Fen Line operations

[Aictos]

Just a simple question but when Great Northern introduced the 2nd train per hour between Cambridge and Kings Lynn, was the 2nd train just a extension of the long timetabled Cambridge Cruiser that ran non stop between Kings Cross and Cambridge?

Also are the King's Lynn services all 8 carriages all week thoughout or are some services operated as 8 carriages Kings Cross to Cambridge with front 4 continuing to Kings Lynn with the rear 4 joining a portion from Kings Lynn before it returns to London like they used to do in FCC days?

Apologies but it's a line that I'm not familiar with so wanted to ask please.

 

[Ianno87]

1. There is no second train per hour to King's Lynn - it terminates at Ely. It was an extension of the King's Cross-Cambridge fast service, coinciding with Cambridge North opening.

2. Basically 8 cars to King's Lynn all day every day. I think one or two early/late services still split, but that's about it.

 

[TheDavibob]

There is some splitting from 12-car down to 8 at Cambridge, too.

 

[Aictos]

1. There is no second train per hour to King's Lynn - it terminates at Ely. It was an extension of the King's Cross-Cambridge fast service, coinciding with Cambridge North opening.

2. Basically 8 cars to King's Lynn all day every day. I think one or two early/late services still split, but that's about it.

Thank you, do they have any declassifed 1st Class onboard those services?

 

[Ianno87]

There is some splitting from 12-car down to 8 at Cambridge, too.

Not presently, due to the King's Cross works. Normally, yes there would be.

 

[TheDavibob]

Not presently, due to the King's Cross works. Normally, yes there would be.

They were the Sunday before last, but yes I imagine it's a Sunday only thing (with a much thinner timetable).

 

[thatapanydude]

Thank you, do they have any declassifed 1st Class onboard those services?

No as that is only reserved for the Class 700 (country end) don't run to Kings Lynn. Not that you would want to use FC on the 387 in any case !!

 

[Ianno87]

No as that is only reserved for the Class 700 (country end) don't run to Kings Lynn. Not that you would want to use FC on the 387 in any case !!

There are a couple of 700s per day to King's Lynn at present due to the Kings Cross works. However I don't know whether the rear first class is officially declassified (as they are advertised as Great Northern).

Possibly moot anyway, as I think on-train ticket inspections are still basically non-existent.

 

[Hadders]

I've seen ticket inspections on the GN.

As an aside 1st class on the 387s is a complete waste of time. The seats are exactly the same. If you have the misfortune to be on a 700 then the rear 1st class section is always declassified.

 

[Ianno87]

. If you have the misfortune to be on a 700 then the rear 1st class section is always declassified.

Does that definitely apply when they are on services operated under the "Great Northern" banner (I.e. to Ely and King's Lynn)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 May 2021 ==

As an aside 1st class on the 387s is a complete waste of time.

Not for GTR, who get a slice of the ORCATS first class revenue pie for basically zero effort.

 

[bspahh]

Does that definitely apply when they are on services operated under the "Great Northern" banner (I.e. to Ely and King's Lynn)

No it does not.
https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/tickets/first-class says

A number of stations are served by trains operating on different routes, some with and some without first class. We strongly recommend that you check in advance whether your planned service operates with first class or not. The easiest way to check is through our timetables pages.

If you look at the timetable PDF file and it does not have a 1 at the top, or if it says TL, the first class is declassified. If it says 1 and GN (like for trains that start or end at Kings Cross), then you need a first class ticket, even if the train is in Thameslink livery.

 

[Failed Unit]

You don't get 700s to Kings Lynn anymore following the May 16th Timetable change. They service is back to "normal" with the 700s staying on the Cambridge locals and 32 minute turn around at Kings Cross.

Pre May you the diagrams were mixed in with the Kings Lynn services to reduce the pressure on the Kings Cross platforms.

I did see an 8 car 387 at the front of a 5 car Grand Central (platform 1 at Kings Cross) yesterday. I guess this wasn't possible when they were operating at the other side of the station with platforms 9-11 only 8 car platforms.

 

[Hadders]

The rear 1st class compartment of class 700 trains is always declassified. There is also a front 1st class compartment which is in operation when operating on the GN routes (subject to 1st being shown as in operation on the train).

GTR originally said 1st was going to be enforced in the rear compartment when the 700s started replacing the 365s on the GN routes but very quickly back tracked as it caused too much confusion.

 

[pelli]

Indeed searching Twitter for "from:@GNRailUK declassified 700" shows that certainly in 2019 the rear first class compartment on 700s was declassified even on Great Northern: https://twitter.com/search?q=from:@GNRailUK declassified 700&f=live , for example

Great Northern @GNRailUK Mar 9, 2019
Hi there. The rear first class section is declassified on all of our 700 series. Apologies for the inconvenience. ^Alex.M

As for this web page:

Thameslink services on our long distance routes have first class accommodation. Routes with and without first class are shown below. Where first class is available, this can be found at the very front of the train. The first class compartment at the rear of Thameslink trains is always declassified.

Routes with first class operate between;
Bedford and Brighton
Bedford and Gatwick Airport
Cambridge and Brighton
Peterborough and Horsham
Bedford and East Grinstead

Routes with standard class only operate between;
Luton / St Albans and Sutton
Luton / St Albans and Wimbledon
Luton and Rainham
Luton / St Albans / London Blackfriars and Sevenoaks / Orpington

A number of stations are served by trains operating on different routes, some with and some without first class. We strongly recommend that you check in advance whether your planned service operates with first class or not. The easiest way to check is through our timetables pages.

My interpretation is that the bottom warning is meant to apply to the standard-class-only route list immediately above, warning that just because some Thameslink trains are fully declassified at your station, there may be other (Thameslink or potentially other TOC) trains that are not.

(Edit: spelling)

 

[bspahh]

Indeed searching Twitter for "from:@GNRailUK declassified 700" shows that certainly in 2019 the rear first class compartment on 700s was declassified even on Great Northern: https://twitter.com/search?q=from:@GNRailUK declassified 700&f=live , for example



As for this web page:



My interpretation is that the bottom warning is meant to apply to the standard-class-only route list immediately above, warning that just because some Thameslink trains are fully declassified at your station, there may be other (Thameslink or potentially other TOC) trains that are not.

(Edit: spelling)

It is a bit clearer here:
https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/ticket-types-explained/first-class It says

On routes served by Thameslink trains, first class accommodation can be found at the very front of the train. The first class compartment at the rear of Thameslink trains is always declassified.

and then

A number of stations are served by trains operating on different routes, some with and some without first class. We strongly recommend that you check in advance whether your planned service operates with first class or not. The easiest way to check is through our timetables pages.

The phrase "routes served by Thameslink trains" makes it clearer than just talking about "Thameslink trains" which could be trains in Thameslink livery, or trains covering Thameslink routes on the timetable.

 

[bramling]

It is a bit clearer here:
https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/tickets/ticket-types-explained/first-class It says

and then


The phrase "routes served by Thameslink trains" makes it clearer than just talking about "Thameslink trains" which could be trains in Thameslink livery, or trains covering Thameslink routes on the timetable.

Possibly the more interesting question is what happens if you get 2x387 working a Thameslink service, as certainly happened during the last phase of the KX works. I'd strongly argue that the rear first would be declassified, but not sure if this is actually the case, as the declassification seems to be specific to 700s. Certainly it's never seemed to apply to 365s.

 

[Ianno87]

Possibly the more interesting question is what happens if you get 2x387 working a Thameslink service, as certainly happened during the last phase of the KX works. I'd strongly argue that the rear first would be declassified, but not sure if this is actually the case, as the declassification seems to be specific to 700s. Certainly it's never seemed to apply to 365s.

I certainly think the intent is that it only applies to 700s

 

[bramling]

I certainly think the intent is that it only applies to 700s

I agree, however whatever the intent is, if they are tweeting out that the rear first is declassified on all Thameslink services, then if it’s marked in the timetable as Thameslink I think they’d have difficulty making anything else stick with 387s.