FGW Franchise

[Parallel]

The entire GW 143 and 153 fleets are being released in 2017 and they are being offered around now. All but 2 of the 150/1 fleet is also up for use elsewhere in 2017, the remaining 2 being available at the end of 2018. Bidders for the Northern franchise are rumoured to be interested in the 150 units.

That ties in with what is becoming known of the 150 and 158 deployment on GW. It appears that all the 150/0, 150/2 and 158 fleet is being kept.

Hmm, interesting. I do hope the 158s end up being retained on the busy Cardiff - Pompeys, due to the suitable lay out and seating arrangement for longer distance traffic etc. They do need a lot of work though - It wouldn't surprise me if they were sent down to work on Cornish mainline services however.

I do hope someone takes on the FGW 143s in the short term, they are (in my opinion), the best pacers around.

What are remaining 150s (and 143s if they are kept) going to work? The Devon metro and the Cornish branches possibly? Will there be enough 165s and 166s to cover all other services in the west, as well as the few diesel lines that will be left in the Thames Valley? I wonder what will happen to the 180s...

 

[IanXC]

Its been First's bidding plan to not put is name on trains. Both TSGN & WCML bids wouldn't have seen trains branded First at all.

[Offtopic]I wonder what that says about the future branding of Hull Trains...[/off topic]

I wonder what will happen to the 180s...

FGWs 180s are confirmed as going to Grand Central.

 

[Class 170101]

But the usual DfT rules will apply - if you propose something that somebody else uses, you have to show what will replace it on the donor TOC.

Do they?

How did Chiltern get away with that regarding the 170s from TPE? I don't recall the solution proposed being a Chiltern one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do they?

How did Chiltern get away with that regarding the 170s from TPE? I don't recall the solution proposed being a Chiltern one.

I do wonder if that stipulation came about as a result of that Class 170 debacle.

 

[Rich McLean]

Hmm, interesting. I do hope the 158s end up being retained on the busy Cardiff - Pompeys, due to the suitable lay out and seating arrangement for longer distance traffic etc. They do need a lot of work though - It wouldn't surprise me if they were sent down to work on Cornish mainline services however.

I do hope someone takes on the FGW 143s in the short term, they are (in my opinion), the best pacers around.

What are remaining 150s (and 143s if they are kept) going to work? The Devon metro and the Cornish branches possibly? Will there be enough 165s and 166s to cover all other services in the west, as well as the few diesel lines that will be left in the Thames Valley? I wonder what will happen to the 180s...

You will be dissapointed by the 158s

5 car 165/166s will be running between Cardiff - Portsmouth. 165s will be 3+2, while 166's converted to 2+2 seating. All will be Chilternised with new Air Con.

12 x 2 car 158 units will be moving to Plymouth to operate 2tph Plymouth to Penzance, with some extensions to/from Exeter St Davids
3 x 3 car 158s for Taunton - Cardiff (1 x 3 Car unit, 2 x 3 car units formed from 3 x 2 car units)

The remaining 158s on St James Park - Barnstable circuits with the two 150/0s

150/2's operating as 4 car units on the 2tph Exmouth - Paignton's
Remaining 150/2s operating the Cornish Branches.

153's and 150/1s to go back out on lease.
Remaining 165 units to be in use on Bristol Local services.

 

[Hartington]

What about the sleeper? It seems to have become a bit unreliable in recent months (it failed Sunday night, was replaced by an HST and ran by day as ECS today).

 

[Rich McLean]

What about the sleeper? It seems to have become a bit unreliable in recent months (it failed Sunday night, was replaced by an HST and ran by day as ECS today).

As of now, but with a full refurbishment.

 

[jimm]

Thames valley are going to really love getting carriages that are basically identical to the 165/6s other than lack of diesel engines.

Probably, but they might be very interested in the Mk 3 coaches within them so that all the fast Birmingham services can become Silver trains.

Well 2+2 seats and no noisy engine and transmission under the floor represent a clear improvement on the Turbos - and not sure the interiors of the refreshed 365 sets look all that different from a 387 anyway.

DB/Arriva have no need for HST cast-offs - they already own outright a number of Mk3s that can be overhauled should Chiltern want more.

Edit:

A series of locally-tailored press releases about the agreement have been posted at the FGW media page with some local details included.

https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Media-Centre

 

[Temple Meads]

With regards to the bi-mode sets, will they need to make an 'operational-stop' at Newbury even on fast services to switch to the diesel engine, or will the power change be possible on the move?

 

[jimm]

With regards to the bi-mode sets, will they need to make an 'operational-stop' at Newbury even on fast services to switch to the diesel engine, or will the power change be possible on the move?

The trains are designed to change power mode while on the move, though in the case of most other GW services changeovers will be done in stations at the likes of Oxford, Swindon, Bristol Temple Meads and Swansea.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

A series of locally-tailored press releases about the agreement have been posted at the FGW media page with some local details included.

There's no particular explanation as to why Maidenhead - Marlow isn't going to be electrified. There's an apparent willingness to reconfigure Bourne End to allow a half hourly service without changing trains, but the need to extend platforms or set up two car or three car electrics seems to rule out the wires.

 

[Temple Meads]

The trains are designed to change power mode while on the move, though in the case of most other GW services changeovers will be done in stations at the likes of Oxford, Swindon, Bristol Temple Meads and Swansea.

Great, thanks

 

[jopsuk]

FGWs 180s are confirmed as going to Grand Central.

Indeed- the contract for that (in 2017) was announced in October last year

 

[21C101]

There's no particular explanation as to why Maidenhead - Marlow isn't going to be electrified. There's an apparent willingness to reconfigure Bourne End to allow a half hourly service without changing trains, but the need to extend platforms or set up two car or three car electrics seems to rule out the wires.

In the longer term I could see that line ending up with Chiltern and having Padd Heathrow Slough High Wycombe Aylesbury Milton Keynes services on it.

 

[DarloRich]

I see that First Group has been awarded a four year extension the franchise. As part of it 58 - 4 car electric units will be introduced on the Thames Valley route - anyone know where they are being transfered from?
https://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk...stern-fleet-upgrade-improves-train-facilities

A cynical person may say that it is odd that the government had to rush through a privatisation of East Coast while being seemingly happy to extend the franchise term of almost every other private operator.............

 

[D365]

A cynical person may say that it is odd that the government had to rush through a privatisation of East Coast while being seemingly happy to extend the franchise term of almost every other private operator.............

You don't need to be a cynic to see it :roll:

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A cynical person may say that it is odd that the government had to rush through a privatisation of East Coast while being seemingly happy to extend the franchise term of almost every other private operator.............

I don't doubt politics played its part, but I suspect DfT needed the higher premiums from VTEC to help pay for the largesse being doled out for the new services on FGW (and soon Northern/TPE) in the new franchises.
The government "budget cuts" are so far notable by their absence on the railway.

 

[387star]

In the proposal list in the consultation document where it lists replacement avantix and the like is all that going ahead or just a proposal??

Ie

The Proposal in Summary:
 Today’s timetable (SLC1) maintained and improved, with major step changes following suburban electrification in May 2017 (SLC2) and full electrification and new Intercity Express Programme trains in December 2018 – subject to delivery by Network Rail of the new signalling and Overhead Line Electric infrastructure.
 Significantly more capacity, improved service frequency and journey time savings across the franchise map.
 This is delivered by new IEP trains and a fleet of cascaded Class 387 and 365 EMU trains for the Thames Valley, allowing DMU units to cascade further south and west. This represents an increase in capacity of circa 25% across the franchise map.
 Better frequency to the West of England from December 2018 with 2 tph, 1 fast and 1 semi fast, running as far as Exeter.
 Increase to 2 tph on the Cornish mainline from December 2018, with more regular clock face connections to the branch lines.
 Investment of £30m to create at least 2,100 more car park spaces and a range of station improvements.
 Challenging targets to maintain and improve the level of delays and cancellations and NRPS scores.
 On train free Wi-Fi introduced across the GW fleet.
 Investment of at least £3.6m in replacements for ‘Avantix’ mobile ticket retailing.
 Investment of at least £2m in new ticket gatelines which have been demonstrated to protect revenue and increase security for passengers on the railway.
 Lengthening of most Cardiff to Portsmouth trains from three cars to five cars by May 2017 to relieve the crowding on this route.
 More car parking spaces, including at the following locations:

A new at least 650 space car park facility at St. Erth.
 Investment in new interactive screens and information boards.
 At least £2.3m investment in improved CCTV at stations and a further investment in CIS, roving microphones and gateline PCs.
 At least 56 “customer ambassadors” at stations.
 A fund of £2.45m for station access improvements, above and beyond Access for All
main schemes and small schemes investment.
 Station Travel Plans at a further 20 major interchange stations.
 A £3.5m station development match fund, including £800 000 for St. Erth.
 Intention for 700 additional cycle parking spaces to be provided under the CCIF fund.
 Targeted improvements to National Rail Passenger Survey (NRPS) scores supported by up to £1m annual improvement spend.
 Ongoing reduction to incidents of Cancellation and Significant Lateness (CASL).
 Commitment to cooperate to revise the Passenger’s Charter to include “delay repay”
or another improved passenger compensation scheme during the franchise term.
 In times of disruption, a 24-hour social media information service providing travel information and information on the disruption, with information made available through social media (including Twitter and the Franchisee's website).

 

[Captain Chaos]

The Avantix is definitely being replaced. With what, I don't know. I believe a tablet/phablet system is being preferred with wireless printer capabilities. A rumoured online connection to enable acceptance of all cards is rumoured too. Not sure of SMART capabilities. It will be able to read them at least. This is all on the grapevine though...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I notice Gatelines mentioned there too. any ideas where else could likely be gated? I know Marlow and Cookham (no Furze Platt, I wonder why!) is getting TVM's. Commission for us is going to take a nosedive there. Long overdue though tbh.

 

[Haydn1971]

May have been answered elsewhere, but could the potential extra Hitachi units cover the proposed break up of the London Midland Franchise ? Running the semi-fasts as 80x's ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

May have been answered elsewhere, but could the potential extra Hitachi units cover the proposed break up of the London Midland Franchise ? Running the semi-fasts as 80x's ?

There is no proposal I'm aware of to break up the WCML bit of LM.

 

[D365]

May have been answered elsewhere, but could the potential extra Hitachi units cover the proposed break up of the London Midland Franchise ? Running the semi-fasts as 80x's ?

Posting in this thread about the First Group-Hitachi contract option will be more relevant to your query, rather than the FGW franchise specifically.

 

[RPI]

One station that will be gated is Newton Abbot but i believe that was funded during the current franchise term, work set to start this month

 

[WatcherZero]

I don't doubt politics played its part, but I suspect DfT needed the higher premiums from VTEC to help pay for the largesse being doled out for the new services on FGW (and soon Northern/TPE) in the new franchises.
The government "budget cuts" are so far notable by their absence on the railway.

They are there, down by a third, theyve just not been immediately apparent as the government has mainly been implementing them through reductions in revenue support when franchises are renewed/direct awarded and a reduction in the amount of investment the new franchises are able to make in stations and other improvements down to quite paltry sums, and a greater proportion for revenue protection improvements. For example one way you can see the reduction is through Pte rail grants, the money the dft passes through them to pay for subsidised services. In 2011/12 the Tfgm rail grant was £97m, this year it is £49m.

 

[iantherev]

One station that will be gated is Newton Abbot but i believe that was funded during the current franchise term, work set to start this month

That will no doubt make a difference to fare evasion - at the moment it just seems to be an open invitation, although on train checking seems to have been stepped up recently, judging by my experience. (not in fare evasion, I hasten to add)

 

[northwichcat]

There is no proposal I'm aware of to break up the WCML bit of LM.

There is a proposal under consideration for effectively what's class 350 services to be put in to a separate franchise from the other LM services. Doesn't mean it'll happen though - it was proposed TPE would be split up with routes going to Northern, East Midlands, West Coast plus East Coast or Cross Country.

 

[Haydn1971]

Could potentially get more 350's onto TPE though... I'm not allowed that familiar with LM, what stopping patterns do their 350's use ?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

In the longer term I could see that line ending up with Chiltern and having Padd Heathrow Slough High Wycombe Aylesbury Milton Keynes services on it.

You would have to reinstate the closed Bourne End to High Wycombe route, part of which has been built over.

 

[swt_passenger]

There is no proposal I'm aware of to break up the WCML bit of LM.

We (that is you and I) were discussing it in November here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108968

but it's off topic for this thread really.

 

[northwichcat]

Could potentially get more 350's onto TPE though... I'm not allowed that familiar with LM, what stopping patterns do their 350's use ?

Generally LM services operated by 350s get overtaken by faster Virgin services. The exception is Liverpool to Birmingham, where LM provide the only direct service between the two cities.