FGW Class 142

[charlee]

Class 142's, they are soo soo old and i am suprised they are still operating to this date. They are very uncomfortable, they sort of shake and i dont see why the 166's can be given to south-west operations. If they can operate here that is.

Are there any plans to get rid of them soon?

But all FGW stock in the south west is old in general i guess. and i dont think that will change soon

 

[WillPS]

They're actually Northern 142s which FGW have on "short-term lease" (inverted commas because it's been more-or-less half a decade now!). This is why they now all carry Northern's base colour.

They are returning imminently pending the arrival of 150s from London Midland.

 

[Schnellzug]

They are, as observed, returning to their natural habitat before long.
Actually I don't actually mind them, they give a good view.

 

[150001]

Yeah, I like them actually. Prefer them to 143s.

 

[swt_passenger]

... I dont see why the 166's can (can't?) be given to south-west operations. If they can operate here that is.

The main problem is what do you use on the 166's current routes - until you sort that out the 166s will have to stay where they are.

Luckily the GW electrification plans will release some FGW DMUs for use somewhere, (subject to gauge clearance); but it cannot be guaranteed they'll even stay with FGW, because as stock is replaced in the London area it will go back to the owner and a business case will have to be made to use it somewhere else.

 

[Wolvercoter]

Yeah, I like them actually. Prefer them to 143s.

Me too! I, for one, will be sad to see the 142s go. They afford great views over the Exe Estuary, and along the coast at Dawlish. They also, in the main, have good facilities for bikes.

But, I don't use them daily so I'm sure the regular users of these trains will be glad to see 'proper' trains replace them.

 

[anthony263]

I know there are some in FGW who want to do a farewell tour for the class 142's.

In fact someone has suggested on wnxx about running 1 on a sunday into London Paddington

 

[gnolife]

Me too! I, for one, will be sad to see the 142s go. They afford great views over the Exe Estuary, and along the coast at Dawlish. They also, in the main, have good facilities for bikes.

But, I don't use them daily so I'm sure the regular users of these trains will be glad to see 'proper' trains replace them.

Whereas people in the north will be sorry to see proper trains go in favor of them

 

[starrymarkb]

Class 142's, they are soo soo old and i am suprised they are still operating to this date. They are very uncomfortable, they sort of shake and i dont see why the 166's can be given to south-west operations. If they can operate here that is.

Are there any plans to get rid of them soon?

But all FGW stock in the south west is old in general i guess. and i dont think that will change soon

The 142s were only a short term hire, blame Bombardier for delays to the new 172 trains for Birmingham (with the 150 fleet moving south west when the new trains are in service) causing them to hang around longer then expected

 

[WestCoast]

They are, as observed, returning to their natural habitat before long.
Actually I don't actually mind them, they give a good view.

Yeah, busy commuter routes in the North of England.:roll: These lines would have survived without Pacers.

Class 142's, they are soo soo old and i am suprised they are still operating to this date. They are very uncomfortable, they sort of shake and i dont see why the 166's can be given to south-west operations. If they can operate here that is.

Are there any plans to get rid of them soon?

But all FGW stock in the south west is old in general i guess. and i dont think that will change soon

Try Northern Rail with a fleet of almost 100 Pacers!

Pacers threads are getting boring now, although I will defend the right for regular users to moan!

 

[fgwrich]

I know id almost get shot down by some people for saying this, but actually, id keep them down there!

The 142s & 143s are perfectly suited to the start stop nature of the Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton services - Not too a tedious run for them, better lugguage space on the 142s than the 150s...Ideally i find them much better than a 150 for those services!

 

[175001]

Pacers threads are getting boring now

Can't agree more.

 

[Drsatan]

I know id almost get shot down by some people for saying this, but actually, id keep them down there!

The 142s & 143s are perfectly suited to the start stop nature of the Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton services - Not too a tedious run for them, better lugguage space on the 142s than the 150s...Ideally i find them much better than a 150 for those services!

I accept that they have greater bike space but the ride quality of Pacers, especially on the bits of the Barnstaple branch which don't have CWR, is appalling.

 

[Schnellzug]

I know there are some in FGW who want to do a farewell tour for the class 142's.

In fact someone has suggested on wnxx about running 1 on a sunday into London Paddington

From Penzance, I hope.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I accept that they have greater bike space but the ride quality of Pacers, especially on the bits of the Barnstaple branch which don't have CWR, is appalling.

Whenever I go down to see my girlfriend (who lives in North Devon), I always pray to get a sprinter! lol. It always seems a bit random what turns up though.

 

[TEW]

There are more and more 150s running now, but previously there was only one 150 out all day on the Devon local services. The 142s are good for the luggage space and views but 150s have more doors, so will lead to quicker dwell times. The slightly longer carriage will mean an increase in capacity where a 150 replaces a 142.

 

[DavidBrown]

As Drsatan says, the ride quality on the Barnstaple branch in particular is dreadful, hence why I'll be jumping for joy when they go. 143's aren't as bad with slightly better seats, and I find the window ledge on the 143's make quite a good armrest - something that doesn't exist on 142's. Looking forward to the luxuries of more regular 150's, though!

 

[HSTEd]

Did anyone ever do a business case as to whether Pacers could be used to reopen branch lines that would never be viable with "real trains"?
That would reduce the cost of displacing them as it would not require the ROSCO to write off the Pacers as scrap.

 

[fgwrich]

As Drsatan says, the ride quality on the Barnstaple branch in particular is dreadful, hence why I'll be jumping for joy when they go. 143's aren't as bad with slightly better seats, and I find the window ledge on the 143's make quite a good armrest - something that doesn't exist on 142's. Looking forward to the luxuries of more regular 150's, though!

Oh i know! Thats why i mean the 142s & 143s do a pretty fine job on the Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton services where most (bar some of the Avocet line) is CWR...The Barnstaple branch - i agree, is not a 142 friendly line and considering its length, id rather see something more like a pair of 153s, or 156 / 158s on that route!

 

[Nym]

Did anyone ever do a business case as to whether Pacers could be used to reopen branch lines that would never be viable with "real trains"?
That would reduce the cost of displacing them as it would not require the ROSCO to write off the Pacers as scrap.

Not officially to my knowledge, but it would be an interesting one to look at, especially where the line is already there.

If it's a crashworthyness problem, then running them only on isolated lines could be a solution to that.

Anyone else thinking the likes of proper passenger service on...

East Lancs Railway (Joined into ATOC)
Northallerton - Hawes - Skipton
Beverley - York

Or how about (if it be a safety thing) having them only used on branch lines, or sandwiched between other sprinter units?

153 + 142 + 142 + 142 + 153?

 

[WillPS]

The problem forcing their demise is not crashworthiness but accessibility; their step entrance means they will not comply with DDA regulations c.2020

 

[HSTEd]

The problem forcing their demise is not crashworthiness but accessibility; their step entrance means they will not comply with DDA regulations c.2020

On lightly used branch lines that would almost certainly be at or near a loss regardless of what rolling stock is on them, you could probably make an argument that it is a "living museum" that just happens to run regular timetabled services.
That could probably get you a DDA waiver like those Routemaster bus routes that remain in London will get.

EDIT: you could always make a next generation pacer using low floor bus parts for level access....

 

[WillPS]

I don't really think you could claim that sort of dispensation when we're talking about reopening lines.

 

[Harlesden]

(sorry someone beat me to it about the 142's inability to comply with the terms of the DDA)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't really think you could claim that sort of dispensation when we're talking about reopening lines.

You have made this point very clear as any reopened line would need to conform to the current regulations in all respects.

 

[BestWestern]

I'm a tad baffled by this regular point about the Pacers' stepped entrances; surely if appropriate (long!) ramps are provided the problem is negated? Or even 'box in' the lowered step area in order to bring it flush with the rest of the floor, modifying the doors accordingly. Can't be that diffcult surely, they're about as basic as a train can be! Wheelchairs can be stowed by the cab ends, and on short branch workings a toilet is not an issue.

 

[Schnellzug]

it's a bit academical anyway isn't it, since they'll surely be worn out by 2020. Any lines that have been successfully reopened by then could be the recepient of some cascaded Sprinters by then, surely.

 

[DarloRich]

I belive that the lesser spotted skipper units were driven FROM their natural habitat of the south west and dumped on us up north!

 

[WillPS]

I'm a tad baffled by this regular point about the Pacers' stepped entrances; surely if appropriate (long!) ramps are provided the problem is negated? Or even 'box in' the lowered step area in order to bring it flush with the rest of the floor, modifying the doors accordingly. Can't be that diffcult surely, they're about as basic as a train can be! Wheelchairs can be stowed by the cab ends, and on short branch workings a toilet is not an issue.

The point of the DDA regulations is to try and make life as normal and easy as possible for those with disabilities. For example, an average wheelchair user requires no assistance when using a Turbostar, but will need to get the attention of staff in a Pacer.

The step is there for a reason, if it was possible to lower the floor I expect this would have been done.

It's a totally bizarre debate though. These units were considered life-expired and thus valueless at the time of privatisation 15 years ago. That they're still in service is testament to the lack of train orders considering the massive rise in passenger numbers.

 

[Nym]

Or the build quality of British Leyland combined with the skills of the Maintenance staff at Newton Heath and Heaton to keep them going?