FCC - Travelling on train using coach ticket

[kayteez_x]

Hi there, I'm in the current situation as you were and I don't know what to do. Im really worried, it only happened yesterday but I'm starting to get headaches from thinking what is going ro happen. Please can you advise me what you did to solve your situation into a fine and what happened when you recieved the notice because the inspector said he couldn't help me and walked on to another train. thanks

 

[Greenback]

Hi Kayteez x

Welcome to the forums.

Please can you let us have the details of what happened so that we can provide some advice. Thanks.

 

[kayteez_x]

I had purchase coach tickets to get to hatfield and back. I called greenline to confirm where I be getting my coach and said Hatfield station. When i had arrive there earlier to ensure where it was, I could not see where to catch it so I had call them call up and ask if I can get a train to get the coach from somewhere else but due to the bad signal, they had incorrectly heard what I said and replied yes as I had called to check this after this incident has happened, they said no.

But unfortunately me and my friend got on the train to kings cross from hatfield and two inspectors had arrived on the train. I told the inspector i have a ticket, i booked it online and its on my phone but due to the signal I was unable to show this as i could not access my email and even though if I did, i now know it will still be an invalid ticket therefore, I am willing to pay the fine as I know this is my mistake. When i could not access my email, he than said I will have to issue a fine and I was like okay than. He asked if i had a debit card but unfortunately I hadn't carried it on me and than asked if I had cash and i replied yes, £5. He than asked if I had ID so i had given my college ID as i didnt have any other form of ID because I tend to lose my things so i dont tend to carry my provisional. He than asked for my address and I had written my fathers address as he is to deal with these kind of things as he understand English. He than tried looking for my address but for some reason he was unable to so I followed him off the train and than given him my mothers address as my parents are separated.
But if I was ever to get in these sort of situation, my father is the address that is given in these sort of situation. He than asked again if I had any form of ID but I didnt carry anything confirming my address but than I had given him my oyster card instead as I thought this may help. I had even explain to the inspector my parents are separated and why I had given my fathers address. But as I searched for ID, he had mention 'so I see you have money' and i replied 'yes, i already told you i had £5 already'. He tried to make me seen as If i had lied but i was being honest as I told him earlier on the train.
He than start writing my details down and than said that's it. I thought i would have got the same fine as my friend (£20 penalty fine) but instead I got a prosecution fine and im really confused why, after I got some form of paperwork off him. So I asked him what happens now and he replied he doesn't know and i will have to wait. I than follow him to next platform telling him, he could speak to my father, cofirming the address but he refuse to listen and said your wasting your time. My friend finally catched up to me and said it may have been because you didnt give the £5 so than I went back to the inspector and said you can have the £5 even if that means i cant get home but i will find a way. But he still refuse to listen to me. He just said its done now.
I was confused, i didnt receive no paper work or any information of what was happening or what will happen and why I had received a prosecution fine than a penalty notice.I thought I had got a penalty fare but it will be sent to my house but I was wrong and this was not explained to me. The inspector just kept saying he doesn't know and he can't help me so I walked away.
But quickly before he was going to board another train, i asked for his reference number but he didn't give it to me and I knew I was in an unfair situation. I than asked if there was someone I can speak to about this and tears off this sheet but it had no information that could help me so I started searching online but I still don't know what to do or what to expect.

Please help and sorry for the very long paragraph.

 

[soil]

Please try and add some paragraphs to your post.

What paperwork have you received? What does it say on it?

 

[island]

It sounds like you may have been reported for consideration of prosecution. You will need to wait until you get a letter in the post.

 

[kayteez_x]

I had to ask for the paper work but it says if you have a valid ticket please send it to the address below within 14days or you will be prosecuted.

And at the time I believe I had a valid ticket but now I know I was wrong so now i dont know what to do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It sounds like you may have been reported for consideration of prosecution. You will need to wait until you get a letter in the post.

But the inspector did not tell me that I will be considered to be prosecuted, he led me to think that I was going to get a penalty fine.

What will the letter say? Will there be a chance to pay a fine?

 

[yorkie]

But the inspector did not tell me that I will be considered to be prosecuted, he led me to think that I was going to get a penalty fine.

If he did not charge a Penalty Fare at the time, then that isn't going to happen now. If you'd like more information about the circumstances in which case a Penalty Fare can be issued I recommend you read about Penalty Fares in our Fares Guide, which I have given you access to (you usually need 5 posts before you can access it), however it doesn't apply to you in this particular case as that isn't the course of action the inspector has taken.

What will the letter say? Will there be a chance to pay a fine?

The letter will probably ask you for your version of events, so that they can consider whether or not to prosecute you. It might offer you the chance to pay an out of court settlement, but if it doesn't, you can still make an offer to settle out of court.

Settling out of court would reduce your costs, as if a Court found you guilty of an offence, a fine imposed by a Court would be in addition to the fare due and any costs incurred by the Train Company. (There is an incentive for the Train Companies to settle out of court: all the money in a settlement goes to them, this is in contrast to a court issuing a fine; the fine would not go to the Train Company).

There is plenty of information in our RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide - Section 10 - Disputes but if there is anything there you are unsure of, feel free to ask us.

 

[Polarbear]

To the OP - you say you had a ticket for Greenline but you then boarded a train to London Kings Cross at Hatfield?

Any ticket bought for use on a Greenline coach would not be valid on a rail service so is it correct to say that you and your friend had no rail tickets at all?

 

[Anon Mouse]

And the thread title says "In First Class Carriage with a Standard Class Ticket" but during the thread there is no mention of the accodation you were in and no suggestion that you had a train ticket as you have said you held a Greenline ticket. I am confused

 

[island]

In fairness the thread title was set by a moderator who broke this off when the OP posted to another thread, so there was lots of confusion.

 

[Anon Mouse]

In fairness the thread title was set by a moderator who broke this off when the OP posted to another thread, so there was lots of confusion.

Ah, I see and to be fair it does make part of the OP's question make a little bit of sense. So I'm presuming that the OP was in standard class and not first class as the thread implies. Still does not explain how the OP said that she had a ticket which was in fact for a Greenline Coach!

 

[causton]

As someone who lives in Hatfield, I do not see how someone could be told that the Greenline coach (the one to/from London at least!) leaves from the station, as it runs on the entirely opposite side of town!

The map on the Greenline website clearly shows this so I have no idea how both the OP and Arriva's customer services both didn't realise they leave from the opposite side of town?

 

[reb0118]

In summary it is my belief that the OP and her friend boarded a train without a valid ticket (her belief that she actually held one, and the confusion regarding the information [or lack of it] given by the coach company is in my view irrelevant).

Like her friend she was offered a penalty fare [PF] to close the matter, the revenue protection inspector [RPI] must have given them the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately it seems that she was either unable or unwilling to pay this. Therefore she was reported for the offence of travelling without a valid ticket. Will will not know if she will face the byelaw or the regulation of railways act 1889 [RoRA] yet - indeed other options may be given or accepted by FCC - we shall have to await the letter and the OP responding here.

I feel also that the potential confusion re the various addresses given may have tipped the RPI towards reporting the passenger rather than offering a PF. Another reason for confusion between the OP and the RPI may be language. From my reading of the OP's posts and also the fact that she inferred in one of those posts that English was not her first language. This is not the OP's fault but does not make communicating in stressful situations any easier.

For the OP and others in this situation when asked for your address always give your registered address. In certain cases your address may not be secure for postal purposes e.g. multiple occupancy but only one letter box or you may have a better address for correspondence e.g. your parent's. In these cases you may after giving your registered address also give another for correspondence purposes.

In short for the OP, you will just have to await the letter from FCC. As has been stated above this may take some time but try not to worry too much (easily said I know).

 

[rdwarr]

In summary it is my belief that the OP and her friend boarded a train without a valid ticket (her belief that she actually held one, and the confusion regarding the information [or lack of it] given by the coach company is in my view irrelevant).

Belief that someoneone holds a valid ticket must be considered relevant if trying to prove a case for intent to evade paying the fare. Clearly the OP has got it wrong here but I don't think they intentionally did anything wrong.

 

[Draconian]

No staff at Hatfield available to ask if your coach ticket was valid for a train journey ?

If you booked a coach ticket what made you think it was ok to be used on a train ?

 

[reb0118]

In summary it is my belief that the OP and her friend boarded a train without a valid ticket (her belief that she actually held one, and the confusion regarding the information [or lack of it] given by the coach company is in my view irrelevant).

Belief that someone holds a valid ticket must be considered relevant if trying to prove a case for intent to evade paying the fare. Clearly the OP has got it wrong here but I don't think they intentionally did anything wrong.

Good point, whilst I stand by my statement that the OP's belief that she held a valid ticket is irrelevant to the fact that she did in fact travel on the train without one, and may in fact be prosecuted for doing so, I will concede that that said belief may be taken into consideration by FCC when they decide whether to go down the byelaw route or the RoRA (NB other routes are possible not limited to e.g. administrative penalty, out of court settlement, or NFA).

In fact I feel that the RPI was of a mind to take this belief into consideration when originally offering the PF to the OP and her friend. Otherwise why did the friend get a PF and not the OP? It was the OP's inability to pay the PF that has resulted in her being reported for further action.

 

[kayteez_x]

As someone who lives in Hatfield, I do not see how someone could be told that the Greenline coach (the one to/from London at least!) leaves from the station, as it runs on the entirely opposite side of town!

The map on the Greenline website clearly shows this so I have no idea how both the OP and Arriva's customer services both didn't realise they leave from the opposite side of town?

It was me and my friend first time in Hertfordshire and we didn't search much on it, we thought we would just work it out once were out there. I called up the line but due to the connection, their must have been a mix up. They must have heard me wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In summary it is my belief that the OP and her friend boarded a train without a valid ticket (her belief that she actually held one, and the confusion regarding the information [or lack of it] given by the coach company is in my view irrelevant).

Like her friend she was offered a penalty fare [PF] to close the matter, the revenue protection inspector [RPI] must have given them the benefit of the doubt, unfortunately it seems that she was either unable or unwilling to pay this. Therefore she was reported for the offence of travelling without a valid ticket. Will will not know if she will face the byelaw or the regulation of railways act 1889 [RoRA] yet - indeed other options may be given or accepted by FCC - we shall have to await the letter and the OP responding here.

I feel also that the potential confusion re the various addresses given may have tipped the RPI towards reporting the passenger rather than offering a PF. Another reason for confusion between the OP and the RPI may be language. From my reading of the OP's posts and also the fact that she inferred in one of those posts that English was not her first language. This is not the OP's fault but does not make communicating in stressful situations any easier.

For the OP and others in this situation when asked for your address always give your registered address. In certain cases your address may not be secure for postal purposes e.g. multiple occupancy but only one letter box or you may have a better address for correspondence e.g. your parent's. In these cases you may after giving your registered address also give another for correspondence purposes.

In short for the OP, you will just have to await the letter from FCC. As has been stated above this may take some time but try not to worry too much (easily said I know).

I know i have made a mistake and I am willing to pay for the fine. at the end of the day, I have invalid ticktet and there isnt much i can do. I have called the coach company and they have apologise but that won't help in my position. I thought I would receive the same fine as my friend, I have never been this situation so I didnt know what to expect. If I had knew I would have gave the £5 within a heartbeat.

And if i was ever to get in trouble, I'm suppose to give my fathers address which is what I did, I even told the inspector that he could speak to him to confirm the address. I wasn't trying to avoid the penaly fare fine. Once I receive the letter, will there be a chance to pay a fine or would I be taken to court? I went to different stations seeing what I could do but because they were different companies, they couldn't help. I'm over worrying about this situation, I'm scared this could go to court and.affect my future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Belief that someoneone holds a valid ticket must be considered relevant if trying to prove a case for intent to evade paying the fare. Clearly the OP has got it wrong here but I don't think they intentionally did anything wrong.

I honestly thought I had a valid ticket. I was even trying to show the inspector but my internet connection wouldn't show.
Now I know, it isn't a valid ticket but if i knew, i would havent got on the train.

The inspector didn't even explain or let me know the procedures. Once it was done, all I knew was I didnt get a penatly fare.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Good point, whilst I stand by my statement that the OP's belief that she held a valid ticket is irrelevant to the fact that she did in fact travel on the train without one, and may in fact be prosecuted for doing so, I will concede that that said belief may be taken into consideration by FCC when they decide whether to go down the byelaw route or the RoRA (NB other routes are possible not limited to e.g. administrative penalty, out of court settlement, or NFA).

In fact I feel that the RPI was of a mind to take this belief into consideration when originally offering the PF to the OP and her friend. Otherwise why did the friend get a PF and not the OP? It was the OP's inability to pay the PF that has resulted in her being reported for further action.

If this is the case, than the inspector should have told me. I would have gave him the £5 although, I needed it to get on the tube after. I would have found alternative way to get home. I thought I had a valid ticket but obviously I know now it isn't. But the inspector should have told me what fine I would receive. This is unfair.

 

[cuccir]

Once I receive the letter, will there be a chance to pay a fine or would I be taken to court? I went to different stations seeing what I could do but because they were different companies, they couldn't help. I'm over worrying about this situation, I'm scared this could go to court and.affect my future.

The letter will probably ask for your version of events.

You or your father should write a clear and factually-correct response to it, remembering that anything in your response could be used as evidence in court. The letter should discuss what happened, and explain how and why you initially believed that you had a valid ticket, but that you now understand that you didn't. In that response, you can say that you are willing to pay the fare, and any administrative costs that FCC have incurred so far. If this is your first offence, I imagine that there's quite a good chance of them taking this offer, though the amount of money will be much higher than the penalty fare that your friend paid.

 

[talltim]

I'm doing my shopping in Tesco, but I think I'll pay in Sainsburys

 

[maniacmartin]

The counter-analogy being:
I'm travelling by FCC, but I think I'll pay at a Southern ticket office

 

[bb21]

Can we refrain from making inappropriate analogies please as this is not helping the OP.

 

[talltim]

I think they are beyond help. While in Switzerland you might be able to travel on a train with a bus ticket here you can't (with a very few exceptions) and I can't see why anyone would think you could.
To be fair my analogy isn't quite right, Tesco Vs Sainsburys is more like two TOCs

 

[MikeWh]

I think they are beyond help.

I don't think that is a very helpful response at all.

While in Switzerland you might be able to travel on a train with a bus ticket here you can't (with a very few exceptions) and I can't see why anyone would think you could.

And if the exception happens to be something you do all the time? It is certainly very easy to travel on buses with a train ticket (plus bus, travelcards, etc).

Sometimes I think a few members here find it difficult to imagine how train ticketing isn't second nature to everyone.

 

[455driver]

Can we refrain from making inappropriate analogies please as this is not helping the OP.

Agreed, it just causes the MODs more work deleting them all.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that is a very helpful response at all.

I agree.

Sometimes I think a few members here find it difficult to imagine how train ticketing isn't second nature to everyone.

Indeed. Given that trains are largely run by companies who also run buses, I cna see why those unfamiliar with public transport may reach an incorrect conclusion when it comes to interavailability.

I think it would be best if anyone feels unable to help does not contribute to a thread, and leaves it to any others who may be able to offer constructive advice, to do so.

 

[RPI]

Being brutally honest I am in 2 minds as to the situation, either a) the OP is extremely naive in believing that a coach ticket was valid for travel on the train, in which case I am sorry but it really now is a case of damage limitation, or b) they are not being entirely straight with us but then it is still a case of damage limitation, OK I am waffling a bit now,

Like others have said you need to wait for FCC to write to you and offer to settle out of court, lucky for the OP FCC generally will aim to settle most cases before going to court, let us know what happens so as to help others in similar situations in the future.