FCC Prosecution...please please help

[blazintec]

hey guys, im an 18 year old whos just been hit with one of FCC's intention to prosecute letters and I am extremely distressed.

I arrived at kings cross with a return travel card at 5:12am (To make it clear i was INSIDE kings cross station, not on the side of the barriers of arrival after taking a train; I had taken no train at this point). I gave my ticket to the RPO to which he told me my ticket expired at 4:30am and I'd have to buy a new one. I told him I had no money and no way of getting home and asked if there was anyway I could pay later. He said okay, OPENED the barriers, let me through, took my details down, and I was on my way and took the train home. about 4 weeks later I get a letter through the post saying they intend to prosecute me, i was extremely shocked and distressed after recieving this as the prospect of getting a criminal record for something I feel I didnt even do wrong truly scares me, this could ruin my university prospects.

I really dont know what to do. Im going to write to them explaining but from what ive read it seems they dont listen to what anyone writes down anyway. I have no idea what to do, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I had absolutely zero intent of avoiding to pay my fare. i was LET THROUGH by the RPO and got on the train AFTER my details were taken. any advice would be greatly appreciated..i feel there has been a huge injustice , ive never once avoided a train fare in my life =/

 

[bb21]

Hi, did he give you any paperwork on the day? Also did you sign anything?

Just to get some context, were you on the way back from a night out?

 

[blazintec]

Hi, did he give you any paperwork on the day? Also did you sign anything?

Just to get some context, were you on the way back from a night out?

No he didnt give me any paper work he just took my details. Yes i was on my way back from a night out but I was not intoxicated, or barely anyway. I was just wondering, surely they can not take me to court over an RPO letting me through the barriers to take the train after agreeing i can pay at a later date? =/

 

[34D]

Woah. If you are being 100% truthful, this is truly shocking.

I do wonder though whether they have made a mistake.

I would be inclined to reply stating the full facts as above, and enclosing a cheque for the relevant single fare (please advise your home station and we will advise the cost) endorsed full and final settlement?

 

[Simon11]

No he didnt give me any paper work he just took my details. Yes i was on my way back from a night out but I was not intoxicated, or barely anyway. I was just wondering, surely they can not take me to court over an RPO letting me through the barriers to take the train after agreeing i can pay at a later date? =/

Just pay the fine and move on.

The RPI should have been clearer about what was going on, but what options did you have? From his view, he knows that anyone like yourself without any money is going to jump on the train as soon as he turns his back.

What was the reason for having no money?

Thinking about it futher, after getting home. Did you get back to the station on the same day to pay for a ticket and have you kept this ticket as evidence? If you haven't purchased a ticket, then would you pay at a later date as said above?

 

[34D]

Just pay the fine and move on.

The RPI should have been clearer about what was going on, but what options did you have? From his view, he knows that anyone like yourself without any money is going to jump on the train as soon as he turns his back.

What was the reason for having no money?

Thinking about it futher, after getting home. Did you get back to the station on the same day to pay for a ticket and have you kept this ticket as evidence? If you haven't purchased a ticket, then would you pay at a later date as said above?

Read the post. The OP asked what to do. He was told to give his name and address to receive a bill through the post. What we on this forum know as a UPFN.

His other options included a taxi, family lift, etc etc.

 

[cuccir]

You need to think carefully about what happened and write it down. Stick to a factual account - try to remember everything that was said and where it happened. In particular, try and think if there was anything that could have been a misunderstanding between yourself and the RPO.

One particular question comes to mind - did the RPO ask you what you would have done if he hadn't stopped you, and how did you reply?

The post by Simon11 is indicative that people are going to be sceptical and make presumptions. This may include FCC's prosecution department. Therefore you'll need to be confident in what you remember, and clear in how you express it.

However, if the situation is as straight forward as you've expressed, then this is very troubling. 34D's response is good advice I think in this instance. If you think, on the other hand, that you might have misunderstood or be remembering anything incorrectly, then it would probably be better to write apologizing, offering to pay the full fare and administrative costs.

 

[island]

Leave out the administrative costs. If everything happened as described, then payment of the full single fare should put an end to the matter as the passenger was given permission to travel without a ticket.

I am not sure why the OP should feel his/her "university prospects" could be "ruined" by a criminal record, but as he/she does not appear to have committed any sort of offence, this should not be a worry.

 

[jon0844]

Even if you might have travelled with an expired ticket had nobody been there, the fact is you were stopped (I assume) by the gates and went to find a member of staff - who then let you in having already established your ticket had expired.

It's downright cheeky to start asking questions that would normally be asked ahead of a prosecution, such as if you had any money to pay and (as yet unestablished) if you were asked if you'd have travelled if not stopped.

However, I've seen it before where someone who didn't have a ticket yet asked an RPI already on the train (standing by the doors) if they could get a ticket on the train, was invited on, and as soon as the doors shut was told that tickets needed to be purchased before travel - and given a PF. This was also FCC.

In cases like this, I do think that a letter/email to FCC (and maybe a Tweet to @FirstCC) can sometimes get things resolved, as in someone might step in and stop things proceeding any further.

Given it was four weeks ago, I don't know if CCTV footage will still be available - but the gatelines are all covered. As such, it would be easy to establish that you were stopped (by the gates), spoken to and then let in. At the very least, the member of staff would then be asked why they'd let someone through and effectively given permission to travel.

Like said above, without the funds to buy a new ticket, and having approached staff before travel, I'd be expecting to be able to pay later having given all the required information, ID etc.. not get a letter suggesting possible prosecution.

Hopefully FCC will realise it wouldn't look good should it go to court, and will drop it and suggest it was just an administrative error and accept the offer of the payment for the required fare (which the OP does still owe)

 

[maniacmartin]

The sad thing is it is very unlikely that you have any proof that the RPI gave permission to board and pay the fare at a later date. One avenue you might wish to pursue is to ask to see a copy of the RPI's notes. Another forum member may be able to advise whether they have the time that the report was written? If they do, this time would be before the train departed, which would add a lot of credit to your defence

 

[blazintec]

Even if you might have travelled with an expired ticket had nobody been there, the fact is you were stopped (I assume) by the gates and went to find a member of staff - who then let you in having already established your ticket had expired.

It's downright cheeky to start asking questions that would normally be asked ahead of a prosecution, such as if you had any money to pay and (as yet unestablished) if you were asked if you'd have travelled if not stopped.

However, I've seen it before where someone who didn't have a ticket yet asked an RPI already on the train (standing by the doors) if they could get a ticket on the train, was invited on, and as soon as the doors shut was told that tickets needed to be purchased before travel - and given a PF. This was also FCC.

In cases like this, I do think that a letter/email to FCC (and maybe a Tweet to @FirstCC) can sometimes get things resolved, as in someone might step in and stop things proceeding any further.

Given it was four weeks ago, I don't know if CCTV footage will still be available - but the gatelines are all covered. As such, it would be easy to establish that you were stopped (by the gates), spoken to and then let in. At the very least, the member of staff would then be asked why they'd let someone through and effectively given permission to travel.

Like said above, without the funds to buy a new ticket, and having approached staff before travel, I'd be expecting to be able to pay later having given all the required information, ID etc.. not get a letter suggesting possible prosecution.

Hopefully FCC will realise it wouldn't look good should it go to court, and will drop it and suggest it was just an administrative error and accept the offer of the payment for the required fare (which the OP does still owe)

Thank you all for your replies. I know I still ow the payment; I had absolutely ZERO intent of avoiding to pay my fare. To my knowledge I was simply waiting for the invoice to come through the post, which to my surprise was instead a prosecution letter. I didnt even put my ticket through the machine first, I handed it to the RPO as I genuinely thought it was valid (and I wasnt trying to avoid a fare by hoping it still worked in the machine anyway).

I would like to ask, what are the chances of me being prosecuted and given a criminal record should they decide to take this to court? =/ And how badly would this effect employment prospects/uni prospects? I know I am not guilty but Im just preparing myself for the worst case scenario. Genuinely been losing sleep over this. Im going to try everything before it gets to that point though, such as my account put forward in a diplomatic way+the offer to pay the fare (and any admin costs) as initially agreed with the RPO. If this doesnt work then would my best approach be to try and reach an OOC settlement?

I honestly did not know that simply showing an RPO an invalid ticket BEFORE travel on the other side of the barriers means you are liable to being tried as a criminal. I genuinely believe that to be absolutely disgusting and FCC have gone way to far. Regardless of how this turns out ill most certainly be writing to my MP and local papers as even the receipt of such a threatening letter for what I believe to be doing nothing wrong is extremely distressing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The sad thing is it is very unlikely that you have any proof that the RPI gave permission to board and pay the fare at a later date. One avenue you might wish to pursue is to ask to see a copy of the RPI's notes. Another forum member may be able to advise whether they have the time that the report was written? If they do, this time would be before the train departed, which would add a lot of credit to your defence

The RPI opened the barriers for me and let me through, after taking my details. Would this not be shown on CCTV? =/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You need to think carefully about what happened and write it down. Stick to a factual account - try to remember everything that was said and where it happened. In particular, try and think if there was anything that could have been a misunderstanding between yourself and the RPO.

One particular question comes to mind - did the RPO ask you what you would have done if he hadn't stopped you, and how did you reply?

The post by Simon11 is indicative that people are going to be sceptical and make presumptions. This may include FCC's prosecution department. Therefore you'll need to be confident in what you remember, and clear in how you express it.

However, if the situation is as straight forward as you've expressed, then this is very troubling. 34D's response is good advice I think in this instance. If you think, on the other hand, that you might have misunderstood or be remembering anything incorrectly, then it would probably be better to write apologizing, offering to pay the full fare and administrative costs.

No he didn't. I just pleaded with him and he opened the barriers, said i could pay at a later date, took my details (I received no receipt or anything of the sort), I thanked him profusely and I was on my way. I just can't understand why this has happend, I've done nothing wrong =/

 

[maniacmartin]

That's assuming the CCTV hasn't been deleted by now...

 

[blazintec]

That's assuming the CCTV hasn't been deleted by now...

So basically, I'm screwed regardless? Can you tell me what you think the chances are of me being found guilty+given a criminal record if they take it to court? This just feels surreal

 

[jon0844]

The whole thing would have been seen by at least one camera, but I am not sure how long the footage is kept (28 days?) so obtaining it now might be tricky as the process can be slow.

When I was assaulted, BTP managed to mess up and fail to get the footage in that time - and that was when I reported the assault the very same night it happened. It was a good two weeks before BTP even contacted me to get a statement, and that was more 'serious' than a fare related issue. After getting more details, the officer handling my case must have disappeared because the next thing I heard was a month or two later saying they couldn't get the CCTV footage and so wouldn't be taking things any further (a decision I suspect they took when I first made my statement).

Suffice to say, I don't have that much faith in you getting footage - but it's certainly worth trying. Other posters will hopefully give advice on how to do this as you'll need to speak to the right people, as FCC or the company handling the potential prosecution presumably has little incentive to get this footage and might be quite happy to let the data disappear!

Bear in mind, the footage in itself only proves you were there at the time you said, and that you approached staff, and were let in. It won't record what was said etc, but I'm sure having it (or saying you're getting it) would make FCC change its mind anyway.

Forget about it going to court or getting a criminal record though. I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I can say 99.99999999% (add a few more 9's if you so wish) because they'll want to get all the money for itself - so getting £80-100 from you directly is better than getting it via a court, where it won't get most of that. Therefore, they'll seek an out of court settlement that means they keep everything you pay.

The other reason I'm so sure it wouldn't go to court is that FCC surely won't be sure of success here (as long as the facts are as stated on here and there isn't anything that has been missed out). Of course, you'll need to now give a detailed statement that will remove any doubt and have them drop things.

It's important you mention that if you hadn't been allowed through and asked to give details, to let you pay a bill later, you wouldn't have travelled. You'd have sought to call a mate/family to pick you up, arrange a taxi to take you home and pay with money you had at home, or whatever.

That is of course assuming that's true and you wouldn't have simply travelled anyway and left the station at the other end!

To summarise; if you don't wish to email FCC to see if they can step in and stop the prosecution, make a full and honest statement and include a cheque for the required payment (find out what this should have been). This then makes it pretty easy for the prosecution to be dropped and concluded there and then.

Should they decide to proceed regardless, the next thing they'll do will be come up with a figure (possibly three figures) to settle the matter and take no further action. At such point, I'd advise you come back for more information.

Forget about, and stop worrying about, court action or a criminal record for the time being. That's waaaaay off and absolutely not guaranteed, unless you simply ignored the problem and didn't reply, wrote something incriminating in your statement, or have omitted anything important from what you've written on here.

 

[pjnathanail]

Even if what the OP has said is true, and I have no reason to say otherwise, surely an offence was still committed under Section 5 of regulation of railways act 1989

(3)If any person—
(a)Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(b)Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(c)Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address,he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F6level 2 on the standard scale][F2[F7level 3 on the standard scale]], or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding [F6level 2 on the standard scale][F2[F7level 3 on the standard scale]], or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [F8three months].

Whilst this may be harsh, by trying to use an invalid ticket I believe an offence has been committed. The RPI probably still didn't act in the best way possible, but to threaten to go to the papers IMO is wrong given the above.

 

[martybabes]

The OP thought he had a valid ticket, so there was no intent. And if you read the requirements of the offence, and read them conjunctively (as required), a not guilty verdict should be the outcome.

 

[blazintec]

Even if what the OP has said is true, and I have no reason to say otherwise, surely an offence was still committed under Section 5 of regulation of railways act 1989



Whilst this may be harsh, by trying to use an invalid ticket I believe an offence has been committed. The RPI probably still didn't act in the best way possible, but to threaten to go to the papers IMO is wrong given the above.

Ok well this has got me really worried. I had no idea the ticket was invalid, I genuinely believed I could use it till 6am. I handed it to the RPI, before travel, behind the barriers. Does this genuinely count as me trying to avoid paying my fare? =/

So if before travel, lets say someone handed the RPI the wrong ticket by mistake, behind the barriers. they are liable to face prosecution and following that a criminal record? So anytime a ticket is put in a machine and it beeps, on the inside of the station, the person who put that ticket in by doing so is committing a criminal offence? I'm sorry but I simply have trouble believing that...but if that's the case I am genuinely speechless

 

[maniacmartin]

By 'behind the barriers', you mean on the ticket office side and not the platform side?

 

[blazintec]

By 'behind the barriers', you mean on the ticket office side and not the platform side?

Yes exactly

 

[pjnathanail]

Ok well this has got me really worried. I had no idea the ticket was invalid, I genuinely believed I could use it till 6am. I handed it to the RPI, before travel, behind the barriers. Does this genuinely count as me trying to avoid paying my fare? =/

So if before travel, lets say someone handed the RPI the wrong ticket by mistake, behind the barriers. they are liable to face prosecution and following that a criminal record? So anytime a ticket is put in a machine and it beeps, on the inside of the station, the person who put that ticket in by doing so is committing a criminal offence? I'm sorry but I simply have trouble believing that...but if that's the case I am genuinely speechless

Yes, but as the ticket was invalid, had you not been stopped you would have travelled on an invalid ticket. The fact you didn't know shouldn't make a difference.

If the person hands over the wrong ticket, is corrected, and then hands over a different ticket that is fine. Clearly that is a minor error, easily correctable.

In your case however, you did not hand over the wrong ticket, you handed over the only ticket you had, which had become invalid.

So no, the problem is not having the machine beep, the problem is travelling or attempting to travel with an invalid ticket. This problem would not occur in your scenario.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, it's fair to say that IF the OP had been presented with open barriers, he probably would have travelled and not paid extra at the other end. Given the fact he thought it was valid until 6am (for whatever reason).

I can't see there being intent, however. It would either attract a penalty fare or a byelaw 18 offence for not showing a valid ticket.. certainly not a fraud charge that could lead to a criminal record.

But when you speak to someone before travel, I'd expect the option to pay for the necessary ticket later to be an option and it would be particularly harsh not to offer this if someone thought their ticket was valid and had no more money on them there and then.

At this time in the morning, going against the flow, and having been on such trains myself over the years, the train would be mostly empty and those that were on it would likely be sprawled out on the seats asleep. I'm sure another common problem is people going beyond their validity because they didn't wake up in time - so I wonder if RPIs consider these people fair game then too?

 

[blazintec]

Yes, but as the ticket was invalid, had you not been stopped you would have travelled on an invalid ticket. The fact you didn't know shouldn't make a difference.

If the person hands over the wrong ticket, is corrected, and then hands over a different ticket that is fine. Clearly that is a minor error, easily correctable.

In your case however, you did not hand over the wrong ticket, you handed over the only ticket you had, which had become invalid.

So no, the problem is not having the machine beep, the problem is travelling or attempting to travel with an invalid ticket. This problem would not occur in your scenario.

Yes. I would have traveled. But fortunately enough, they were there; It's not like I was hoping the barriers were open, and knew my ticket was invalid. Or upon seeing them I simply wouldn't have handed them my ticket, and found another way of getting home/somewhere to stay. Therefore surely absolutely zero intent of avoiding the fare can be shown. If I had got on the train and then been caught and said this, they could easily brand it as a case of 'I'm not sorry, I'm sorry i got caught'. However before I was even travelling, before i was even on the other side of the barriers, I showed them my ticket. Is this not conclusive proof that I genuinely did not have an intent of travelling with an invalid ticket?

The only reason I traveled was because I had authorization from an RPI, who opened the barriers for me thus allowing me to get on the train after taking my details.

 

[bb21]

The reason I asked whether there was paperwork handed over was to figure out whether you were issued with a UPFN (Unpaid Fare Notice). Since you did not receive any, it would appear not. If I were in that type of situation, alarm bells would start ringing instantly, but how many of the general public would know it?

It worries me sometimes that much of the general public can be under the impression that they would be issued a UPFN (or some other bill for the fare) which would be posted to them later. That is a dangerous assumption to make as I have never known a case of it not being handed over to the passenger on the spot. Could there have been misleading actions from staff from time to time?

The reason I asked whether you were on a night out was not to see whether you were intoxicated. A person on a night out would be fairly easy to identify at 5am, and it is likely that it was down to a genuine mistake. Why discretion was not shown is anyone's guess.

But then again FCC are notorious for going down the prosecution route despite it being against industrial standards since they realised that it was far more profitable than any of the other mechanisms by getting out-of-court settlements from people.

The sad thing is it is very unlikely that you have any proof that the RPI gave permission to board and pay the fare at a later date. One avenue you might wish to pursue is to ask to see a copy of the RPI's notes. Another forum member may be able to advise whether they have the time that the report was written? If they do, this time would be before the train departed, which would add a lot of credit to your defence

That is exactly my worry. Proving that you were given permission could be difficult.

Even if what the OP has said is true, and I have no reason to say otherwise, surely an offence was still committed under Section 5 of regulation of railways act 1989

Whilst this may be harsh, by trying to use an invalid ticket I believe an offence has been committed. The RPI probably still didn't act in the best way possible, but to threaten to go to the papers IMO is wrong given the above.

I do not agree I am afraid. I can't see how intent could be established if what the OP claimed were true. There is no action from his part that could be interpreted as constituting intent, if he genuinely believed that his ticket was valid till 6am say. (Why he would think so I wouldn't know.) What you have said is pure speculation rather than being based on facts.

 

[blazintec]

The reason I asked whether there was paperwork handed over was to figure out whether you were issued with a UPFN (Unpaid Fare Notice). Since you did not receive any, it would appear not. If I were in that type of situation, alarm bells would start ringing instantly, but how many of the general public would know it?

It worries me sometimes that much of the general public can be under the impression that they would be issued a UPFN (or some other bill for the fare) which would be posted to them later. That is a dangerous assumption to make as I have never known a case of it not being handed over to the passenger on the spot. Could there have been misleading actions from staff from time to time?

The reason I asked whether you were on a night out was not to see whether you were intoxicated. A person on a night out would be fairly easy to identify at 5am, and it is likely that it was down to a genuine mistake. Why discretion was not shown is anyone's guess.

But then again FCC are notorious for going down the prosecution route despite it being against industrial standards since they realised that it was far more profitable than any of the other mechanisms by getting out-of-court settlements from people.



That is exactly my worry. Proving that you were given permission could be difficult.



I do not agree I am afraid. I can't see how intent could be established if what the OP claimed were true. There is no action from his part that could be interpreted as constituting intent, if he genuinely believed that his ticket was valid till 6am say. (Why he would think so I wouldn't know.) What you have said is pure speculation rather than being based on facts.

I thought it was 6am because my friend had told me during that night. I have never got the train at that time before and I am at fault for not double checking, but he seemed so sure. It was a genuine honest mistake.

Would the fact that the RPI opened the barriers for me and let me through not act as evidence? This can be seen on CCTV....

If this were taken to court, what do you think my chances are of my innocence being proven? =/ I just can't get a criminal record for something so stupid. I did not have any intent what so ever of avoiding my fare and I have never in my life avoided paying a train fare. I'm genuinely losing sleep......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I spoke to someone from the prosecution department on the phone. She asked for the case reference number, I told her. I explained everything to her, and how I had absolutely no idea that what the RPI's were saying was 'you can go through the barriers we opened for you but if you do we are going to prosecute you', she said that court is still a long way off and told me her name, gave me her email and told me to write her and said she will look at it asap. Is this a good sign, or simply protocol?

 

[jon0844]

Thinking a bit more, if someone was aware that a return ticket was valid into the next day, it's actually not ridiculous for someone to get the actual time of the validity wrong.

Remember the FGW staff member thinking it was 2am at Reading in the recent documentary? Even staff don't always know!

While it's actually 0429, if someone wasn't 100% sure and heard a friend say it was 6am, I can see why they'd possibly believe it. Again, it proves without a shadow of a doubt that there was no intent.

 

[blazintec]

Thinking a bit more, if someone was aware that a return ticket was valid into the next day, it's actually not ridiculous for someone to get the actual time of the validity wrong.

Remember the FGW staff member thinking it was 2am at Reading in the recent documentary? Even staff don't always know!

While it's actually 0429, if someone wasn't 100% sure and heard a friend say it was 6am, I can see why they'd possibly believe it. Again, it proves without a shadow of a doubt that there was no intent.

Its funny you say that. Wanna know something very very ironic? I went to kings X to try and hand in a letter to the prosecution office the other day. I explained my story to an RPI after asking him where the prosecution office was. Hand on heart, swear on my mothers life, he told me it was 4am. Lol

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . .

So no, the problem is not having the machine beep, the problem is travelling or attempting to travel with an invalid ticket. This problem would not occur in your scenario.

But surely it does?
By moving towards the train as to board and then to travel, blazinec has fulfilled the requirements of S.5.3 (a)

Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof

Would the fact that the RPI opened the barriers for me and let me through not act as evidence? This can be seen on CCTV....

It is exceptionally unlikely that you will now be able to get hold of those images, if you do, it will probably be very expensive. In case you are thinking that the Company might consider using CCTV evidence against you (and therefore assuming that they routinely have staff on duty examining video evidence) and so presuming that it will be easy to demonstrate your circumstances, then no, they do not normally rely on CCTV evidence when investigating fare evasion.

If this were taken to court, what do you think my chances are of my innocence being proven?

Based on the evidence you have provided on here, I will estimate that you have poor prospects of contesting a claim of travelling without a valid ticket.

. . . . she said that court is still a long way off and told me her name, gave me her email and told me to write her and said she will look at it asap. Is this a good sign, or simply protocol?

It doesn't provide anything of substance.

I think you do have possibilities worth pursuing; your conversation with "someone from the prosecutions department" might help, and an honest declaration of fact along with details of the officer giving you permission to travel will also assist, but I haven't seen much in the way of evidence, evidence either way.
I advise getting a formal statement on file sooner rather than later.

The OP thought he had a valid ticket, so there was no intent. And if you read the requirements of the offence, and read them conjunctively (as required), a not guilty verdict should be the outcome.

It should. And ideally, it won't even reach a Court. But the evidence is weak, isn't it? I don't find it adequately persuasive.

 

[Parham Wood]

I would immediately write politely to the TOC enclosing only the appropriate fare for the single journey as full and final payment. Say that you believe they have made an administrative error explaining that the RPO gave you permission to travel -why would he let you on the train knowing you had an invalid ticket and you were under the impression that he took your details so that you could be invoiced for the outstanding fare. Include the facts about presenting your ticket to the RPO before you entered the platform etc..

I hope it was just an admin mistake by some admin person in the TOC and not that the RPO actually reported you for prosecution which I think would be despicable.

 

[blazintec]

But surely it does?
By moving towards the train as to board and then to travel, blazinec has fulfilled the requirements of S.5.3 (a)

It is exceptionally unlikely that you will now be able to get hold of those images, if you do, it will probably be very expensive. In case you are thinking that the Company might consider using CCTV evidence against you (and therefore assuming that they routinely have staff on duty examining video evidence) and so presuming that it will be easy to demonstrate your circumstances, then no, they do not normally rely on CCTV evidence when investigating fare evasion. Based on the evidence you have provided on here, I will estimate that you have poor prospects of contesting a claim of travelling without a valid ticket.It doesn't provide anything of substance.

I think you do have possibilities worth pursuing; your conversation with "someone from the prosecutions department" might help, and an honest declaration of fact along with details of the officer giving you permission to travel will also assist, but I haven't seen much in the way of evidence, evidence either way.
I advise getting a formal statement on file sooner rather than later.

It should. And ideally, it won't even reach a Court. But the evidence is weak, isn't it? I don't find it adequately persuasive.

1. So does moving to the train as if to board or to travel include handing your ticket to an RPI BEFORE any travel, on the side of the barriers within the station to be told your ticket is invalid? Your telling me that they can prosecute me on those grounds?

2. So them opening the barriers for me after seeing my ticket was invalid and letting me on the train is not evidence that I was travelling with authorization from an RPI?

3. What evidence do they have that I did anything other than what I said? If they didn't believe that I had permission to board after the RPI telling me I could pay at a later date, the only other alternative is that they'd genuinely think I'd be as stupid as to walk through the barriers that the RPI opened for me and board the train if I knew it would mean I was facing prosecution?

 

[martybabes]

Thinking a bit more, if someone was aware that a return ticket was valid into the next day, it's actually not ridiculous for someone to get the actual time of the validity wrong.

Remember the FGW staff member thinking it was 2am at Reading in the recent documentary? Even staff don't always know!

While it's actually 0429, if someone wasn't 100% sure and heard a friend say it was 6am, I can see why they'd possibly believe it. Again, it proves without a shadow of a doubt that there was no intent.

It is for the Prosecution to prove intent.

The OP's actions (according to his story) would appear to be pretty consistent with there being no intent. That he doesn't have a valid ticket is pretty much accepted, but intent? Nope.

If one was to ask the average passenger (the man on the Clapham Pendolino, say) "at what time does a railway ticket become invalid?" I doubt very much that he could say, honestly and accurately, that he knew. I am not sure there are many outside the industry who would be confident that they know.

The moral would seem to be: if one buys a day return ticket, it is unsafe to assume it is valid for your return journey early the following morning. If your return journey is delayed for any reason (excessive libations being just one of them), it would be prudent to ascertain the ticket is still valid for your intended journey. I wonder how many of us would have had the presence of mind to do that before now...