now realised it isnt as good a game as you thought it was.

They are asking you why you were travelling without a ticket and if you dont have a valid reason then it is Court for you, they might accept an out of Court settlement but could also make an example of you as a deterrent to all the other fare dodgers on that route and there are many of them.
They are rather fed up with the amount a fare evasion so are starting to buck their ideas up and actually do something about it.

You say you would like to pay the fine but a fine can only be imposed by a Court, a penalty fare can be issued by the RPI if they think you have made a genuine mistake. The RPI obviously believes that after questioning you that you had deliberately tried to evade the fare due hence the possibility of Court action.

Are you on the bench or in the jury?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Wasn't the OP offered a PF?

 

[455driver]

Are you on the bench or in the jury?

I wear a funny wig if that helps!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't the OP offered a PF?

Not by what he wrote, no.

 

[yorkie]

Wasn't the OP offered a PF?

No, the OP asked if it was possible to pay a "fine" (for clarity, he means a Penalty Fare) but the inspector had reason to believe that this was not a mistake for which a Penalty Fare would be appropriate, but instead the matter is of potential fare evasion, and therefore should be dealt with by the Prosecutions department.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hello cuccir
- Started from Canning Town
- Was changing from Underground to National Rail at Ealing Broadway
- There is Ticket Vending Machine but there was long queue to it
- I had a pre pay oyster but that did not had enough balance.
- I did not show any out of date or invalid ticket. The railway staff was told truth that I traveled by mistake and I had full intention of buying ticket.
Also the notice defines the Offense as " Intention of boarding a train without a valid ticket for the journey":cry::cry:

Although I am familiar with Canning Town for interchange purposes, I have not entered this station, however I am reasonably certain there would be notices stating that it was compulsory to be in possession of a valid ticket/Oyster card before boarding a train there. Certainly that is my experience of using similar stations.

Therefore, whatever the rights and wrongs, and whatever you did or didn't believe at the time, it may be difficult for the ticket inspector to reasonably believe that it was a "mistake" to board at that station without having purchased a ticket or validated Oyster card.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is there any way an out of court settlement can be done between me and FGW.

That is possible, and would be a matter entirely between FGW and yourselves.

You could address your letter to Mike Keeber, Economic Crime, Fraud & Legal Assurance Manager.

We cannot tell you what to write, nor can we possibly estimate the possibility of successfully reaching a settlement.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So how can the OP say he had to get back to his pregnant wife and couldn't afford to miss the train - then say in a later post that he travelled by mistake

This doesn't make sense...

 

[455driver]

After having an off thread chat with rm 81 I would like to withdraw my accusations in my post made at 1753 and publicly apologise to him!

Dont panic folks I havent gone soft!

 

[yorkie]

Is there any way an out of court settlement can be done between me and FGW. Can you please advice me what to write to them. Also is it possible for me to go in person to their prosecution office with my plea.

That is certainly a possibility, but is entirely a matter between yourself and FGW.

We can't advise on what to write. I am not sure they would be interested in meeting you in person; such correspondence is usually required in writing. I have heard of people reaching settlements by telephone, but that's been the exception rather than the norm.

It's in the interests of both parties to reach a settlement in a case such as this, to avoid legal fees (on both sides!) and also any amount would go entirely to FGW. In contrast, a fine imposed by a Court would not go to FGW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So how can the OP say he had to get back to his pregnant wife and couldn't afford to miss the train - then say in a later post that he travelled by mistake

This doesn't make sense...

I'm guessing he means that the mistake was in not realising how important it was to be in possession of a valid ticket before boarding the train.

To be honest, if someone is from London it's hard to believe that, but if someone is from up North, where fares are routinely sold on board (and the worst that will happen is that you'll be denied a Railcard or Off Peak discount), then it could be believable.

But that's for FGW and, potentially if it goes that far, the Courts to decide.

 

[rm_81]

No, the OP asked if it was possible to pay a "fine" (for clarity, he means a Penalty Fare) but the inspector had reason to believe that this was not a mistake for which a Penalty Fare would be appropriate, but instead the matter is of potential fare evasion, and therefore should be dealt with by the Prosecutions department.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although I am familiar with Canning Town for interchange purposes, I have not entered this station, however I am reasonably certain there would be notices stating that it was compulsory to be in possession of a valid ticket/Oyster card before boarding a train there. Certainly that is my experience of using similar stations.

Therefore, whatever the rights and wrongs, and whatever you did or didn't believe at the time, difficult for the ticket inspector to reasonably believe that it was a "mistake" to board at that station without having purchased a ticket or validated Oyster card.

Hi Yorkie
Thanks for your reply.
Please help. Should I reply back to the prosecution department apologizing for my mistake and telling them that this only happened because of I was running late as my wife who was not well that day was waiting for me at station. Also this is my first offense and I request them for Out of Court Settlement.
Is there anything else I can write to them. Also does it helps if I call and speak with someone there.

 

[cuccir]

You can call or write. Writing is often the best option, but people have reported having the matter closed after making phone calls.

If you write, apologize and state clearly that you intended to purchase a ticket and are now aware that you must always purchase before boarding. Offer to pay the fare owed, and administrative costs incurred.

I suggest passing the letter to someone you trust who is a native English speaker in order to proofread the letter. The more literate and educated they are the better. Your English is very good, but it misses out on certain subtleties in meaning that native English speakers ought to detect.

FGW may not offer an out of court settlement. If they do not, it might at that stage be appropriate to contact them via phone, and to speak to a solicitor or the Citizens Advice Bereau. At that stage, people on this forum can also advise the implications of any possible prosecution.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm guessing he means that the mistake was in not realising how important it was to be in possession of a valid ticket before boarding the train.

Fair enough and we are all human. We can all get brain fog at times particularly when in panic mode...

 

[47421]

Did you tap in at Canning Town? It may help (a bit) if you can send in a printout of your oyster usage which shows you knew you did need to tap in. I say it may help a bit only, because clearly the fact you knew you did not have enough credit and did not top up anywhere along the way does suggest you did not make any real effort to make sure you had a valid ticket/enough oyster credit.

If you write in explaining what happened along the lines of what you wrote above, acknowledge that you should have had a valid ticket and apologise for not getting a ticket before travelling, and then say you would like if possible to resolve the matter without going to court, then you can be reasonably optimistic that they will be willing to settle out of court for a payment. But there is no certainty about that - just up to FGW when they review your file after they get your response.

You could consider hiring a solicitor, there are firms and individual solicitors who specialise in ticket irregularity cases and have lots of experience of negotiating with train cos, send me a message if you want some names. But in a simple case like this probably not worth it, for now anyway, as will cost hundreds of pounds in legal fees.

 

[LateThanNever]

After having an off thread chat with rm 81 I would like to withdraw my accusations in my post made at 1753 and publicly apologise to him!

Dont panic folks I havent gone soft!

Hurray! I hope you still wear the funny wig when driving...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . Should I reply back to the prosecution department apologizing for my mistake and telling them that this only happened because of I was running late as my wife who was not well that day was waiting for me at station. . . .

If it is the truth, then there is no harm in mentionning it. But I must say that there are hundreds of people intercepted on the rail network every day who cannot produce a valid ticket when required to do so. Nearly all of them claim to be 'running late' for some personal reason or other. A very great number of people recall something to do with poor health.
Those 'excuses' are of no consequence in considering the offence they committed. There is very rarely any justification for travelling without a valid ticket that follows from 'running late' or 'poor health'.

I leave it for you to consider whether you might benefit in some way from telling the investigating officer that you were 'running late' or that your wife was unwell.

Most investigators are fair people, but they need facts and evidence that are relevant to the matter being investigated. That is what you are being invited to provide.

 

[bb21]

Did you tap in at Canning Town?

I was wondering about that. Canning Town has gatelines iirc so if the OP did not touch in there, then how did he get in?

If he did touch in, then how did he get caught? Where exactly did he get caught at Ealing Broadway? Too many questions unanswered to understand what the hell went on.

 

[MikeWh]

I was wondering about that. Canning Town has gatelines iirc so if the OP did not touch in there, then how did he get in?

Wild guess - he started on a DLR train and changed to the Underground at Canning Town.

 

[Clip]

Wild guess - he started on a DLR train and changed to the Underground at Canning Town.

Very possibly Royal Victoria - seems a notoriuos starting point for those around Canning Town to get on the network and first thing I thought of as Canning Town is barriered from open till close.

 

[rm_81]

Guys
There is confusion here. Although I was stopped and question at Ealing Broadway station. The letter also mentions the same station name. This station is operated by FGW.
However the Notice of Intension to Prosecute has First Capital Connect Logo and Address.

If it should be FGW then I have been given notice using wrong company. This will not help my case.

This is adding misery to my already disturbed life... Please help and advice....

 

[MyFriendMary]

Was the RPI First Capital Connect?

Also, I'm not sure about this and someone part of FGW's East block might know, but they may share facilities with FCC. Makes sense to save on costs

 

[rm_81]

Was the RPI First Capital Connect?

Also, I'm not sure about this and someone part of FGW's East block might know, but they may share facilities with FCC. Makes sense to save on costs

Hello
I am not sure if the RPI was from FCC.

Also one more thing. Does anyone has number for FCC prosecution department. The number they have provided goes to voice in 4 rings. I am trying to call them and see if I can get this settled over the phone.

 

[47421]

I think the FGW revenue protection team are on 0118 957 9332, you may want to give them a call to see if they can shed any light. They might at least have a better number for the FCC team (sorry I dont have that).

But you cannot be criticised if you respond to the people that wrote to you, and would make sense to reply by recorded delivery letter, including your email address and mobile number so is easy as possible for them to get back to you if there has been any administrative mix up

 

[rm_81]

I think the FGW revenue protection team are on 0118 957 9332, you may want to give them a call to see if they can shed any light. They might at least have a better number for the FCC team (sorry I dont have that).

But you cannot be criticised if you respond to the people that wrote to you, and would make sense to reply by recorded delivery letter, including your email address and mobile number so is easy as possible for them to get back to you if there has been any administrative mix up

I have spoken with FCC prosecution dept over phone. The person over the phone asked me to write to him/her that I wanted to settle this with them without going to court and mention my phone number on the letter. I was told that they will update my file with statement that I want to do OOC settlement with them .Once they have received my written letter they will check notes from RPI and get back to me.

And sometimes FCC works together with FGW so the RPI must be from FCC

 

[island]

What company's services had you just used when you arrived at Ealing Broadway?

 

[bb21]

I have spoken with FCC prosecution dept over phone. The person over the phone asked me to write to him/her that I wanted to settle this with them without going to court and mention my phone number on the letter. I was told that they will update my file with statement that I want to do OOC settlement with them .Once they have received my written letter they will check notes from RPI and get back to me.

And sometimes FCC works together with FGW so the RPI must be from FCC

Yes, I think FCC and FGW share some admin functions between them.

You really need to explain exactly what you did that day in terms of where you travelled to/from, where you touched in/out, etc, in order for anyone to be able to figure out what you actually did wrong and advise accordingly.

Without that information it is all a bit of a guess game. Did you see the questions asked by 47421 in Post 16 and those I asked in Post 19?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Thank you for your PM rm_81.
I prefer to offer assistance publically, so that others might benefit, though I do appreciate that there can be more sensitive cases which deserve private discussion.

But I don't feel able to give you any assistance at present, whether privately or publically, with such lack of clarity over the circumstances.

Without that information it is all a bit of a guess game.

With the lack of clarity here, I regret that I am unable to comment.