FCC ticketing error in Guardian

[transmanche]

I really don't know what the industry can do beyond that.

Use train numbers on tickets, timetables, departure boards and announcements for all long-distance services - as has been suggested here before.

In this case, the difference between GR6060 and GR4080 [*] would have helped eliminate any confusion. It works well for airlines and for the railways on mainland Europe.

*Although it would be sensible to update the GR code to EC.

 

[bb21]

As a guess, if you had someone at Kings Cross more used to airports, perhaps he didn't understand that trains serve multiple destinations, thus he only looked for trains terminating at York.

Then that person is clearly not safe outside the house on his own.

 

[furlong]

I really don't know what the industry can do beyond that.

Reservation coupons should always tell you the same final destination of the train as that advertised on the station boards.

If you were looking for the 07:00 train to York on the boards, it would be easy enough not to notice that the one you've found actually ended in 8 not 0 and you should have been looking for a train to Edinburgh!

 

[jon0844]

Reservation coupons should always tell you the same final destination of the train as that advertised on the station boards.

That's a fair point. Not necessarily essential, but useful.

If you were looking for the 07:00 train to York on the boards, it would be easy enough not to notice that the one you've found actually ended in 8 not 0 and you should have been looking for a train to Edinburgh!

I think you'd not automatically assume that your destination is where the train goes. If that was the case, I'd never find a single train at King's Cross to get me home to Hatfield!

But, I will undermine even my own argument by saying that there are at times trains set to leave at the same time. And this could cause confusion in other ways, although I'm not sure how many services there are like this at King's Cross as against other stations.

I'm pretty sure that the few at King's Cross are between different operators (FCC and EC) though.

 

[Haywain]

I don't hold a very high opinion of this traveller. They claim not to have been able to find any East Coast staff, but there will have been departures at 07:00, 07:03 and 07:08, all with staff in attendance and I believe that Kings Cross has a ticket office as well, which is not especially difficult to find and must be open at that time of day.

 

[tony6499]

Sounds like the same old excuse, does it matter what train I get ? This one is empty etc

 

[transmanche]

Sounds like the same old excuse, does it matter what train I get ? This one is empty etc

Which to many members of the public, who are unaware of the minutiae of the privatised railway, would seem perfectly reasonable.

 

[duncanp]

Which to many members of the public, who are unaware of the minutiae of the privatised railway, would seem perfectly reasonable.

This has got nothing whatsoever to do with privatisation as advance tickets, or something similar with all the same restrictions, existed under British Rail.

And you try and get on the wrong TGV in France, operated by the nationalised SNCF.

To say nothing of the rules about validating ("compostage") of tickets, where if you forget this you will be subject to a penalty ("tarif de bord") of at least €10.

 

[transmanche]

This has got nothing whatsoever to do with privatisation as advance tickets, or something similar with all the same restrictions, existed under British Rail.

There were comparatively very few APEX fares in the days of BR. AFAIR, even the 'Super Advance' fares did not tie you to a specific train/operator. Since privatisation the number of booked-train-only and operator-specific tickets have risen dramatically.

And I didn't say it was privatisation per se that had caused it, I said that members of the public who did not understand the minutiae of privatisation [as implemented in GB] would not think it unreasonable to 'catch the next train'. I didn't say it was right or wrong - that's just how it is.

What would be better is if you could suggest some easy ways in which the railway industry could educate passengers and help to eradicate mistakes. (I suggested public use of train numbers, just like SNCF do for TGVs in #61.)

 

[MikeWh]

Which to many members of the public, who are unaware of the minutiae of the privatised railway, would seem perfectly reasonable.

This has got nothing whatsoever to do with privatisation as advance tickets, or something similar with all the same restrictions, existed under British Rail.

He didn't say that it did. While there were advance tickets under BR, they weren't called advance. Standardisation (sorry, complification) only occured more recently. If you are not used to doing something then it can be quite a confusing experience. I vividly remember the first time my parents took us to a new kind of fast-food restaurant. We weren't unaccustomed to eating out in London, visiting various establishments several times a year, but never before had we been somewhere where you queued up for your food before sitting down and then ate with your fingers. Many years later and with kids of my own I think nothing of McDonalds or Burger King etc, but that day just seemed wrong.

 

[bb21]

There were comparatively very few APEX fares in the days of BR. AFAIR, even the 'Super Advance' fares did not tie you to a specific train/operator. Since privatisation the number of booked-train-only and operator-specific tickets have risen dramatically.

Super Advances were train-specific. Supersavers were not. One difference is that Super Advances were available with Railcard discounts but Apexes were not, so where they both exist it may be cheaper for the non-Railcard holder to buy the Apex and the Railcard holder to buy the Super Advance.

That is one of the few good things that Simplification did - standardising the terms of Advance fares.

 

[tony6499]

Which to many members of the public, who are unaware of the minutiae of the privatised railway, would seem perfectly reasonable.

It's strange how people can book a flight specifying which airline, which flight and which time they want to travel and have no problem in complying with this but when they do the same with the train ticket they have no manner of problems with understanding the conditions of the ticket.

 

[CNash]

It's strange how people can book a flight specifying which airline, which flight and which time they want to travel and have no problem in complying with this but when they do the same with the train ticket they have no manner of problems with understanding the conditions of the ticket.

There are all kinds of extra validations before air travel. You wouldn't be able to sit down on the wrong flight if you had a ticket for a different one (or for a different operator's flight), whereas on trains you can not only sit down, but complete your journey on the wrong train. Needless to say, full airline-style ticket checks at rail stations would be nearly impossible to implement, hence why we have automatic gatelines to approximate them - but they can't catch things like incorrect advance ticket usage.

 

[duncanp]

It's strange how people can book a flight specifying which airline, which flight and which time they want to travel and have no problem in complying with this but when they do the same with the train ticket they have no manner of problems with understanding the conditions of the ticket.

Have you seen the "Airline" programme on the TV?

You wouldn't believe the number of people who turn up too late for check in, or on the wrong day, or without their passport, or with an out of date passport, and then get very shirty and blame EasyJet when they are denied boarding.

Just goes to show that railways or airlines, privatised or nationalised, there are always people who think the rules don't apply to them.

 

[pjnathanail]

There are all kinds of extra validations before air travel. You wouldn't be able to sit down on the wrong flight if you had a ticket for a different one (or for a different operator's flight), whereas on trains you can not only sit down, but complete your journey on the wrong train. Needless to say, full airline-style ticket checks at rail stations would be nearly impossible to implement, hence why we have automatic gatelines to approximate them - but they can't catch things like incorrect advance ticket usage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18624228

An investigation has been started into how a man from Cornwall was allowed to board the wrong Ryanair plane at Stansted Airport.

Professional surfer Toby Donachie, 19, was supposed to be flying to the south of France, but ended up in Sweden.

He said it raised security issues as his boarding pass was checked twice.

The airline said responsibility for boarding the correct aircraft lay with passengers, but added it had asked its handling agent to investigate.

So clearly it can happen occasionally, and again the responsibility lies with the passenger

 

[jon0844]

Most airlines surely don't just look at boarding cards, they scan them.

Ryanair never used to check my passport either, so it doesn't surprise me that much, although the crew will usually check and announce the flight and where it's going before the doors close.

 

[island]

Most airlines surely don't just look at boarding cards, they scan them.

This will normally be enough to make sure the passenger is going through the right gate, as the scanner will sound a warning beep if not. However, Ruinair boards all of its flights via steps (and indeed most airlines board at least some in this way) and a passenger may still end up on the wrong plane unless boarding passes are properly checked at the entrance.

However, this is a symptom of people not taking responsibility for their own actions.

Better stop before I go even further off topic.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's strange how people can book a flight specifying which airline, which flight and which time they want to travel and have no problem in complying with this but when they do the same with the train ticket they have no manner of problems with understanding the conditions of the ticket.

Airlines, as has been argued before, are very different.

Not least because an airline doesn't send a second plane to the same place eight minutes after the first one.

If this guy had turned up at 1000 then charging him for a new ticket is reasonable- although this should be the cheapest ticket and the advance fare should be used as part payment. But he didn't. He got on the 0708 to York instead of the 0700 to Edinburgh. It's not a big mistake and it is very easily done. I know rules is rules and all that but really? Charging a guy £130 for getting on a train eight minutes behind the one he should have boarded? I hope the guard feels so proud of himself and really enjoys that extra £6.50 commission, because he's really earned it.

It's funny how when an EastCoast train is eight minutes late the boot is very firmly on the other foot, isn't it? "Technically this train is actually on time, so no, you can't have compensation".

 

[Flamingo]

But if you turn up and try and get on the 1907 Ryanair when your ticket is for the 1900 Easyjet...

 

[CNash]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18624228

So clearly it can happen occasionally, and again the responsibility lies with the passenger

This is a very occasional occurrence (as evidenced by the fact that it merits a report by the BBC!) - I'd hazard a guess that a number of people get on the wrong train with an advance ticket every day.

 

[sheff1]

But if you turn up and try and get on the 1907 Ryanair when your ticket is for the 1900 Easyjet...

I thought the two trains in question were both East Coast. If one was, say, Grand Central your analagy would be more relevant.

 

[jon0844]

Not least because an airline doesn't send a second plane to the same place eight minutes after the first one.

I'm fairly sure that BA or someone run some flights very close together to the same place at some times of the day/year.

In any case, you need to be on the right plane - delayed or not. Or change your booking/ticket.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It normally only happens where there is codesharing; your "Qatar Airways" flight may actually be an American Airlines one.

I know codesharing confuses a lot of people, but then airports have sufficient staff (usually) to help. And you get told your departure gate when you check in.

But airlines and trains are not comparable any more than trains and Tesco are comparable.

As I said, if the guy had turned up three hours late, or had got on a Grand Central, I'd have less sympathy. But given the nature of the mistake, and given that East Coast give you sweet FA in compensation when the roles are reversed, I'd have to question why their guard didn't show a teensy bit of common sense. I hope he doesn't spend his £6.50 all at once.

 

[island]

I'm fairly sure that BA or someone run some flights very close together to the same place at some times of the day/year.

In any case, you need to be on the right plane - delayed or not. Or change your booking/ticket.

I was on a flight from EDI-LHR once on BMI (RIP) and while boarding a number of passengers were rejected because they were for the next flight.

Anyway, we're going miles off-topic. Fact of the matter is that the passenger made a mistake, paid the appropriate price for that mistake, and got most of his money back.

 

[bb21]

I know codesharing confuses a lot of people, but then airports have sufficient staff (usually) to help. And you get told your departure gate when you check in.

Not always.

 

[jon0844]

It normally only happens where there is codesharing; your "Qatar Airways" flight may actually be an American Airlines one.

Flight shares are normally shown the once, with the flight ID changing.

I'm talking about an airline running two flights in close succession to the same destination, presumably due to higher levels of demand at a specific time.

Certainly in February, there will be more flights put on for Barcelona as the world's biggest telecommunication event takes place.

 

[Flamingo]

Flight shares are normally shown the once, with the flight ID changing.

I'm talking about an airline running two flights in close succession to the same destination, presumably due to higher levels of demand at a specific time.

Certainly in February, there will be more flights put on for Barcelona as the world's biggest telecommunication event takes place.

can't they videoconference?

 

[jon0844]

Haha!

Just goes to show that even people that live and breathe technology and communication still like to meet people face to face every now and then.

Don't let the anti-HS2 brigade hear that.

 

[transmanche]

He got on the 0708 to York instead of the 0700 to Edinburgh. It's not a big mistake and it is very easily done.

As demonstrated in reverse on Tuesday evening's episode of All Aboard: East Coast Trains; where a passenger tried to board the xx:00 on Platform 1 at King's Cross, when he should have boarded the xx:08 on Platform 0.