FGW First class service

[SephenWorceste]

> If the staff have to then collect and wash all the cups as well it would require either more staff

True. With fares in first class two to three times the price of standard you would think they could afford it.

The paper cups are branded first class. That somehow makes them even less appropriate.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[TEW]

But it's been pointed out elsewhere that FGW do generally have cheaper First Class fares than Virgin, who offer more for free. At the end of the day I don't really see using a paper cup as that big of an issue.

 

[ainsworth74]

If the staff have to then collect and wash all the cups as well it would require either more staff, or less time serving refreshments.

Then do it like EC where washing is handled by Rail Gourmet, all the staff on the train do is collect the cups shortly before the end of the journey. I agree it's a small issue in the scheme of things, I just think it would give a better impression

 

[TEW]

That's still going to cost more money though, and would people really be prepared for an increase in FC ticket prices to cover the costs of providing proper cups.

 

[Techniquest]

What's wrong with the cups they current provide? Unless they're failing to properly contain your coffee (or tea, should you prefer that stuff), then why fix something that ain't broke?

 

[455driver]

But it's been pointed out elsewhere that FGW do generally have cheaper First Class fares than Virgin, who offer more for free.

Nothing is "free", if you dont have to pay for it then it has been included in the ticket price.

FGW offer cheaper fares and you pay for what food you want.
or
Virgin are more expensive but give you some free food if you want it.

Personally I would rather pay for what I want rather than be charged for it if I have it or not.

 

[Martin222002]

FGW do deliver the First Class service with less staff than other TOCs though. The trolley service can be delivered by just one or two staff, and using paper cups makes it easier. If the staff have to then collect and wash all the cups as well it would require either more staff, or less time serving refreshments.

EMT seem to be able to wash all their glasses and mugs used in first class and serve passengers without having to have an army of staff.

 

[Essexman]

I'm not bothered about free drinks and food.
I use first class to be sure of a decent seat in a quieter environment - and on FGW when there's a travelling chef to be able to buy a good cooked meal served at seat on a plate with knife and fork.

 

[jimm]

For food I would go for Virgin over First Great Western. My choice is Worcester to Paddington with FGW or Birmingham to Euston with Virgin.

FGW travelling chef is great but it is only two trains a day for me. You pay for it on top of a ticket price of about £150 return. Your tea comes in a paper cup. If you are unlucky they substitute a two car Turbo with no catering and no working toilet.

Virgin deliver a cooked meal on a decent proportion of services. It is complementary and an Advance return is usually under a £100. Proper crockery for your tea. The Pendelinos are not bad in first.

If I could guarantee it would run as advertised then my absolute favourite train would be the 6.19 from Worcester to Paddington. Until Oxford you can almost have your own HST carriage. Travelling chef breakfast, a steward to bring tea every ten minutes and the sun rising as the Cotswolds slide by.

Best wishes, Stephen.

And in the real world, not everyone is able to shell out three-figure sums to travel first class - I can't, so either use it at weekends, or employers pay - so the ability to get a decent hot breakfast in standard on FGW, whatever day of the week it is, is much appreciated - and when it comes to a cup, if they don't leak, that'll do me. You make it sound as though the 05.28 from Hereford is constantly being replaced by a Turbo, which isn't the case.

FGW don't offer first or standard advances on the Cotswold Line because they can fill the trains without them much of the day, as they don't have a train every 20 minutes with 500 seats to fill, which Virgin do to and from Birmingham.

However, one thing I would love to see is some Travelling Chef services in the evening around tea time. Would save having to rely on Burger King and the like for a filling meal, indeed it would save me having to allocate extra time to fester at the station or in the relevant town/city centre to get food before my train home, therefore allowing me more time to do whatever I need to do.

Wouldn't have to be on a lot of services, but I doubt I'm the only one who would find it useful.

But the pattern of services didn't come about by accident. it was on the back of long-term trends, which led to the loss of South Wales restaurant cars, for example, with sales of hot food heavily skewed towards breakfast. The bulk of journeys home in FGW-land are completed inside about two hours from Paddington, so people are back in time to eat at home if they're leaving London in the late afternoon and early evening and clearly prefer to do that. The mid-morning and lunch services from Paddington are provided by chefs working home after breakfast services but I'd be surprised if they're half as busy on the run home.

I'd agree a South Wales Travelling Chef or two from Paddington in the afternoon peak might make sense - it's a long trip to Swansea, but just wouldn't be worth it elsewhere. And don't forget shorter runs on Virgin and EC often seem to qualify you for little more than sandwiches and drinks - indeed EC's website doesn't even guarantee you anything - the website says "On shorter journeys (of 70 minutes or less) we will endeavour to provide complimentary drinks and snacks".

 

[Be3G]

There are a few Travelling Chef services that cover some of the evening period – e.g. 2015 Paddington to Swansea, 1600 Penzance to Paddington.

 

[SephenWorceste]

> And in the real world, not everyone is able to shell out three-figure sums to travel first class - I can't, so either use it at weekends, or employers pay - so the ability to get a decent hot breakfast in standard on FGW, whatever day of the week it is, is much appreciated - and when it comes to a cup, if they don't leak, that'll do me. You make it sound as though the 05.28 from Hereford is constantly being replaced by a Turbo, which isn't the case.

True. For me first class is a very occasional treat. I usually do standard on the way back to Worcester. The late evening trains are empty, quiet and there is no real first class service. I hope that works out cheaper than a first return.

The 5.28 from Hereford is one of the more reliable service. The Adalentes seem to be the problem at the moment. Replaced by short Turbos. These train just do not work for me for more an hour. I could happily spend all day on a HST.

I know the Cotswold Line does not justify a twenty minute service with multiple operators. The problem for me is that a single cancelled train will then mean I am very late in London.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[Goatboy]

FGW don't offer first or standard advances on the Cotswold Line because they can fill the trains without them much of the day, as they don't have a train every 20 minutes with 500 seats to fill, which Virgin do to and from Birmingham.

This isn't the reason why FGW don't offer Advance fares on this route - you've clearly never been on a Cotswold Line service West of Oxford if you think they are all suitably packed that there is no need for Advances!

 

[Techniquest]

Indeed,having Advance fares for that route would bring in many more passengers.West of Oxford it gets quieter,yes,west of Worcester much more so and by Hereford there's truckloads of room.It's just the Paddington to Oxford lot that take up the room for us long distance travellers!

 

[jimm]

This isn't the reason why FGW don't offer Advance fares on this route - you've clearly never been on a Cotswold Line service West of Oxford if you think they are all suitably packed that there is no need for Advances!

Sorry for not being quite as specific as your standards clearly demand. I live on the route and know all about the situation thanks.

There is no point selling advances as trains are busy all day between London and Oxford (and west of Oxford in the peaks as well), so why flog cheap tickets from further west? From Hereford there are plenty offered via Newport anyway and it's quicker that route than via Oxford. From Worcester eastwards off-peak you can use Network Railcards - and the Cotswold Railcard for local journeys - and the fares generally are a hell of a lot cheaper to begin with than covering similar distances on other FGW services.

Also, you can't use an off-peak return to London on a train leaving Swindon at 7.30am, which you can from Worcester, nor come back from Paddington using an off-peak ticket (but not off-peak day tickets) between 5pm and 7pm, which is allowed if travelling to any Cotswold Line station west of Oxford. There's also an easement for Network Cards, allowing their use on the 08.26 from Worcester Foregate Street to London.

In short, the Cotswold Line gets special treatment other routes would dearly love to have. In that context, the lack of advances is neither here nor there. Hope that's thorough enough for you.

The Adalentes seem to be the problem at the moment.

Hardly - the 180s are currently covering about 90 per cent of their booked diagrams, despite just four of the five sets being available for traffic for five or six weeks now - 180106 is not well. One particular problem covering for a broken 180 is the stop at Shipton on the 17.28 from Worcester. The up platform at Shipton is only two coaches long, so a three-car Turbo, without selective doors, can't work that train. I haven't been on a substitute turbo since January, whereas it was happening all the time in late November and December.

 

[Goatboy]

There is no point selling advances as trains are busy all day between London and Oxford (and west of Oxford in the peaks as well), so why flog cheap tickets from further west?

The Penzance and Bristol services are also busy from places like Reading and Swindon to London - yet Advance fares are offered.

 

[TEW]

One particular problem covering for a broken 180 is the stop at Shipton on the 17.28 from Worcester. The up platform at Shipton is only two coaches long, so a three-car Turbo, without selective doors, can't work that train. I haven't been on a substitute turbo since January, whereas it was happening all the time in late November and December.

It did seem a little strange taking the Shipton stop out of the 15:11 from Hereford and putting it in the 17:28 from Worcester. It has meant that the 17:28 from Worcester has been a 2-car 165 several times and also the Shipton stop has been removed a couple of times because it's been a 3 car turbo.

 

[HowardGWR]

Sorry for not being quite as specific as your standards clearly demand. I live on the route and know all about the situation thanks.

There is no point selling advances as trains are busy all day between London and Oxford (and west of Oxford in the peaks as well), so why flog cheap tickets from further west? From Hereford there are plenty offered via Newport anyway and it's quicker that route than via Oxford. From Worcester eastwards off-peak you can use Network Railcards - and the Cotswold Railcard for local journeys - and the fares generally are a hell of a lot cheaper to begin with than covering similar distances on other FGW services.

Also, you can't use an off-peak return to London on a train leaving Swindon at 7.30am, which you can from Worcester, nor come back from Paddington using an off-peak ticket (but not off-peak day tickets) between 5pm and 7pm, which is allowed if travelling to any Cotswold Line station west of Oxford. There's also an easement for Network Cards, allowing their use on the 08.26 from Worcester Foregate Street to London.

In short, the Cotswold Line gets special treatment other routes would dearly love to have. In that context, the lack of advances is neither here nor there. Hope that's thorough enough for you.



Hardly - the 180s are currently covering about 90 per cent of their booked diagrams, despite just four of the five sets being available for traffic for five or six weeks now - 180106 is not well. One particular problem covering for a broken 180 is the stop at Shipton on the 17.28 from Worcester. The up platform at Shipton is only two coaches long, so a three-car Turbo, without selective doors, can't work that train. I haven't been on a substitute turbo since January, whereas it was happening all the time in late November and December.

I found this reply particularly insensitive to the environmental (and business) case for ensuring a less empty train west of Oxford. If Oxford pax cram a train from and to Worcester, surely the answer is to put on more trains or longer ones from Oxford? A fares structure to ensure that outcome would surely be helpful.

 

[Techniquest]

From Hereford there are plenty offered via Newport anyway and it's quicker that route than via Oxford.

Perhaps, although often when I'm looking for Advances via Newport the difference is usually tiny compared to a walk up return that way,or my plans can accommodate going via the Cotswolds both ways so a ticket that way is better.

Besides, if an Advance was offered for, say, £18 via Oxford or £22 via Newport, I'd wager an awful lot of people would go for the £18 fare.

 

[jimm]

The Penzance and Bristol services are also busy from places like Reading and Swindon to London - yet Advance fares are offered.

Advance fares are offered where there is surplus capacity - so of course you can get an advance from Reading at certain times with thousands of seats running up and down each hour - and while on the face of it there is surplus capacity on Cotswold Line trains west of Oxford at certain times, the reality is those seats are not surplus between Oxford and London - a route where FGW is competing with two express coach operators - and where if people found no seats available on the trains, that would mean instant lost custom for FGW.

Why should there be advances west of Oxford when there are all those discounted fare options I mentioned available to passengers on the route, that are not available from Swindon etc? Please try to explain that.

Off-peak day return fares using a Cotswold Railcard usually work out cheaper from West Oxfordshire stations than competing buses and are cheaper than the fuel for a car doing the comparable road journey. What more do you want?

It did seem a little strange taking the Shipton stop out of the 15:11 from Hereford and putting it in the 17:28 from Worcester. It has meant that the 17:28 from Worcester has been a 2-car 165 several times and also the Shipton stop has been removed a couple of times because it's been a 3 car turbo.

Nothing strange about it. The call was fairly long-established (well-timed for an evening out in Oxford) but got switched to the earlier train when FGW put a three-car Turbo on the service in 2009 or thereabouts after taking 180s and then HSTs (with SDO) off the 17.xx from Worcester.

I found this reply particularly insensitive to the environmental (and business) case for ensuring a less empty train west of Oxford. If Oxford pax cram a train from and to Worcester, surely the answer is to put on more trains or longer ones from Oxford? A fares structure to ensure that outcome would surely be helpful.

Insensitive? Oh please - see what I say about the Cotswold Railcard above in terms of the environment. Several peak Cotswold HSTs arrive at and leave Oxford in both directions full - and have done for years. Off-peak you are never ever, whatever you do with ticketing, going to fill 500 or 580-seat HSTs west of Oxford. That's why 280-seat 180s and 250-seat 166s are the preferred options off-peak. Cotswold Line trains have been an integral part of the half-hourly Oxford-London fast timetable since December 2006 - and formed a big chunk of the timetable before that, so the yield management strategy is built around that.

If you know where FGW can find some extra trains to accommodate all these extra passengers who will apparently turn up just because there are advance fares, despite being able to buy all manner of cheap tickets (not available to those living west of Didcot) under the existing fares structure for years anyway, I'm sure FGW would be delighted to hear from you. Anyone else know of any spare 125mph diesel rolling stock out there?

 

[Goatboy]

Advance fares are offered where there is surplus capacity

Advance fares are available on almost every single train between Paddington and the Westcountry. Even those which leave Paddington in the evening peak loaded to standing room only with people for Reading and stations to Swindon/Newbury.

Just checked and even the 17:03 from Paddington on a Friday has Advance availability. I wouldn't be suprised if thats one of FGW's most busy trains!

Why should there be advances west of Oxford when there are all those discounted fare options I mentioned available to passengers on the route, that are not available from Swindon etc? Please try to explain that.

Why don't you explain to me why you think the world ends at Worcester? A network card, for example, is not valid from Great Malvern.

 

[jimm]

Advance fares are available on almost every single train between Paddington and the Westcountry. Even those which leave Paddington in the evening peak loaded to standing room only with people for Reading and stations to Swindon/Newbury.

Just checked and even the 17:03 from Paddington on a Friday has Advance availability. I wouldn't be suprised if thats one of FGW's most busy trains!



Why don't you explain to me why you think the world ends at Worcester? A network card, for example, is not valid from Great Malvern.

RE West Country services - two words, yield management. Sting all your passengers for an anytime fare and there would be some very empty trains west of Reading. And buying an advance doesn't suit everyone anyway, given the link to a specific train.

The world may not end at Worcester, but I've already mentioned Hereford advances via Newport and because of the - I'll say it again just so you're clear - generally lower fares on the Cotswold Line for a comparable distance elsewhere in FGW-land, fares from Malvern are also lower than for a comparable distance elsewhere, plus anyone with any sense living west of Worcester travelling off-peak gets a Network Card and buys a separate ticket to get into worcester. Regular passengers know all about this and the casual passenger still benefits from the generally lower fares on the Cotswold Line for a comparable distance elsewhere in FGW-land.

You still haven't explained why you think there should be advances when there are all these Cotswold Line discounts on top of generally lower fares but nothing comparable available from Swindon, etc, etc.

 

[bnm]

Attached photo is one reason why Advances should perhaps be considered.

1st Class section of a Class 180 leaving Oxford. The 1426 from Great Malvern, 5th September 2012. Standard Class was also sparsely loaded. My trip in the down direction earlier in the day from Paddington (the 1022, a HST) was also sparsely loaded. I sat alone in Coach F for most of the journey. And yes, on that service also, there was room to swing a tiger in every Standard Class coach.

 

[Goatboy]

Exactly my experience on every single train I've used on that route. Masses of capacity. I've lost count of the number of times I've had an entire HST coach to myself. Far more sparsly loaded than the Westcountry services on which there are numerous advance fares.

 

[jimm]

Exactly my experience on every single train I've used on that route. Masses of capacity. I've lost count of the number of times I've had an entire HST coach to myself. Far more sparsly loaded than the Westcountry services on which there are numerous advance fares.

Every single train? What times are you travelling at? If you mean off-peak HSTs to Hereford, such as the 10.22, those are operated by HSTs on the grounds that it is cruel to passengers to put them on a 166 for all that time - except on a Sunday. There aren't enough 180s to cover those runs and all the Worcester/Malvern jobs, so HSTs it is.

You still haven't explained why you think advances are needed in the face of fares that are already lower than elsewhere, with all the other ways to reduce them further, easements, etc, etc.

So there are empty seats - same goes for routes the length and breath of the land off-peak. What about filling them?

Are you suggesting there is some vast well of people out there in lightly-populated rural communities in the Cotswolds or two rather small cities yearning to go to London 24/7 who are being frustrated by cruel FGW, who offer already offer lots of options to save money anyway? Or should they cut their own throats (and ours) and increase the cap-and-collar burden on taxpayers?

 

[bnm]

A rather insular viewpoint. Not everyone using the Cotswold Line is travelling from 'lightly-populated rural communities' or 'those two rather small cities' to London.

Attract some passengers to the line and it's locations with some well advertised Advance fares. Not just ones to/from London, but also FGW+Connections from further afield. Same at the other end. Ones to/from and via Reading and Oxford as well.

The walk-up fares on the Cotswold line may be better value than similar length journeys elsewhere, but if you are travelling to a Cotswold Line destination from somewhere other than an origin that's also on the Cotswold Line, the fare may not be as good value.

Additional passengers. Fill those empty seats. If the over-provision of rolling stock in the Off Peak is necessary because there is no other stock available, then the operator should be doing their very best to fill it.

I get the impression jimm that you rather like your empty trains and don't want to see their capacity better utilised.

 

[Goatboy]

You still haven't explained why you think advances are needed in the face of fares that are already lower than elsewhere, with all the other ways to reduce them further, easements, etc, etc.

They are hardly bargainous compared to travel elsewhere in the country. Besides, the cost of walk-on fares is not related to the availability of advance fares. A walkon ticket from Penzance to Exeter is not expensive, cheaper than the apparent bargains between Cotswold line stations - yet an Advance is available. The Cotswold Line fares are pretty good - but there is no rule that states you need SOR's at £150 to justify Advance fares so I'm not sure what the relevence is.

So there are empty seats - same goes for routes the length and breath of the land off-peak. What about filling them?

Most of these routes have advance fares offered if they are IC style journeys.

Also, calm down - its an internet discussion about trains, it isn't worth getting het up about.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Regarding pricing on the Cotswold Line. A day trip for me in to London on Saturday the 18th of May in Standard (return):

Birmingham departure £12 (London Midland or Chiltern) or £15 (Virgin)
Cheltenham departure £12
Worcester departure £40

Guess which is the Cotswold Line.

Interestingly not all trains from Worcester use the Cotswold Line an odd one goes via Cheltenham. A single to London on Monday morning the 20th of May.

From Worcester via Cheltenham £76
Same train joined at Cheltenham £41

My criteria in ticket types is always the cheapest. I like to plan ahead.

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

[jimm]

Regarding pricing on the Cotswold Line. A day trip for me in to London on Saturday the 18th of May in Standard (return):

Birmingham departure £12 (London Midland or Chiltern) or £15 (Virgin)
Cheltenham departure £12
Worcester departure £40

Guess which is the Cotswold Line.

Interestingly not all trains from Worcester use the Cotswold Line an odd one goes via Cheltenham. A single to London on Monday morning the 20th of May.

From Worcester via Cheltenham £76
Same train joined at Cheltenham £41

My criteria in ticket types is always the cheapest. I like to plan ahead.

Best wishes, Stephen.

And guess what happens to the Cotswold Line train - I take it we're likely talking the 07.10 from Hereford - when it gets to Oxford - that's right, people standing the length of the platform - same as every evening at 17.25 when the oh so very empty 15.14 from Hereford to London gets in.

Do you have a Network Card? If so, that £40 comes down to £26.75 or £29.70 with a Travelcard - but those prices don't suit your purposes quite as well as saying it's £40, do they? And what is it going to cost you to get to Birmingham? I'm assuming you don't own a magic carpet.

Go via Cheltenham by all means but that's rather a large chunk out of the day. Hardly surprising it's cheaper, is it?

If you like to plan ahead and can, good for you. But when I go to London, I often find myself in meetings or at events with uncertain finish times. So do lots of others - advances are no use then.

They are hardly bargainous compared to travel elsewhere in the country. Besides, the cost of walk-on fares is not related to the availability of advance fares. A walkon ticket from Penzance to Exeter is not expensive, cheaper than the apparent bargains between Cotswold line stations - yet an Advance is available. The Cotswold Line fares are pretty good - but there is no rule that states you need SOR's at £150 to justify Advance fares so I'm not sure what the relevence is.



Most of these routes have advance fares offered if they are IC style journeys.

Also, calm down - its an internet discussion about trains, it isn't worth getting het up about.

I'm very calm thanks, just very hacked off that you seem unable to answer basic questions, like what times you travel on all these people-free trains on the Cotswold Line? Or your inability to explain why advances should be offered beyond variations of 'they just should'. And thanks for stating the obvious about how ticketing yield management systems function - it should be equally obvious that the model FGW are using tells them that it would not benefit their coffers by much, if anything, to use advances on the Cotswold Line - if it did, they would.

A rather insular viewpoint. Not everyone using the Cotswold Line is travelling from 'lightly-populated rural communities' or 'those two rather small cities' to London.

Attract some passengers to the line and it's locations with some well advertised Advance fares. Not just ones to/from London, but also FGW+Connections from further afield. Same at the other end. Ones to/from and via Reading and Oxford as well.

The walk-up fares on the Cotswold line may be better value than similar length journeys elsewhere, but if you are travelling to a Cotswold Line destination from somewhere other than an origin that's also on the Cotswold Line, the fare may not be as good value.

Additional passengers. Fill those empty seats. If the over-provision of rolling stock in the Off Peak is necessary because there is no other stock available, then the operator should be doing their very best to fill it.

I get the impression jimm that you rather like your empty trains and don't want to see their capacity better utilised.

Insular? No, just realistic. The overwhelming majority of business is along the axis to and from Oxford, Reading and London and the South-East and the overwhelming majority of the traffic is local people or people from other places on that axis visiting the Cotswolds, Worcestershire and the Marches. Nothing, short of London disappearing under the Thames through climate change, will alter that. Were there a decent direct rail link from the West Midlands, things could be a bit different but the aggro of changing at Worcester, or going down to Oxford and then back up, make rail the poor relation when it comes to reaching the area from points north. Nor is changing at Didcot and again at Oxford a great attraction from points west.

Many fares from further afield are lousy value but that is largely because they are outside FGW's control. Lots of long-distance fares via Oxford are at the mercy of XC - nothing FGW can do about that.

If only the trains were empty at the times of the day I travel. Their capacity is very well utilised thanks - same as it is at other times of the day between Oxford and London - you simply cannot isolate the Cotswold Line from that part of the journey no matter how much you all seem to want to pretend you can.

For local journeys between Worcester and Oxford, off-peak it would be pretty hard to offer prices much below what you get with a Cotswold Railcard. You'll have to ask FGW about their non-existent promotion of it.

Speaking of under-promotion, after 5pm-5.30pm, from Moreton-in-marsh and stations west there's a £3.50 super off-peak return valid all the way to Hereford or Stourbridge, should you so wish (LM are the guilty party when it comes to non-promotion of this one) Or the Oxford Evening Out ranger in the other direction, a princely £3, with a railcard discount taking it down to all of £2, getting you to Didcot, Bicester or Banbury, should you so wish. Who needs advances?

 

[Goatboy]

I'm very calm thanks, just very hacked off that you seem unable to answer basic questions, like what times you travel on all these people-free trains on the Cotswold Line?

Sure - weekends and off-peak times during the week (Note, I'm not suggesting Advance fares should be offered in the peak).

Or your inability to explain why advances should be offered beyond variations of 'they just should'.

I'm not entirely sure why I need a reason beyond 'they just should' but we can extend it to 'Because every single other Intercity line offers them' if you want?

Tell you what - we could extend your logic to the rest of the network? Why not withdraw all Virgin's Advance fares and instead focus on running Pendo's empty to Milton Keynes and then stuffing them to the gunnels with London commuters from there? Because thats essentially what happens on the Cotswold line (if your theory on why Advances are not offered is true, personally I suspect its far more likely to be an oversight than it is to have been a calculated decision).

And thanks for stating the obvious about how ticketing yield management systems function - it should be equally obvious that the model FGW are using tells them that it would not benefit their coffers by much, if anything, to use advances on the Cotswold Line - if it did, they would.

Ah, that old Chestnut. The assumption that every decision a TOC makes is inherently the right decision otherwise they'd not have made it. Nice logical fallacy there. If that was true we'd never see a single error made in any aspect of the industry. Oh if only that were true.

For local journeys between Worcester and Oxford, off-peak it would be pretty hard to offer prices much below what you get with a Cotswold Railcard. You'll have to ask FGW about their non-existent promotion of it.

Speaking of under-promotion, after 5pm-5.30pm, from Moreton-in-marsh and stations west there's a £3.50 super off-peak return valid all the way to Hereford or Stourbridge, should you so wish (LM are the guilty party when it comes to non-promotion of this one) Or the Oxford Evening Out ranger in the other direction, a princely £3, with a railcard discount taking it down to all of £2, getting you to Didcot, Bicester or Banbury, should you so wish. Who needs advances?

Who needs Advances? How about people making long distance journeys on Intercity trains?

Nobody would book an advance fare for a short hop anyway.

 

[Flamingo]

As far as I am aware, (I am open to correction) Advance tickets are not offered on any journey where a Network Southeast card applies.

Now, you could argue that NSE cards should not be valid on trips to Worcester, but that appears to be a historical accident.

I suppose that ATOC could get rid of the NSE cards for journeys past Oxford, and introduce Advance tickets on this line instead...