FGW at Paddington still getting evening Off Peak validity spectacularly wrong.

[Bletchleyite]

I'd be interested to see what the walk-up/Advance split is on off-peak trains.

I think it's tending more and more towards Advances. But that doesn't matter - what matters is that the regulated Off Peak Return, as much as I like it, knackers yield management by providing a relatively low cap on what are very busy trains, e.g. Friday evening/Sunday afternoon. As long as that exists it'll be impossible to yield manage properly.

 

[bb21]

Set correctly, lower prices stimulate demand. Source: How many people considered a European mini-break pre EasyJet and Ryanair?

So the lost peak revenue is made up for by busier off-peak services. Again, the airlines have this down to a science.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'd be interested to see what the walk-up/Advance split is on off-peak trains.

Off-Peak demand increases will take time to realize. Who is going to fund the revenue shortfalls in the interim?

We are drifting a bit here folks. I'm just as guilty.

Meanwhile I'm off to Aylesbury for work tomorrow, via Paddington. My ticket is of course an Off Peak one, and I'll be headed home through Paddington between 4-5pm. Let's see how the gateline copes with another unrestricted ticket. This one is neither F3 or C4...

I am starting to think that you may need a new face if you wish to carry out any more meaningful testing.

 

[talltim]

Most people traveling peak out of London will be using seasons anyway, making it difficult to control which trains they get.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most people traveling peak out of London will be using seasons anyway, making it difficult to control which trains they get.

True, though some TOCs (TPE notably) do "early bird seasons" for those travelling very early before things get busy, and in German Verbund areas (plus Merseytravel) off-peak seasons also exist.

 

[Deerfold]

Dunno about GWR, but fares are not linked to how busy the train is.

The 1840 Euston to Manchester tomorrow will be quite empty, as usual. The 1900 will be absolutely rammed. The 1920 will be standing room only.

Current prices for tomorrow are
1840: £140.00
1900: £81.40 (£82.40 for a return)

For next Wednesday
1840: £80.00
1900: £81.40 (£82.40 for a return)

The 1900 is flexible and can be used on any train from 1900 onwards. The 1840 is a "catch it or you're screwed".

The reason that the 1840 is empty and the 1900 is rammed is solely to extract the maximum amount from business customers.

That may keep off-peak fares lower, but please don't pretend it's to discourage people from travelling on busy services.

Whilst that may be quite true on Virgin, it's not the case on GWR - all the peak trains are rammed, largely with season ticket holders, making it harder to divert people to off-peak services.

 

[miami]

Whilst that may be quite true on Virgin, it's not the case on GWR - all the peak trains are rammed, largely with season ticket holders, making it harder to divert people to off-peak services.

Yes, the key is Reading -- so many people are only hopping a short trip.

How are other long-distance lines set up? Like GWR (where almost all trains stop within 40 minutes), or like WCML (where a significant portion of long-haul trains are non-stop for the first 90 minutes at least)

 

[AM9]

Yes, the key is Reading -- so many people are only hopping a short trip.

How are other long-distance lines set up? Like GWR (where almost all trains stop within 40 minutes), or like WCML (where a significant portion of long-haul trains are non-stop for the first 90 minutes at least)

Maybe GWR will fix that by making making the Reading stop a pick-up only for long-haul trains (and enforce the rule) when there are sufficient 387s to carry the season ticket holders.
There might be rants from those who currently clutter the HSTs up for their outer suburban journey to the detriment of those with a geniune need to be on those trains, but they will have to get used to the fact that their season ticket only entitles them to travel between points on its validity and is not train-type specific.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe GWR will fix that by making making the Reading stop a pick-up only for long-haul trains (and enforce the rule) when there are sufficient 387s to carry the season ticket holders.

I do hope so. The WCML model is much more effective - get the commuters on the 12-car EMUs and keep them off the ICs.

 

[Haywain]

Maybe GWR will fix that by making making the Reading stop a pick-up only for long-haul trains (and enforce the rule) when there are sufficient 387s to carry the season ticket holders.
There might be rants from those who currently clutter the HSTs up for their outer suburban journey to the detriment of those with a geniune need to be on those trains, but they will have to get used to the fact that their season ticket only entitles them to travel between points on its validity and is not train-type specific.

But having moved the season ticket holders on to the slower trains they would then have to further restrict the Off Peak Day tickets so as not to adversely affect the loadings on those trains.

As an aside, and further to comments above, what really hampers effective yield management in railway terms is regulation. That's regulation of fares and of services, things which the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair don't have to worry about too much. And even within the existing framework yield management is not the same as load management.

 

[Roylang]

Roylang, my offer of an email address of a Customer Service Manager, well versed in Paddington validity issues, still stands. PM me if you are thinking of escalating your complaint.

You have a PM.

Thanks.

Roy

 

[infobleep]

Maybe GWR will fix that by making making the Reading stop a pick-up only for long-haul trains (and enforce the rule) when there are sufficient 387s to carry the season ticket holders.
There might be rants from those who currently clutter the HSTs up for their outer suburban journey to the detriment of those with a geniune need to be on those trains, but they will have to get used to the fact that their season ticket only entitles them to travel between points on its validity and is not train-type specific.

Perhaps they could do something similar to the 18.27 Waterloo to Exeter service. I don't know how packed it us currently but it use to be rammer at Clapham Junction. I don't know if everyone could get on.

Thwy could make that pick up only at Woking for passengers come from Waterloo. I guess the problem then I'd that passengers from Clapham Junction, can't then set down at Woking.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Roylang]

To my mind we need to be careful in what we want to achieve in dissuading people from travelling on the fast services from Paddington to Reading. It is one thing to stop people making just that journey but for people like me, it is just one leg of a 3+ hour journey. Add another 1/2 hour to that by making me travel on a slow service and I will not be happy and driving starts to become more advantageous.

Roy

 

[BestWestern]

To my mind we need to be careful in what we want to achieve in dissuading people from travelling on the fast services from Paddington to Reading. It is one thing to stop people making just that journey but for people like me, it is just one leg of a 3+ hour journey. Add another 1/2 hour to that by making me travel on a slow service and I will not be happy and driving starts to become more advantageous.

Roy

I don't think management of any TOC with peak overcrowding issues would be at all worried if some of the passengers concerned opted to drive instead.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Degrading the journey time would be disappointing in the extreme. The loss to Watford Junction passengers in not being able to use the fast services is only 5 minutes, and that's just about barely acceptable - slows to Reading need to get *way* better before we start forcing suburban commuters onto them.

My personal favourite solution would be to tow behind each HST a shipping container (first class) and a flatbed (standard) for the Reading people.

 

[Elecman]

Slip coaches

 

[Puffing Devil]

Dunno about GWR, but fares are not linked to how busy the train is.

The 1840 Euston to Manchester tomorrow will be quite empty, as usual. The 1900 will be absolutely rammed. The 1920 will be standing room only.

Current prices for tomorrow are
1840: £140.00
1900: £81.40 (£82.40 for a return)

For next Wednesday
1840: £80.00
1900: £81.40 (£82.40 for a return)

The 1900 is flexible and can be used on any train from 1900 onwards. The 1840 is a "catch it or you're screwed".

The reason that the 1840 is empty and the 1900 is rammed is solely to extract the maximum amount from business customers.

That may keep off-peak fares lower, but please don't pretend it's to discourage people from travelling on busy services.

Don't forget the 18h57 relief trains on Thursday and Friday from Euston to Manchester.

 

[bnm]

With a heavy heart I have to report that my chosen HST service off Paddington tonight, the 1715 to Carmarthen (GWR green HST set as it happens), departed from un-barriered platform 8. My valid Off Peak ticket never came to the attention of either gate or human.

 

[AM9]

Degrading the journey time would be disappointing in the extreme. The loss to Watford Junction passengers in not being able to use the fast services is only 5 minutes, and that's just about barely acceptable - slows to Reading need to get *way* better before we start forcing suburban commuters onto them. ...

My suggestion was to provide what would be perfectly adequate accommodation for Reading commuters on 12-car 387s, which means post electrification when they are running an outer suburban service. I would expect them to keep the same timings as the IEP stock give or take a couple of minutes.
Their seating capacity is greater than a 9/10-car 800/801 and dwell times would allow large volumes of ingress/egress in the peak hours. Their crush loading capability would also be vital in times of operational delays. Providing long-haul style stock for a short 30 minute hop is both wasteful in rolling stock costs and line capacity.

 

[Mojo]

I think it's tending more and more towards Advances. But that doesn't matter - what matters is that the regulated Off Peak Return, as much as I like it, knackers yield management by providing a relatively low cap on what are very busy trains, e.g. Friday evening/Sunday afternoon. As long as that exists it'll be impossible to yield manage properly.

Given this thread is about Great Western; then I'm not so convinced.

Some point in last year Great Western made some major changes to their Advance tickets.

I'm very lucky in that I am able to travel on trains that are mostly empty (in fact I can't remember the last time I had to sit next to, or indeed across the aisle from someone on a HST, either going to Bristol PW or Temple M). Before these changes I could often get the bottom tier Advance ticket when booking three days in advance. Since these changes I haven't bought a single one, and in fact on most occasions the Advance ticket has actually cost more than the walk on Super Off-peak single, which in my opinion is a very reasonable price.

Even booking a couple of months in advance I cannot find any Advance tickets on trains that I am planning to use that are more than £2 cheaper than the walk on ticket, despite the fact I know from personal experience that these trains are almost completely empty.

 

[maniacmartin]

Regarding the validity of Luton to Winchester via Paddington and Reading:

The appropriate Routeing Points are West Hampstead - Basingstoke.
West Hampstead to Basingstoke has mapped routes LONDON.
London Group to Basingstoke includes map combination RG + XR which gives a mapped route via Paddington and Reading (change maps at Reading)

Basingstoke and Reading both have a fair few negative easements, but none that I can see that would apply in this case. Therefore, I believe it to be a valid route. (I'll leave the comments about peak times to others)

 

[cactustwirly]

My suggestion was to provide what would be perfectly adequate accommodation for Reading commuters on 12-car 387s, which means post electrification when they are running an outer suburban service. I would expect them to keep the same timings as the IEP stock give or take a couple of minutes.
Their seating capacity is greater than a 9/10-car 800/801 and dwell times would allow large volumes of ingress/egress in the peak hours. Their crush loading capability would also be vital in times of operational delays. Providing long-haul style stock for a short 30 minute hop is both wasteful in rolling stock costs and line capacity.

I doubt there is enough 387s to completely take all Reading commuters, a better solution would be to only make Penzance/Plymouth/Swansea services pick up only at Reading and use 387s to supplement Bristol/Cotswold/Oxford/Cardiff services

 

[BestWestern]

I doubt there is enough 387s to completely take all Reading commuters, a better solution would be to only make Penzance/Plymouth/Swansea services pick up only at Reading and use 387s to supplement Bristol/Cotswold/Oxford/Cardiff services

That is never going to work, though. Regulars are savvy ebough to work out that they can still get to Reading on those trains.

 

[SickyNicky]

That is never going to work, though. Regulars are savvy ebough to work out that they can still get to Reading on those trains.

Then the train sails non-stop through Reading forcing them to go to Swindon (and pay for it ). It has happened.

Anyway, on the 17.22 Paddington to Hereford on Friday, the guard was quite adamant that "no off-peak tickets were valid except those to Malvern and beyond" :roll:. Fortunately the train was very busy and there was no chance of him doing a ticket check beyond clearing out first class.

 

[Hadders]

Anyway, on the 17.22 Paddington to Hereford on Friday, the guard was quite adamant that "no off-peak tickets were valid except those to Malvern and beyond" :roll:. Fortunately the train was very busy and there was no chance of him doing a ticket check beyond clearing out first class.

Sounds like VTEC's Customer Service Manager at Kings Cross who tried to deny me travel during the evening peak using a (perfectly valid) Off Peak ticket.

To be fair to GWR guards I've often heard them make this claim before the train departs but have never had an issue when they come round to inspect tickets. One even congratulated me on my choice of tickets, another gave me a 'knowing' wink!

 

[jon0844]

Sounds like VTEC's Customer Service Manager at Kings Cross who tried to deny me travel during the evening peak using a (perfectly valid) Off Peak ticket.

I was denied travel by East Coast staff, so it's disappointing to hear that it's still happening under Virgin.

What's frustrating is that when I went off to complain and said I'd bring back a member of staff from (the then) FCC to explain that my ticket was valid, he disappeared!

 

[BestWestern]

Then the train sails non-stop through Reading forcing them to go to Swindon (and pay for it ). It has happened.

Anyway, on the 17.22 Paddington to Hereford on Friday, the guard was quite adamant that "no off-peak tickets were valid except those to Malvern and beyond" :roll:. Fortunately the train was very busy and there was no chance of him doing a ticket check beyond clearing out first class.

'Pick up only' at Reading is very different to not stopping at Reading. The picking up train will be advertised in the public timetable from Reading, you'd be penalised for having it randomly failing to call there.

Pre-departure ticket announcements are a tricky subject; it's useful but only if very carefully worded!

 

[Rich McLean]

'Pick up only' at Reading is very different to not stopping at Reading. The picking up train will be advertised in the public timetable from Reading, you'd be penalised for having it randomly failing to call there.

Pre-departure ticket announcements are a tricky subject; it's useful but only if very carefully worded!

It's happened before, mainly the 1915 to Swansea on a Friday which is pu only at Reading. If the train is too full leaving Paddington to the point where passengers are left behind, then a not to stop order for Reading is issued, and have it go RA through to Swindon, as that's the first station where technically passengers should be getting off.

 

[Mag_seven]

It's happened before, mainly the 1915 to Swansea on a Friday which is pu only at Reading. If the train is too full leaving Paddington to the point where passengers are left behind, then a not to stop order for Reading is issued, and have it go RA through to Swindon, as that's the first station where technically passengers should be getting off.

And what if you are at Reading going to South Wales - is it a case of tough luck you will just have to wait for the next South Wales train an hour later?

 

[island]

They sometimes run a relief train originating at Reading; otherwise, it is as though the train were cancelled as respects ex-Reading passengers.

 

[SickyNicky]

And what if you are at Reading going to South Wales - is it a case of tough luck you will just have to wait for the next South Wales train an hour later?

Indeed. But I suspect the thinking is that if the train left people behind at Paddington, there still won't be any room at Reading (where no-one's getting off, in theory).