FCC TL back to normal next week (commencing 18th Jan 2010)

[jon0844]

I think this is worthy of a new thread, if it's true!

I'm hearing that the drivers have accepted the new pay deal and won't now strike. As a result, FCC is now saying the normal, proper, TL timetable will commence from Monday.

Does this mean drivers will now return to working overtime and there will be little to no cancellations from now on?

If so, about time!!

 

[David Sinnett]

Worry not, they have enough time to think of another reason.

 

[Aictos]

I think this is worthy of a new thread, if it's true!

I'm hearing that the drivers have accepted the new pay deal and won't now strike. As a result, FCC is now saying the normal, proper, TL timetable will commence from Monday.

Does this mean drivers will now return to working overtime and there will be little to no cancellations from now on?

If so, about time!!

Well it's about time that the Thameslink route gets some good news, might be worth trying for a trip on the route sometime....

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I think this is worthy of a new thread, if it's true!

I'm hearing that the drivers have accepted the new pay deal and won't now strike. As a result, FCC is now saying the normal, proper, TL timetable will commence from Monday.

Does this mean drivers will now return to working overtime and there will be little to no cancellations from now on?

If so, about time!!

I really wish people would stop thinking that just because the drivers are taking the pay deal that everything is going back to normal. Its not. And its not just because of the drivers. Current fleet issues mean we can only run an 80% timetable this week of suddenly every driver agreed to do the required overtime.

Last I heard full 100% timetable to be running from 8th Febuary. That as long as it doesn't snow again.

However that said until the incident at City things this morning were actually running ok!

 

[Tom C]

I think this is worthy of a new thread, if it's true!

I'm hearing that the drivers have accepted the new pay deal and won't now strike. As a result, FCC is now saying the normal, proper, TL timetable will commence from Monday.

Does this mean drivers will now return to working overtime and there will be little to no cancellations from now on?

If so, about time

I would seriously doubt it.

Irrespective of the pay agreement, the full service is still reliant on goodwill from the drivers agreeing to do rest day working.

Whether or not this will happen is open to suggestion but from where I am sitting it is unlikely to happen overnight, if at all.

Last I heard full 100% timetable to be running from 8th Febuary. That as long as it doesn't snow again.

I find it strange that somebody has even touted a date for a return to normal service. Fleet issues seem to have caused a new strain of issues but the main fact remains that getting anywhere near a full service will only rely on goodwill and until the overtime sheets are full it is daft to even put a date into the pot.

 

[jon0844]

My guess is drivers will want to start earning that extra money again, and will see no reason to lose out to make a point. They must be doing this on the GN side as the trains seem to be running pretty much perfectly now.

I may be wrong, but it doesn't take many drivers to do this to make up the shortfall.

Now the rolling stock; well that's a totally different kettle of fish. I guess FCC will be quite looking forward to changing the reason for cancellations, from short formed services or complete lack of trains.

Bombardier can take the blame for a bit perhaps - possibly quite deservedly so.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

I find it strange that somebody has even touted a date for a return to normal service. Fleet issues seem to have caused a new strain of issues but the main fact remains that getting anywhere near a full service will only rely on goodwill and until the overtime sheets are full it is daft to even put a date into the pot.

Basically the date has been given if the weather is ok and the time it takes to get all the needed parts. Currently the issue is a supply chain problem with more parts needed than can be supplied (by someway as well). It does seem since I saw the date its gone missing tho.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My guess is drivers will want to start earning that extra money again, and will see no reason to lose out to make a point. They must be doing this on the GN side as the trains seem to be running pretty much perfectly now.

I may be wrong, but it doesn't take many drivers to do this to make up the shortfall.

Now the rolling stock; well that's a totally different kettle of fish. I guess FCC will be quite looking forward to changing the reason for cancellations, from short formed services or complete lack of trains.

Bombardier can take the blame for a bit perhaps - possibly quite deservedly so.

Bombardier in a way caused this by chain of events. With the 319's covering for the missing 377's FCC was unable to implement mods to the motors. One of these mods were developed after the snow last febuary to avoid multiple flashovers due to snow. The programme got put on hold until enough 377's were are to take the strain. It seems now they have restarted but too late before the snow caused choas with the 319 motors and they started failing all over the place.

It takes alot of drivers to do the overtime. There are numbers but I won't say anything expect the amount needed is in double figures. So alot of drivers need to do overtime to fill this gap. However appilcations for the drivers positions are coming in thick and fast so maybe by the the time we get to the December 2011 timetable we've have loads of spare drivers.

The GN has far less missing drivers than the TL side at the moment so the problems haven't hit as bad there. As for drivers losing out, well now they seem happy to have a life again instead of working every legal vaild hour.

 

[Greenback]

Going from my experiences in the very poorly paid booking office/travel centre, most people work movertime for two reasons

1. they need the extra money to live
2. They want to help the company and their colelagues out

I had colleagues who, despite being poorly paid did not need the money due to pensions from previous jobs etc, but still worked when needed to help staff the office when there were gaps in the roster. Not to do so would have left those in work under even more pressure and would also, maybe, have reduced peoples chances of gettign elave when they wanted it.

I was one of the former group. I need to work every other Sunday and a few hours in the week to make up my pay to a decent amount. I didn;t do this because I enjoyed it, but because I had to.

I'm sure there are drivers who will work overtime because they want/need/desire extra money, but I don;t think there are as many as people might think. It could well be that any thoughts of helping the company have gone out of the cab window!

 

[thelem]

Greenback: I think you'd be surprised about how little you actually "need" to live. I'm talking about sustinance, not comfort, e.g. eating nothing but carbs and wearing 3 jumpers before putting the heating on.

I'm sure the above is not how anyone in this country would desire to live, but please don't abuse the word "need".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To add to the above, if any staff members NEED the overtime to live, then they cannot afford to strike. To me that is a much more concerning concept than commuters getting into work late.

 

[jon0844]

I agree with thelem, and don't think that anyone can suggest you need all of that money just to 'live'.

Now if you've got large debts and a huge mortgage then perhaps you do need more money than normal - but I'm on a similar sort of salary and could never pretend that I am struggling from one month to the next.

I do often find myself back into my overdraft, but I can be honest enough to say that I have a number of regular direct debits (mortage, car, council tax, utility bills, Sky, phone etc).

I could easily cut back on loads of things and have plenty of money to spare. I don't because I'm bad at saving money and also like to enjoy having some money after earning significantly less for some time. Do people regard having to have lots of money to live as in having a couple of holidays, a nice car, being able to eat out regularly...?

Let's be honest; we all want more money. You're not going to get any sympathy votes by pleading poverty, but I would not hold it against anyone that said they want more money.

Even people who are so jealous as to slag off anyone that earns more than them would happily swap places given half a chance. If you thought earning big bucks was 'evil' and the rich should pay for the poor, why would anyone play the Lottery?

 

[Greenback]

Greenback: I think you'd be surprised about how little you actually "need" to live. I'm talking about sustinance, not comfort, e.g. eating nothing but carbs and wearing 3 jumpers before putting the heating on.

I'm sure the above is not how anyone in this country would desire to live, but please don't abuse the word "need".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To add to the above, if any staff members NEED the overtime to live, then they cannot afford to strike. To me that is a much more concerning concept than commuters getting into work late.

That is very true, I used the money from Sunday working to be able to buy books, pay for electricity, TV, phone etc. I take your point that this is to enable a more comfortable lifestyle.

 

[jon0844]

Nothing to be ashamed of either. We all want to better ourselves. If you always knock those wanting to work harder and earn more, then we may as well all become unemployed and live on benefits!

 

[Edvid]

With the '50%' timetable behind us (hopefully), here's something I found (through I Hate Thameslink):
http://eveningstranded.wordpress.com/

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Customer information - updated: Sunday 17 January 2010, 22:15

Thameslink services from Monday 18 January 2010
As a result of the agreement following the recent pay dispute and repairs to our train fleet damaged by the snow and ice, we will be providing significantly more services from Monday 18th January.

Not sure this means a full KO0 timetable or something close. We await the results.

 

[Metroland]

FIRST Capital Connect is running an improved timetable on its Thameslink route this week, with ‘significantly more trains’, but there are signs that the patience of the DfT may be wearing thin after almost three months of disruption.

The company has provided a variety of emergency timetables since its drivers began a virtual ban on overtime and rest day working last October in protest at a proposed pay deal. A revised pay offer has now been accepted, but FCC was hit by further problems this month when the icy weather caused multiple failures of its Class 319 units, which are the backbone of the Thameslink fleet.

The transport secretary Andrew Adonis had remained silent as FCC limped through November and December, but he has now sounded a warning that he is considering ‘all options’ in relation to the franchise.

Meanwhile, there was better news for FCC when the last of its long-delayed Class 377 units arrived on Friday. These have been held up by problems related to the recession which affected suppliers to the Bombardier train-building plant in Derby. The 23 new four-car units, which are being sub-leased from Southern for the time being, should have been in service almost a year ago.

The outlook was looking better on Monday and Tuesday as a much fuller timetable took effect, but fresh disruption affected the Luton to Bedford section on Tuesday, after a person was hit by a train near Leagrave.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/01/19-first-capital-connect-must-recover.html

--------------------


Will this be a red rag to a bull so militant staff make sure the company loses the franchise?

It's worth noting several franchises get strike payments from the DFT

Taxpayers are likely to pick up the tab for a Scotland-wide rail dispute because of a “strike breaker” clause written into the original franchise agreement with ScotRail.

The indemnity provision could cost millions to the public purse. ScotRail will hold negotiations this week with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) over a dispute on who operates doors on a new Glasgow to Edinburgh train service, the Sunday Herald understands.

The existence of the clause sparked a furious reaction from the Tories and trade unions, which accused the previous Labour/LibDem coalition, which signed it off, of “subsidising” industrial disputes.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ll-for-millions-over-scotrail-strike-1.997373

It was reported by one website that FCC have a similar arrangement.


--------------------------

Of course Bob crow and his merry men along with ASLEF will think this is wonderful. In reality all it will mean if FCC get stripped off their franchise is that either:

1) Draconian anti union legislation will be put in its place to stop striking, highly likely under the next government.

2) Investment in the railway will be cut once again and the tax payer will pick up the bill yet again - until the next government where is is rumoured that transport will take a huge hit in cut backs.

 

[CarterUSM]

With all due respect, it's not about who opens and shuts the doors, it's about retaining the guards role on the service from a safety perspective. I find it rather debasing reducing this ongoing argument to the lowest common denominator. I would expect more professional reporting from the herald also incidently. Anyway, rant over, i'm very pleased the capital connect drivers got their deal, the work to rule worked a treat, and being honest, I cannot think of many tears shed over first losing a franchise. I for one would toast the news.

 

[Metroland]

The 'guards' role on was discussed in another thread.

Rail company First Capital Connect could be stripped of its Thameslink franchise if it fails to restore the full timetable.

More than 200,000 commuters a day suffered two months of disruption caused by a combination of not enough drivers and a pay dispute.

At times only half the scheduled timetable ran on the line that links Bedford to Brighton via central London and Gatwick. Following a settlement of the dispute, a full timetable was promised from today.

But the company now appears to have cast doubt on that by saying it will be running “significantly more services” compared with recent weeks.

Commuters and union bosses are demanding that FCC lose the contract and Transport Secretary Lord Adonis said the company needed to improve Thameslink “very significantly and I will look at all options if they fail to do so”.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...in-company-could-lose-thameslink-franchise.do

 

[Aictos]

Well in the worse case viable, I guess Elaine would run the franchise for the DfT under the Greater Thameslink name if First were stripped of it. I don't want to happen but anything is possible.

 

[Failed Unit]

Strange how the 2 halves of the franchise contrast, for me Great Northern has improved lots since first took over. Don't use thameslink enough to comment, but only running 50% of the advertised service for many months isn't going to win many positive comments (unless you are EMT with less trains to delay your services)

 

[CarterUSM]

Yes metroland, I do believe it was discussed elsewhere, my apologies for going over old ground. It would be interesting to see if the government could run the franchise more efficiently and to order if it was withdrawn from first. As I said though, I will shed no tears if they lose it.

 

[Pumbaa]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b2d3dd18-0606-11df-8c97-00144feabdc0.html

The train operator responsible for running the chaotic Thameslink service could be stripped of its franchise if it fails to restore the full timetable by the end of the week, according to Lord Adonis, transport secretary.

More than 200,000 commuters a day have suffered almost three months of severe disruption on the line, which runs between Bedford and Brighton, after drivers refused to work voluntary overtime in a row over pay.

The franchise relies on staff goodwill at weekends because contracts do not include Sunday working.

While the dispute has been officially resolved, services are still running at reduced frequency after the bad weather and problems with old rolling stock had compounded the difficulties with driver shortages.

Although a full timetable was due to operate from Tuesday, passengers have continued to report several delays and cancellations on the line, also called FirstCapital Connect.

Emphasis added personally. Whilst I think it would be bad idea to strip FCC of the franchise, it is encouraging in a fashion to see the public anger hasn't gone unnoticed, and that rail operators are (if this continues) being held publicly accountable.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Forgive me if I'm cynical, but there is an election on the horizon. The best way Lord A can make the public feel warm about the current administration, is by doing a bit of public TOC bashing.

 

[Pumbaa]

Forgive me if I'm cynical, but there is an election on the horizon. The best way Lord A can make the public feel warm about the current administration, is by doing a bit of public TOC bashing.

Not cynical at all

It's called politics isn't it?!

 

[Richardr]

What's more, he has been completely silent on the issue for three months (aside from approving the emergency timetable) and now issues an empty threat after the dispute is settled.

What a waste of time.

 

[jon0844]

The Government can't strip them of their franchise because of issues with rolling stock or problems down to Network Rail. If they do, anyone taking over would inherit the same problems!

FCC isn't to blame for the lateness of the rolling stock either.

I'm not totally defending them, but I can't see how you blame things for something out of their control - and out of control for ANYONE.

First would surely have good grounds for a legal challenge, especially if losing FCC saw them lose everything else as with the rules.

 

[royaloak]

But FCC is responsible for not having enough drivers and relying on overtime and free day working to run a normal timetable.

 

[jon0844]

But FCC is responsible for not having enough drivers and relying on overtime and free day working to run a normal timetable.

That's the part I'm not defending! The other problems that have stopped the full timetable running this week hasn't been down to staff shortages has it? I'm guessing some drivers are now volunteering again.

How come the Government is so interested now that ASLEF has accepted the pay offer and that part is, theoretically, over? It's because they can LOOK tough without having to ACT tough.

A lot of powerful people seem to have actually been affected by the problems, so it's not just people moaning to their MP. As a result, there have been many things written - some things somewhat unfairly - about FCC.

One councillor wrote about how someone had to get a taxi that cost £90 to get home, when FCC was either running services or could have arranged a taxi for that person. And of course, they could have also been sent via the GN side and got a bus (or taxi) from there at significantly less money. I suspect someone did a check on the web and voluntarily got a taxi, then complained after.

FCC did screw up the website though - saying services were cancelled when trains were running (i.e. cancelling all normal trains, but running new ones). From the way they advertised the cancellations you'd never have known if you went on the website for the service updates or got SMS alerts. But, I don't know how the system works - so perhaps it wasn't directly FCCs fault. It could be NR for being late to say they had to run an(other) emergency timetable.

Lord Adonis presumably knows EXACTLY what happened and who did or didn't do what, so I'd guess nothing will happen.

And if it does, Elaine indirectly gets control yet again. She'll be a very happy bunny! If they do, will they scrap overtime and volunteer cover? What will the union say about that?

 

[royaloak]

I wasn't disagreeing with you JM0844, just pointing out what they WERE responsible for.
I agree with all the things you wrote, maybe I should have said so in the post above sorry.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b2d3dd18-0606-11df-8c97-00144feabdc0.html

The train operator responsible for running the chaotic Thameslink service could be stripped of its franchise if it fails to restore the full timetable by the end of the week, according to Lord Adonis, transport secretary.

More than 200,000 commuters a day have suffered almost three months of severe disruption on the line, which runs between Bedford and Brighton, after drivers refused to work voluntary overtime in a row over pay.

The franchise relies on staff goodwill at weekends because contracts do not include Sunday working.

While the dispute has been officially resolved, services are still running at reduced frequency after the bad weather and problems with old rolling stock had compounded the difficulties with driver shortages.

Although a full timetable was due to operate from Tuesday, passengers have continued to report several delays and cancellations on the line, also called FirstCapital Connect.

Emphasis added personally. Whilst I think it would be bad idea to strip FCC of the franchise, it is encouraging in a fashion to see the public anger hasn't gone unnoticed, and that rail operators are (if this continues) being held publicly accountable.

I do love how Network Rail ran the rail network prior to 1994. For that this article lost my understanding.

FCC have actually been running a full timetable athough with some problems and less carriages since Monday. What passengers are complaining about so far is there trains are running to the time they would like. (I know Ive had customers swearing at me this week because the trains were running to time). Its just fashionable right now to have a good at FCC. I mean its FCC's fault that the signals go down now according to the press and passengers. Do your homework folks.

All I will say is the current fleet problems are not something FCC can easily fix as they are awaiting parts from suppliers.

I will admit some of the press seems to have it in for FCC. Ive seen stuff that Sutton was left without train services because of the weather even tho FCC only provide a small part of the trains serving that station and Southern wasn't mentioned.

What is coming out now is a desire from all at FCC to bed in the new 377/5's and just head the service going and things going right. We need a long period of service without things going wrong for everyone and that will only come with time.

Note as well Im not defending FCC, only trying to point out that certain things FCC don't control and FCC have made mistakes. Lets hope those in control at the top manage to learn from these mistakes.

 

[jon0844]

You can only blame FCC for things that they can control/influence. Anything else is just people jumping on the 'sign this petition' bandwagon. From what I could see a short time ago, not many people have signed it anyway. Certainly not enough to have any impact.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/24/petition-over-thameslink-delays

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...mpany-in-Britain-That-sounds-about-right.html

(I posted a comment on the second one, which they did post to their credit and prompted a few comments of its own)

Bob Crow has of course jumped in, but he's not out to strip FCC and get a replacement; he wants renationalisation and nothing less. Of course, he's jumping on the bandwagon but his words are somewhat different to that of everyone else.

God knows what he was talking about with the 'trains from the 1970s Bronx'. What rolling stock would that be, and if trains are being vandalised that much then is that the fault of the operator anyway?

I do also wonder where people get the idea that FCC got rid of the good rolling stock when they took over? Any idea what stock they're talking about? They inherited every single train from the previous operators and have gained many more trains during their time in control - from more 319s to the 377s and 321s. It's bizarre that people believe a TOC can simply sell off old trains! Obviously the media are quick to correct these people, not.

I do think the TL has been a nightmare for some time.. but I'm not sure that FCC has done any worse than anyone else. It wasn't great before 2006 and the only time everything seemed to run nicely was when the central core was closed down. That hardly bodes well for the planned 24tph in 2015 (see separate thread).

People who have presumably been on the new 377s are now moaning that they're still having to use the old trains too.. as if the 377s were going to, or should, replace them all. It's not up to FCC - so if anyone wants brand new trains then write to Lord Adonis and co.