FGW Advance tickets

[penaltyfines]

But you would put yourself through all this if the fare were £11.50, and won't because the fare is £23 - so the price you put on that inconvenience is £11.50?

There are some journeys where the train is simply not the best option.

Sorry I don't think you get it. What I'm saying, is that in my opinion:

~£30 return for 2 people is good value by car.

~£50 return for 2 people is good value by train.
~£80 isn't.

Arriving in London circa 10pm on a Friday isn't that bad, door-to-door I've found it takes about 20 minutes longer than by train.

 

[Zoe]

~£30 return for 2 people is good value by car.

You can do Taunton to London and back on just £30 of petrol?

 

[paul1609]

Good luck with the M5/M4 on a Friday evening.

If you left Taunton at say 6 pm on a friday evening I reckon the journey to Central London would be just over 3 hours assuming you observed all the speed limits. traffic going towards London would be light after Bristol.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You can do Taunton to London and back on just £30 of petrol?

With a modern diesel car on that sort of journey easily.

 

[Squaddie]

You can do Taunton to London and back on just £30 of petrol?

The round trip would be about 550km. With petrol at £1.20 per litre, you'd need fuel consumption of about 4.5 litres per 100km (or 60 miles per gallon in the old jargon). I'd say that was unlikely, as the average fuel economy of a new, petrol-driven car in the UK is about 42mpg, and that of a new, diesel-driven car is about 48mpg.

 

[wibble]

When you're comparing the cost of a car journey against a rail journey, it's not just fuel you have to think about. You also need to consider things like depreciation of the car, insurance, road tax, possible parking charges etc....

Using theAA's diesel running costs, and assuming you have a small car and do around 15,000 miles a year, a return trip between London and Taunton would cost you about £108 (@ 31.72p per mile, 340 miles with diesel at about 120p per litre)

So, is the car actually cheaper....?

 

[Greenback]

You should include costs other than fuel, but most people don't. To the average person looking to travel on a journey like penaltyfines' trip, if they see a price of, say, £100 per person they will think that's '£200 for the pair of us - I'll drive, it'll only cost me £40'.

Whether the real cost is £40, £50 or even a £100, it's still cheaper to take the car. Unless you place a very high premium on the convenience of rail travel, that will be the end of the decision making process! We do place a high value on rail travel, and ar eusually able to plan our longer trips three months ahead to take advantage of the cheapest Advance tickets we can get. Sometimes we can;t do this, and the price of tickets can be so high that we really can't justify taking the train.

 

[MCR247]

I don't think you should count road tax and insurance when comparing car v train, as if I go by train, I'm still paying for them.

 

[Greenback]

I agree. I would only advocate including the actual running costs, although I did consider the standing charges when deciding whether to purchase a car for myself. I decided against it, meaning we are only a one car family - Mrs Greenback does need one for her work!

 

[penaltyfines]

You can only apportion variable costs to a journey:

Fixed costs:
Road tax
Insurance
MOTs
General depreciation
Breakdown cover
Regular maintenance/services

Variable costs:
Petrol
Mileage-related depreciation
Mileage-related maintenance

You can't count fixed costs as obviously I'd have to pay them if I went by train anyway.

You can play with the figures a bit, maybe £40 for petrol... but it's still cheaper and better value than driving.

Fares should be capped at the same cost per mile (based on average annual fuel costs) off-peak, and twice the cost in peak. I can't see how any other position is defensible?

 

[Greenback]

That would be a great idea if the underlying government policy towards rail was more focussed on social mobility and environmental grounds. Sadly, it isn't and instead we have the distinct possibility that rail fares will be rising even faster than previously over the next few years.

 

[Squaddie]

That would be a great idea if the underlying government policy towards rail was more focussed on social mobility and environmental grounds. Sadly, it isn't and instead we have the distinct possibility that rail fares will be rising even faster than previously over the next few years.

And I would have no problem with rising fares if the onboard experience were better. But train travel in this country is, sadly, generally a thoroughly squalid and miserable experience.

 

[paul1609]

The round trip would be about 550km. With petrol at £1.20 per litre, you'd need fuel consumption of about 4.5 litres per 100km (or 60 miles per gallon in the old jargon). I'd say that was unlikely, as the average fuel economy of a new, petrol-driven car in the UK is about 42mpg, and that of a new, diesel-driven car is about 48mpg.

The average consumption may well that but for a one off non stop journey that is 95% on motorways the Astra Diesel Estates that we have at work would give you change from your £30 I reckon. The return trip to Paddington Station from Taunton is 530 km according to the AA via the M4.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You should include costs other than fuel, but most people don't. To the average person looking to travel on a journey like penaltyfines' trip, if they see a price of, say, £100 per person they will think that's '£200 for the pair of us - I'll drive, it'll only cost me £40'.

Whether the real cost is £40, £50 or even a £100, it's still cheaper to take the car. Unless you place a very high premium on the convenience of rail travel, that will be the end of the decision making process! We do place a high value on rail travel, and ar eusually able to plan our longer trips three months ahead to take advantage of the cheapest Advance tickets we can get. Sometimes we can;t do this, and the price of tickets can be so high that we really can't justify taking the train.

I think that some of the estimates of car costs are also very high.
I can hire a peugeot 207 from Taunton station for £30 a day tomorrow or £85 one way to Paddington I think thats the best indicator of whether train fares are good value.

 

[penaltyfines]

I think that some of the estimates of car costs are also very high.
I can hire a peugeot 207 from Taunton station for £30 a day tomorrow or £85 one way to Paddington I think thats the best indicator of whether train fares are good value.

That's perfectly valid for people that don't own a car - buthe cost comparison for someone that already owns a car is different though.

 

[Greenback]

And I would have no problem with rising fares if the onboard experience were better. But train travel in this country is, sadly, generally a thoroughly squalid and miserable experience.

It can be. It cna also be perfectly comfortable. It very much depends on the type of stock, the route, and the time of the day!

One thing I will say though, is that the TOC's could make all of their trains more comfortable. It just doesn't make business sense for them to do so, as many of them are crowded enough as it is, and there is zero chance of much new stock to increase capacity.

That's perfectly valid for people that don't own a car - buthe cost comparison for someone that already owns a car is different though.

Yes, I think Paul1609 was saying that hriing a car was better value than the train fare. Of course, if you didn;t need to hire a car, because you already have one, then rail looks even worse value.