fearing fine/penalty

[lostguy]

A couple of weeks ago i was given a £20 fine, the inspector asked for my details and i gave them to him. A couple of days later i paid the fine and that was that.
Fast forward to today, i had a season ticket from Raynes park to Hersham and missed the Hampton court train that i would use to change at Surbiton. In my quick thinking i decided to quickly jump on the the train to Wimbledon and change from there, i caught my train and everything seemed fine. The ticket inspector came to the carriage and asked from my ticket i showed him my ticket and and he asked me where i got on, i said Wimbledon and he told me that i would need to buy an extension. I had no cash so i tried to use my card but although it had money on it i didn't seem to work. The inspector only let me try once and then asked if i had any other payment methods, i told him no and he printed of a penalty fare warning and took my name and signature. My fear is that i may get a penalty or fine as my name may be on the system.

Can anyone tell me if my fear is rational?

 

[bb21]

Were you actually issued a Penalty Fare on the spot today?

 

[lostguy]

I wasn't fined on the spot

 

[island]

What paperwork did you get?

 

[BestWestern]

If there were indeed sufficient funds available on your card, obtain a bank statement to demonstrate this. That should help with any suggestion that you were unable to pay for a ticket when asked - some cards have restrictions on 'offline' transactions (where the equipment used does not directly contact your bank for authorisation) and the railway *sometimes* will not accept these cards. This is an utterly shambolic situation which is not advertised to passengers. Some operators will accept these cards, some won't; some staff working for a particular operator will process them while some of their colleagues will not... You should not be in a position where you are accused of having no means to pay due to those issues, if you can provide evidence that the funds were available.

The penalty fare is another matter, and others are far more qualified to assist. Details are needed though.

 

[lostguy]

So does any one know if I could be sent a fine through the post?

 

[bb21]

What fine? You can't be fined unless it is by the court and you are found guilty of something. You won't get a Penalty Fare now if it was not issued on the spot. Do you mean an offer to pay an administration fee to keep the matter out of court?

Also can you confirm what paperwork, if any, you received on the day of the second incident? What were you asked during the interview?

 

[yorkie]

So does any one know if I could be sent a fine through the post?

The short answer is "no".

The long answer is...

A fine cannot be issued without the matter first going to Court (and you being found, or pleading, guilty).

A Penalty Fare, which some people perceive to be a fine, and is a charge made when a passenger makes a mistake in certain circumstances, cannot be issued retrospectively.

In theory, the Train Company could write to you stating their intention to prosecute and requesting a sum of money to keep the matter out of court, which some people perceive to be a "fine" but actually isn't.

 

[Stigy]

You say he got you to sign something and then just printed off a Penalty Fare warning....did he swipe your debit card? This sometimes works although I believe SWT have a policy not to do this these days but that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't occur. It sounds like you may have been spoken to by a Guard not a Revenue person, hence the PF warning and simply an extension being offered. Having your details taken seems strange in such circumstances mind you! If you were reported for not having a ticket you'd have been told the facts would be reported and should have been given a customer contact card. This is the only way you'll be fined, as the matter would possibly go to court that way.

 

[plastictaffy]

Sounds to me that he got the OP to sign a receipt slip for the transaction, then printed out what my TOC calls a "J666". This is basically a few words printed on a standard ticket telling you that you must buy a ticket for the journey you wish to undertake, blah-blah-blah........

Usually, Guards are NOT trained to issue UPFN's, but there are some Guards that can, and will. In 12 months I've issued one. The guy had just lost his job and therefore couldn't get the agency minibus home and got the train with no money. It may perhaps have been one of those, but we are supposed to ask for ID before filling one in.

Lostguy, have you checked your bank statement to see if SWT have or haven't taken the price of the fare? SWT may now write to you asking for the price of the ticket, possibly with an admin charge.

The piece of paper you signed - was it about A5 sized, on headed paper, with a serial number in one of the corners?? There would be three copies of that. You get one, the Guard will pay one of them in with his takings for the relevant department to deal with, and the other will stay in his book. If it was one of those you had, then SWT will more than likely write and ask for some dosh.

 

[bb21]

What is the point of printing off a "J666", since TOCs that operate a Penalty Fare scheme should use RSP9299/PEN stock which has the appropriate warnings at the rear?

 

[plastictaffy]

What is the point of printing off a "J666", since TOCs that operate a Penalty Fare scheme should use RSP9299/PEN stock which has the appropriate warnings at the rear?

Is that the same thing as the aforementioned A5 sized thing I mentioned above??

 

[bb21]

Probably not.

A "J666" is a Penalty Fare warning notice printed on normal credit-card sized ticket stock - as I understand it.

 

[Flamingo]

What is the point of printing off a "J666", since TOCs that operate a Penalty Fare scheme should use RSP9299/PEN stock which has the appropriate warnings at the rear?

I work trains in PF areas, but because my depot is not in a PF area, the ticket stock we get issued does not have a warning on it.

 

[SPADTrap]

How do you print a J666 on avantix? New one on me!

 

[MyFriendMary]

How do you print a J666 on avantix? New one on me!

I think its TOC specific as I tried yesterday on my avantix. SWT guard issued one, I couldn't

 

[Hassocks5489]

Is it one of these? See attached. I have a few in my collection; not all look like this, from memory, but this is the only one for which I have a scan to hand.

 

[Flamingo]

Cool! I want to do that!

 

[PermitToTravel]

What happens if you trying issuing a ticket from J243 (ANY FGW STATION) to J666 (PENALTY WARNING)?

 

[MyFriendMary]

"No fares Exist"



Something along those lines which stops you being able to proceed further

 

[Hassocks5489]

Here's another, from the very early days of Avantix Mobile (and on a SPORTIS roll ... haven't seen one of these for a while!)

Because it's issued in SPORTIS layout, the NLC J666 is shown, which is quite nice. The issuing NLC 3470 is now assigned to Arriva Trains Wales, Shrewsbury, so it would have been issued by them in the very early days of their franchise. Sorry for the poor quality of the scan.

 

[bb21]

I remotely remember that J666 should be issued with the origin "Any [TOC] Station" from something I read a few years back. Perhaps it would work by issuing from there? For example, FGW would be J243, FCC would be J248, and same for other TOCs.

Obviously these instructions may now be out-of-date.

 

[sarahj]

I444 to J666

 

[jon0844]

Knight to Queen's Bishop 3