Female Only Carriages

[RichmondCommu]

I've seen the safe zones in Australia and having safe areas on platforms is a good idea, although with trains stopping in different places that could cause some issues of their own.

I think that the safest bet on the train is to be near the guard, or behind the driver on a DOO train - and to not be afraid to scream or run to the cab door and call for help.

Sadly too many victims of sexual assault or rape are too terrified to scream or shout for fear of the possible consequences.

 

[HORNIMANS]

I remember back in late 60's Ladies only compartment on class 308 EMU's also still imbossed in class Ladies waiting room' at Manningtree station today.

 

[Oswyntail]

For inner-suburban trains at least, a better approach is the full-width gangway between carriages. Much more visibility and noise and screams are more likely to be heard elsewhere. Visibility is the only real deterrent. IIRC, one of the reasons "Ladies Only" areas were abandoned was that not only were they identifying where potential victims could be found, but that those found there were already frightened enough to be there and so less likely to resist.

 

[jon0844]

Sadly too many victims of sexual assault or rape are too terrified to scream or shout for fear of the possible consequences.

Well, of course.. I just hope we're not about to start arguing abut which is worse. If the majority of men wouldn't come forward, we don't have any sort of idea how big the problem is - but it can't really be categorised as less serious.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

For inner-suburban trains at least, a better approach is the full-width gangway between carriages. Much more visibility and noise and screams are more likely to be heard elsewhere. Visibility is the only real deterrent. IIRC, one of the reasons "Ladies Only" areas were abandoned was that not only were they identifying where potential victims could be found, but that those found there were already frightened enough to be there and so less likely to resist.

Crime statistics for London Overground have remained pretty static during the period of transition from seperate cars to the current walk through style train. Although it may be easier for someone to get away from a pest it also makes it easier to find a potential victim.

 

[jon0844]

I am purely guessing here, but suspect that a lot of attacks aren't totally opportunistic and someone has gone out with the intention of doing something bad - and so will work around whatever deterrents there are, whether closed carriages, open carriages, CCTV etc.

One consolation that anyone can have after an attack of any kind is the belief that it wasn't anything they did wrong - and were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[WestCoast]

In Sydney, Australia, stations have Night Safe Zones clearly painted on the platform - these line up with the carriage which the guard is in.

New York Subway has the same concept of "Off-Hour Waiting Areas" denoted by yellow signs, which line up with the conductor's car.

Regarding the unfortunate incident mentioned by the OP and the idea of women-only coaches, I am sure there are limited instances of "women-only compartments" being available in continental Europe. Czech Railways have introduced them fairly recently on a trial basis. They are also available in Austria;

For women travelling alone, the ÖBB provides a compartment for ladies only in the ÖBB InterCity trains.

I am also pretty sure some of the '60s WCML stations have indoor waiting rooms with signs denoting "Ladies Only" (I am picturing Warrington Bank Quay here).

However, finally, it's worth mentioning that it's not just women who can fall victim to sexual assault. This rather old article came up as trending on my Facebook feed (probably by some of my friends who are studying law) of an incident that began on the Tube; www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/man-abducted-from-train-and-raped-1557478.html.

 

[trainophile]

If expected to react to a distressed passenger, a DOO driver would need to be able to distinguish between genuine screaming for help while being assaulted, and gangs of hen night females shrieking because they are drunk out of their heads. Is it fair to expect a driver to get involved, when he has enough to concentrate on in his cab?

If nervous women carried a rape alarm, the noise it makes should be sufficient to deter an assailant, as it would deafen him and also attract the attention of anyone else in the vicinity.

Sorry, not detracting from the OP's daughter's horrible experience, but perhaps a rape alarm should be on the shopping list before she travels alone again.

 

[Manchester77]

Did BR ever have women's only carriages? As I was looking at some corporate documents and found this:-
http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/manual/4_301_1.1968-01.jpg

I am very sorry to hear about what happened to you daughter I hope she recovers my thoughts are with you and your daughter

 

[pinguini]

I am also pretty sure some of the '60s WCML stations have indoor waiting rooms with signs denoting "Ladies Only" (I am picturing Warrington Bank Quay here).

We actually still have a Ladies only waiting room at Coventry station.

 

[trainophile]

Passing through Merseyrail's Brunswick Station today, I noticed on the North bound platform a shelter with seating, and posters on the back saying "Safer area". Wondering what this meant - was there CCTV trained on the shelter, or is that the place to board the trains for the coach most likely to have the conductor in?

Haven't seen this on any other M/Rail stations. Is it a new thing, or is Brunswick particularly dangerous?

 

[BestWestern]

We actually still have a Ladies only waiting room at Coventry station.

Hmm, I'd like to see somebody enforcing that one! :roll:

I think what it clear here is that a 'Safe Area' is a good idea; somewhere which for whatever reason is safer than travelling in the dark corners of empty carriages, where people can gather and enjoy safety in numbers. The idea that barring men, because of some deeply misguided belief that we are all knuckle dragging apes unable to control ourselves, is clearly inappropriate in a sensible society. It's also far less likely to stop a bunch of female yobs mugging passengers. If anything it would help them enormously, creating a completely false sense of security. Believe it or not there are some unsavoury females in this world too!

 

[Broken Viking]

First off, my full sympathies and condolences to RichmondCommu and his daughter in light of this sad event. Here's wishing the both of you a rapid and trouble-free recovery.

I fully agree with the concept of "Safe zones", and I will try and suggest this to TOCs when I next write to them (A fairly regular event) and see if they take it on board. I did actually suggest "Ladies Only" carriages to SWT in a letter a few years ago, but they responded to the effect that - Aside from difficulties policing them - The introduction of open-plan rolling stock and withdrawl of the older compartmentised units meant that such a section (In their opinion) would not be as necessary as it was back in BR days.

Aside from avoiding the issue of sexism (Under which "Ladies only" wouldn't be allowed) safe carriages would also be a welcome addition for vulnerable adults of both genders who may need to travel in a monitored environment. I myself have a learning disability which - In my specific case - Causes me little anxiety when using late night trains...But I can certainly state that this is not the case for the vast majority of people with Autism and Aspergers' Syndrome, many of whom might feel quite nervous when travelling with the average late night crowd.

However there is still a distinct and worrying lack of security and Police presence on late night services - Despite incidences like the one detailed in the OP - And even after a very detailed and clear letter to SWT that I wrote following a journey on which our female Guard had been assaulted (Emotionally I believe), I have still yet to see any TravelSafe Officers or BTP on duty on those late night services where I suggested it was needed...Particularly 1B01 ex Waterloo on Wed-Sat nights! hock:

 

[Mikey C]

My condolences for the terrible incident, has the man being caight and charged?

A horrible incident, but thankfully pretty rare. Indeed what are the figures for assaults on trains (male and female) when compared to assaults on people walking home from the station down a dark street after getting off the train?

 

[michael769]

A horrible incident, but thankfully pretty rare. Indeed what are the figures for assaults on trains (male and female) when compared to assaults on people walking home from the station down a dark street after getting off the train?

	Percentage of All violence													
	        2003/04	2004/05	2005/06	2006/07	2007/08	2008/09	2009/10	2010/11	2011/12		
														
Around the home	26	23	25	26	25	20	21	26	22		
Around work	9	7	12	7	7	8	10	7	11			
Street	        28	30	29	31	32	34	32	30	29			 		
Pub or club	21	22	17	18	20	21	19	19	20			 		
Transport	4	3	6	4	4	3	3	3	2			 		
Other location	12	15	11	13	12	14	14	14	16			 		
														
				
Source: Crime Survey for England and Wales, Office for National Statistics

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...e-of-crime-tables--2011-12/rft-7-violence.xls

 

[Flamingo]

Thanks for that Michael. I wonder if rail staff assaults come under the heading of Transport or Work?