• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

FCC Thameslink... Getting to the point of Enough is Enough

Status
Not open for further replies.

Oswyntail

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2009
Messages
4,183
Location
Yorkshire
Fair point. It's easy to do a blame game but it seems joe public seems to think that it's the TOC who causes the intrastructure. Prehaps explaining to them how the system is set up with help them understand that there is a limit to what they can do.....
Yes...and no.
The public don't want to purchase their service from FCC, VT, XC or whoever. They want to travel on "the railway". It should be completely irrelevant who the operator is (that's called "franchising") or how the various levels of "the railway" work. It is up to FCC to keep their customers happy, and take the flak - and to send the s**t rolling downhill onto NR if necessary.
If, however, the system was explained fully and clearly, then perhaps enough influential people outside DfT and the industry would be able to say how unutterably stupidly it runs, and apply public pressure to get it put right.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
Yes...and no.
The public don't want to purchase their service from FCC, VT, XC or whoever. They want to travel on "the railway". It should be completely irrelevant who the operator is (that's called "franchising") or how the various levels of "the railway" work. It is up to FCC to keep their customers happy, and take the flak - and to send the s**t rolling downhill onto NR if necessary.
If, however, the system was explained fully and clearly, then perhaps enough influential people outside DfT and the industry would be able to say how unutterably stupidly it runs, and apply public pressure to get it put right.

Fair point. The again even if there was the pressure to get it right, would the powers that be actual know how to fix it?
 

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,967
Location
Surrey
Even so I know FCC operates the trains and they constantly let me down in important ways.

I commute daily between Redhill and City Thameslink and in essence I am required to use their services as its a 25 minute walk to London Bridge from my office and I've no idea how far Victoria is. There are a few through trains which I try to use but particularly in the evening I have to use East Croydon to change to Southern services.

Last week I had one train out 10 on time at City Thameslink or East Croydon/Redhill. The journey which can take 36 minutes on a direct train never actually happened in less than 1 hour.

Most of the issues are Network Rails fault but not all.

Why is the Southbound service in the Rush hour reduced from the off-peak train every 15 minutes to train every 30 minutes? Example here was Thursday night, I mistimed my walk from the office as someone stopped me on the way out, result 25 minutes standing on the platforms at City Thameslink! That's FCC decision to reduce train in the peak not network rail!!

On Tuesday the morning direct was formed of 4 coaches as a unit failed on the way to Brighton to form the service. The units are used far too intensively and any mess up there is no reserve. Result standing in a cattle truck all the way to work for 1 hour 40 minutes as the route was lost due to the effort trying to get all the passengers on at Redhill (took 10 minutes as no real alternative trains for the passengers). FCC could make proposals like Southern to buy extra stock - even if it just for Southern, South Eastern or LM to release there stock that can be converted to dual use (plenty of stock with pantograph wells!!). Or when reducing train lengths offer passengers to use the tube that morning - all reasonable routes. They don't even do that when the core is blocked - you can use Southern trains but not tubes and buses - so that's 20-25 minute walk to London Bridge then or pay for your alternative route.

FCC is managed so badly that is no wonder that passengers blame them when signals go down because everything else is rubbish.
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
Even so I know FCC operates the trains and they constantly let me down in important ways.

I commute daily between Redhill and City Thameslink and in essence I am required to use their services as its a 25 minute walk to London Bridge from my office and I've no idea how far Victoria is. There are a few through trains which I try to use but particularly in the evening I have to use East Croydon to change to Southern services.

Last week I had one train out 10 on time at City Thameslink or East Croydon/Redhill. The journey which can take 36 minutes on a direct train never actually happened in less than 1 hour.

Most of the issues are Network Rails fault but not all.

Why is the Southbound service in the Rush hour reduced from the off-peak train every 15 minutes to train every 30 minutes? Example here was Thursday night, I mistimed my walk from the office as someone stopped me on the way out, result 25 minutes standing on the platforms at City Thameslink! That's FCC decision to reduce train in the peak not network rail!!

On Tuesday the morning direct was formed of 4 coaches as a unit failed on the way to Brighton to form the service. The units are used far too intensively and any mess up there is no reserve. Result standing in a cattle truck all the way to work for 1 hour 40 minutes as the route was lost due to the effort trying to get all the passengers on at Redhill (took 10 minutes as no real alternative trains for the passengers). FCC could make proposals like Southern to buy extra stock - even if it just for Southern, South Eastern or LM to release there stock that can be converted to dual use (plenty of stock with pantograph wells!!). Or when reducing train lengths offer passengers to use the tube that morning - all reasonable routes. They don't even do that when the core is blocked - you can use Southern trains but not tubes and buses - so that's 20-25 minute walk to London Bridge then or pay for your alternative route.

FCC is managed so badly that is no wonder that passengers blame them when signals go down because everything else is rubbish.

But FCC can't justify getting new rolling stock more than it got. It's already take all the 319's back and the entire 377/5 fleet straight from new. Anything else is a no go as the new trains FCC are getting are tied up with the Thameslink Programme. Other than striping Southern of more 377/2 (and likely nicking some 350/1 from LM to back fill) there is no stock that is cleared to run a Thameslink service. In fact no dual voltage stock that can run on TL. The 375/6 are not usable. Opinion has already been looked into and rejected for a number of reasons.

You cannot use an AC or DC stock as the time penalty to reverse a unit in the Core in peak would mean you'd lose at least one other service but likely two which is pointless.

The other big problem with new rolling stock is the fact that the first new train should have been delivered to FCC by now for testing and two would have been in service by next summer. Due to the delays you've ended up with no trains order when they should be completed. This means any additional units cannot be justified for the short period sadly.

The other problem you have is the extremely limited berthing spots south of London. This is worse at the weekend where a unit failure any time after 22:00 Friday means it cannot be properly looked at until after 05:00 Monday. I can't remember the figure for how many units but there is some like 4x 377 and about 10x 319 on the south side at weekends giving very few units and no actual spares if something goes wrong. The new Three Bridges depot will sort this out and give Thameslink trains somewhere they can be looked after properly. But again it's more waiting. Least this will arrive before the new trains!

As for the less trains in peak, this more down to pathing through South London to access the Brighton Main Line. fact is we can't go via London Bridge due to the well known issues there. The route we take via Crystal Palace is packed as it is and regularly sees our trains delayed by up to 15mins daily. This will become a bigger issue once we start routing every train via Crystal Palace for five years come 2013.

Basically the line,intrastructure and set up is not right to run the railway that needed now let alone in the future. That's why they are spending better part of £6bn upgrading the route. 2018 just can't come soon enough.
 
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
287
Location
Nowhere
ooh.... my own personal stalker - I am privileged.

I am afraid that until you are in a position to annihilate the 99.998% of the planet's poulation that don't adhere to your exacting standards you are going to have to endure the great unwashed masses predilections.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bit over sensitive? Hardly a stalker - you post a comment on a public forum and I do likewise.

Stalker? Dont flatter yourself. It's called use of humour. But then I guess if you feel that not eating curry on a train is a display of exacting standards, then maybe understanding humour is also a little bit tough.
 
Last edited:

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,906
Location
Richmond, London
Bit over sensitive? Hardly a stalker - you post a comment on a public forum and I do likewise.

Stalker? Dont flatter yourself. It's called use of hunour. But then I guess if you feel that not eating curry on a train is a display of exacting standards, then maybe understanding humour is also a little bit tough.

Alternatively it could be argued that you have too much time on your hands.
 
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
287
Location
Nowhere
Alternatively it could be argued that you have too much time on your hands.

Yes, typing two lines took me such a long time. Bit like everyone that posts here. That's another day taken up with this one.

If anyone's actually interested, this too is meant as a joke. Or have we all suddenly got hyper sensitive??!
 

Mutant Lemming

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
3,191
Location
London
Yes, typing two lines took me such a long time. Bit like everyone that posts here. That's another day taken up with this one.

If anyone's actually interested, this too is meant as a joke. Or have we all suddenly got hyper sensitive??!

er... the point was made on the original thread..humourous and otherwise though you seem to deem it necessary to continue your brand of 'humour' on unrelated posts hence the 'stalker' tag.
 
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
287
Location
Nowhere
er... the point was made on the original thread..humourous and otherwise though you seem to deem it necessary to continue your brand of 'humour' on unrelated posts hence the 'stalker' tag.

Necesarry? No. Winding you up? Clearly. :D

You've made my day. I dont think I'd ever regard my self as having a "brand of humour". Methinks you are taking things a tad too seriously.
 
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
287
Location
Nowhere
One can only assume you've had a very dull Sunday?

Slightly dull, but brightened up by people that take themselves way too seriously.

I use quite a few forums and this is the only one that has such a "handbags at dawn" feel to it. I was slightly perturbed at first, but now simply feel amused that a few contributors are so sensitive. The majority of comments are well informed and a pleasure to read but some folk could pick a fight in an empty room. :roll:

I'll continue to post comments about rail, trains and other transport issues that interest me (and hopefully others too - isnt that the purpose of the forum?), but if my well intentioned comments set you off on some kind of frenzy, then meant respectfully you might need to consider relaxing a little. If you get so excited about a joky comment made about an earlier post then as young people are apt to say, "just chillax"!!
 
Last edited:

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,906
Location
Richmond, London
Slightly dull, but brightened up by people that take themselves way too seriously.

I use quite a few forums and this is the only one that has such a "handbags at dawn" feel to it. I was slightly perturbed at first, but now simply feel amused that a few contributors are so sensitive. The majority of comments are well informed and a pleasure to read but some folk could pick a fight in an emopty room. :roll:

I'll continue to post comments about rail, trains and other transport issues that interest me (and hopefully others too - isnt that the purpose of the forum?), but if my well intentioned comments set you off on some kind of frenzy, then meant respectfully you might need to consider relaxing a little. If you get so excited about a joky comment made about an earlier post then as young people are apt to say, "just chillax"!!

But as you stated earlier some of your comments are not so well intentioned. This forum is great for discovering stuff about the railway (given that you and I are both commuters) so why try wreck things by winding people up?
 
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
287
Location
Nowhere
But as you stated earlier some of your comments are not so well intentioned. This forum is great for discovering stuff about the railway (given that you and I are both commuters) so why try wreck things by winding people up?

Not sure why anyone would think that my comments aren't well intentioned or that I'm somehow trying to wind anyone up. Railway-wise, I find it amusing/odd/worthy of comment that a full takeaway curry is eaten on a train. Accepting that not everyone is alike, I've passed comment on something that I believe many people would find funny, but I sincerely hope and believe I have fallen far short of trying to wreck things.

Feel free to read my other posts - I read more than I post - and you'll hopefully find them to be (much like your own) of interest with the occassional piece of humour. They are all I hope in the spirit of our shared interest, and in reality what forums are all about.

Storm in a teacup is my thought. But if people are genuinely that sensitive, I'll never ever ever pass comment on anything MutantLemming posts again. Promise.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top