FGW considers expanding sleeper service

[Aictos]

With regards to the former West Country to Scotland sleepers, does anyone have any timings?

 

[rail-britain]

With regards to the former West Country to Scotland sleepers, does anyone have any timings?

Rough timings, would need an old timetable to confirm

21:30 Glasgow - Plymouth (via Edinburgh)
Plymouth - Edinburgh (06:35) - Glasgow (08:15)

Prior to that the sleeper departed Glasgow (21:50) and Edinburgh (21:45) separately
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the BBC story is, as Peter Mugridge said, just a rehash of a FGW press release some 3 weeks ago.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?id=671

I've just had my confirmation from FGW, including that link
They are slightly angry that BBC has taken three weeks to catch up...
They sent that press release out on Monday 07 June for publication on Wednesday 16 June
I too received it on 07 June, and had already noted it advised of 4 sleepers, which is what it was when I used it last year; a 0% increase
For the number of passengers in berths we could have had a sleeper coach each!

 

[route101]

Though it will never happen i can imagine a Scotland - West Country sleeper , Jointly operated by FGW and FSR Maybe it could run in the summer and Bristol would be a handy destination on the Route too

 

[Goldfish62]

The last time I got the Night Riveira a Sunday in November from Paddington i counted 8 passengers getting on!

Staff I know at FGW say it's well loaded most of the time.

As regards high costs, one of the reasons is that some signal boxes in Cornwall have to manned overnight just for the sleeper - thus it incurs some fairly hefty charges from NR. When the mail trains still ran the costs were shared. Immediately after these stopped the continued viability of the sleepers was brought into question.

Other postings are quite correct when they state that many businesses willingly run operations at a loss.This can be good business sense. It is often possible for overheads to be spread more thinly, thus benefiting the whole business. Also, any ceasing of the loss-making part of the business can impact more widely. Eg, many sleeper passengers will use a day service in the opposite direction. Without the sleeper it is likely these passengers would be lost altogether.

 

[Metroland]

Supermarkets sell booze at a loss, lot of interconnecting airline flights on hub-and-spoke often run at a loss, as two examples.

The former would be for promotional reasons, the latter to provide a cross subsidised network.

Train companies are no different.

 

[eddie62]

The number of sleeper coaches included in the Night Riviera vary from day to day even now, coaches being added or removed at Old Oak Common. Costs of the service include running 4 Class 57s which are notoriously unreliable. Providing drivers trained on the Class 57s at Paddington, Exeter, Plymouth and Penzance plus the sleeper car staff who lodge at each end of the journey. The sleepers are worked by Exeter drivers and to a large extent, Exeter high speed depot only exists because of this work.

 

[Dennis]

Supermarkets sell booze at a loss,
Train companies are no different.

Yes they are; Tesco etc. don't get given £5m of taxpayers money every year specifically to sell products at a loss.

 

[hello]

like i said before their is no subsidy for this service either, would be go to see the glasgow plymouth sleeper return

 

[rail-britain]

like i said before their is no subsidy for this service either, would be go to see the glasgow plymouth sleeper return

FGW do receive a subsidy, specific to the retention of their sleeper service
Otherwise which service are you referring to that does not attract a subsidy?

 

[Failed Unit]

Yes they are; Tesco etc. don't get given £5m of taxpayers money every year specifically to sell products at a loss.

That could be debated on the booze front We then pay to pump the stomarchs of the people that can't take it.

 

[BRX]

I think one of the problems with the sleepers in the UK is the 2 person cabin arrangement. Many people aren't too keen on sharing with a stranger and I don't know if it's a very efficient use of space.
If new stock were to be built, I think it should be something like the German Talgo stock with individual curtained bunks off a continuous corridor.

 

[gordonthemoron]

and where on earth are the german Talgo stock?

 

[Metroland]

Yes they are; Tesco etc. don't get given £5m of taxpayers money every year specifically to sell products at a loss.

Depends if you want to count tax credits, indirect manufacturing grants and agricultural subsidy.

Tescos doesn't have it's product list written by the government, or loss making services retained for public good. Point is, selling things at a loss is actually quite common.

Of course if people would prefer a purely commercial railway, let's just have the GWML as far as Cardiff, the SE commuter network, the ECML as far as Newcastle and the WCML.

Though I will be demanding that everyone pays for their own Heath, Education, Social services etc and the money I save on tax I'll buy a car.

 

[route101]

in europe you get all the sleeper arrangements from one bed to 6 couchettes . ive heard that even bosnian railways have ordered them talgos .

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think one of the problems with the sleepers in the UK is the 2 person cabin arrangement. Many people aren't too keen on sharing with a stranger and I don't know if it's a very efficient use of space.
If new stock were to be built, I think it should be something like the German Talgo stock with individual curtained bunks off a continuous corridor.

Curtained bunks?! Robbers paradise, I fear...!!

 

[route101]

im sure the curtained bunks are used in the former ussr . I think there is 3rd class where there is no curtains .

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am told that apparently the Penzance to Paddington tonight ( 8th / 9th July ) has FIVE Sleeper cars on it.

 

[rail-britain]

Quite possible, that would put five in place for :
Friday Paddington - Penzance
Sunday Penzance - Paddington

However the other set will then only have three

 

[gordonthemoron]

Curtained bunks?! Robbers paradise, I fear...!!

It works in Germany because there is very little crime, probably wouldn't work elsewhere.

Incidently, the curtained bunks were couchettes, the sleeping compartments did have doors. The couchettes on these Talgos were the best I've used, the normal DB CNL ones are rather hard.

 

[richw]

I am told that apparently the Penzance to Paddington tonight ( 8th / 9th July ) has FIVE Sleeper cars on it.

i thought it had 5 on this morning passing my house, but then i decided was my imagination being so tired, as my partner and i had our first baby arrive on Tuesday

 

[Oliver]

i thought it had 5 on this morning passing my house, but then i decided was my imagination being so tired, as my partner and i had our first baby arrive on Tuesday

Congratulations. Counting sleepers will be the closest you'll get to sleeping for some months.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Curtained bunks?! Robbers paradise, I fear...!!

Not necessarily. I've used them quite safely on a (admittedly quite empty) VIA Rail service in Canada. You can button them closed from the inside, and sleep with your valuables above you or on the side of you furthest from the aisle. Makes more lovely wide berths too, when you sleep parallel with the length of the train

 

[gordonthemoron]

actually, if I remember rightly, there is a locker by each couchette which you can store your valuables in

 

[tbtc]

Quite possible, that would put five in place for :
Friday Paddington - Penzance
Sunday Penzance - Paddington

However the other set will then only have three

To me that sounds the best use of resources, since there will presumably be more people from "London" wanting a weekend break in "Cornwall" than the other way round

 

[rail-britain]

To the un"train"ed eye that would then look like the sleeper has been lengthened / improved / expanded

 

[455driver]

Quite possible, that would put five in place for :
Friday Paddington - Penzance
Sunday Penzance - Paddington

However the other set will then only have three

How do you work that out, FGW have 10 sleepers- (10532,534,563,584,589,590,594,601,612,616) and only normally use 8; so just a question of putting one of the spares in the set.
In your scenario, if one was taken out of one set, how do they get it into the other, as one set is in London, the other at Penzance!

 

[rail-britain]

FGW only have eight operational sleepers
They are normally placed into two rakes of three sleepers

Current formations :
LA84 10532 10534 10594 10584
LA85 10590 10601 10616 10589
Spare 10612 (maintenance swap)
10563 is not available

The operational spares are 10584 and 10589, which have been added
If any of these eight break down, then only 10612 is available as a spare

Last summer it was also increased to four, the rake I was on :
10589 10532 10594 10612

 

[455driver]

FGW only have eight operational sleepers
They are placed into four rakes of two sleepers, which are then paired together

Current formations :
LA84 10532 10534 + 10594 10584
LA85 10590 10601 + 10616 10589
Spare 10612 (maintenance swap)
10563 is not available

On Wed 30/06/10 1C99 was-
57603,17174,12100,10232,10590,10616,10532,10594.

On Tuesday 11/05/10 1A40 was-
57605,10594,10584,10563,10590,10219,12161,17175.
So the "sets" seem to be all over the place and 10563 was in use on 11/05 so cant be too much wrong with it, I take it is is heavy maintenance rather than a problem with it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I slept in 10563 on the night of 16th / 17th June while positioning back home from Penzance after doing my "End to End" trip.

Most likely all the vehicles are being rotated regularly to keep maintenance and mileage even?

 

[rail-britain]

10563 has been out of service since mid June
It could be used as a spare and put into service if required, but apparently it has a fault awaiting a repair