FCC Super Off Peak Promotion

[stut]

From the 14th Aug to the 2nd Sep, FCC are selling Super Off Peak returns and travelcards during the week too. Great!

If you can get them. Thing is, nobody has bothered to update the ticket machines (at my local station, at least). The office is unattended for half the day, and often during opening hours too, if the sole employee there is needed elsewhere or taking a (fully deserved, entitled to) break. And when they're there, you need to ask for it specifically.

Am I alone in finding this a bit cheeky? Sure, you can book it online a couple of hours before going, but these are walk-up fares on short journeys, and the promotional material states that you can buy it at the station...

 

[philjo]

I was going into London the other day after work but the station ticket office was closed. The ticket machines didn't show the super off-peak returns so had to get an off-peak return instead.
I am intending to write to FCC customer services & ask for a refund for the difference between the off-peak & super off-peak prices.

 

[radamfi]

If you can get them. Thing is, nobody has bothered to update the ticket machines (at my local station, at least). The office is unattended for half the day, and often during opening hours too, if the sole employee there is needed elsewhere or taking a (fully deserved, entitled to) break. And when they're there, you need to ask for it specifically.

Is that at a FCC run ticket office? At Three Bridges, run by Southern, you can't even get it from the machine on weekends. It only offers FCC only Off Peak Travelcards, not Super Off Peak. If you buy it online and pick it up then the ticket doesn't work in barriers anywhere on National Rail in London, only in Tube barriers.

 

[stut]

Yes, an entirely FCC run station on the GN route.

 

[yorkie]

I think you can pay to a station en route up to the value of your fare and get ir excessesd / exchanged in cases where the ticket you want is unavailable?

 

[b0b]

I think you can pay to a station en route up to the value of your fare and get ir excessesd / exchanged in cases where the ticket you want is unavailable?

that's really dangerous advice in a PF area....

 

[MikeWh]

that's really dangerous advice in a PF area....

Why?

If you cannot buy the ticket (office shut, machine won't issue it) then there is no way that a PF can be justified. By buying a ticket to as close a value as the one you want you are doing all you can.

 

[OwlMan]

that's really dangerous advice in a PF area....

No, that is what the National Rail Conditions of Carriage say
3

. Where the full range of tickets is not available
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. Then you must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy
an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel.

 

[barrykas]

Why?

If you cannot buy the ticket (office shut, machine won't issue it) then there is no way that a PF can be justified. By buying a ticket to as close a value as the one you want you are doing all you can.

Indeed. Condition 3 of the National Conditions of Carriage would apply:

3. Where the full range of tickets is not available

If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. Then you must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel.

"As soon as is reasonably practicable" isn't defined (at least not in the NCoC), but the wording on a Permit to Travel states that it should be exchanged within two hours. (Though what you're supposed to do if your journey takes longer than two hours and there's no on train check isn't specified either!)

In this particular example, however, I'd suggest that "as soon as is reasonably practicable" would be wherever you alight from the FCC train.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[yorkie]

that's really dangerous advice in a PF area....

I wasn't actually giving advice, I was on my mobile at the time and unable to verify, hence why I said "I think" and used a question mark, "?", at the end of my post. I am pleased that my memory was correct, as others have confirmed this is indeed the case.

However, you disagree, why?

 

[stut]

I may try this, but I'm not entirely confident, as more than one FCC RPI has recently tried to PF me for trying to use the return portion an Off-Peak (NOT Day) Return on the 1714 or 1840 out of King's Cross (wrong on two counts!)

 

[t0ffeeman]

A ticket check on the 1840. Surely not!

 

[Dewedin]

It only offers FCC only Off Peak Travelcards, not Super Off Peak. If you buy it online and pick it up then the ticket doesn't work in barriers anywhere on National Rail in London, only in Tube barriers.

I had this problem while in London recently with an NXEA Super Off-Peak Travelcard, it wouldn't operate any National Rail barriers apart from Liverpool Street, which quickly became irritating.

 

[yorkie]

I may try this, but I'm not entirely confident, as more than one FCC RPI has recently tried to PF me for trying to use the return portion an Off-Peak (NOT Day) Return on the 1714 or 1840 out of King's Cross (wrong on two counts!)

I hope you got their name, and reported them? It is also worth reporting FCC to the ORR if this continues.

As you don't state where your ticket was to/from I cannot confirm the validity of it. However, even if the ticket was not valid at that time (which, for a return portion of an Off Peak ticket, it is highly likely that it was valid) a PF cannot be issued for that reason!

Some FCC RPIs really do need a good ticking off. Their behaviour is totally unacceptable. If FCC are not prepared to deal with the problem, the ORR should be alerted and FCC should have their license to operate a PF scheme revoked.

 

[stut]

More on the 1714, I must admit. The 1840 (my old commute) seems to have had its yearly inspection in the last couple of weeks. It's always fun to watch everybody get their briefcases down to search for their gold cards...

In this case, it's slightly obscure I admit, but OP day tickets are restricted between 1630 and 1900, but OP non-day tickets only between 1730 and 1830. The timetable is even colour coded accordingly.

I have emailed FCC, as always, and got the usual response of "we will investigate, but you will appreciate any action will remain confidential".

Believe me, though, I am a master of severe yet polite admonishment if somebody behaves arrogantly or aggressively (and not merely mistakenly) towards me. Comes from living with a teacher...

 

[yorkie]

Some Off Peak rtn portions will be valid at any time from King's Cross. e.g. London terminals to Peterborough,

I have emailed FCC, as always, and got the usual response of "we will investigate, but you will appreciate any action will remain confidential".

I would email them back and say "If I am not satisfied that action taken is appropriate, and am not given assurances that there will be no further attempts to issue Penalty Fares incorrectly, then I will be reporting the matter to the ORR, who you will be aware, have the powers to suspend your Penalty Fare scheme."

Given your experiences, and jonmorris0844's experiences, I believe there is evidence that FCC should be investigated and their PF scheme should be suspended if they continue to act incorrectly.

The Penalty Fare scheme site has also highlighted many concerns regarding FCC's PF scheme.

 

[jon0844]

I may try this, but I'm not entirely confident, as more than one FCC RPI has recently tried to PF me for trying to use the return portion an Off-Peak (NOT Day) Return on the 1714 or 1840 out of King's Cross (wrong on two counts!)

FCC can't issue PFs to anyone using an off-peak ticket in the evening peak. They can only charge an excess.

 

[yorkie]

There are numerous reports of FCC revenue protection staff acting incorrectly. ORR need to be informed. I believe FCC should have their PF scheme suspended until all concerns are properly addressed, reassurances and apologies are made, and safeguards and checks are in place to ensure the rules are being adhered to.

 

[PTF62]

FCC can't issue PFs to anyone using an off-peak ticket in the evening peak. They can only charge an excess.

They may not be liable to a PF, but I am aware of a certain FCC RPI that routinely reports people in these circumstances for prosecution for fare evasion.