FCC Press release: New gatelines to be installed

[jon0844]

April 3rd: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=538

Security

In order to improve station security and to cut down on fare evasion we will be introducing ticket barriers at additional stations on the First Capital Connect network, including Finsbury Park, West Hampstead, Harpenden and Leagrave. Work on installation will start later in the year.

Any idea where they can put the gates at Finsbury Park? I've always been told it wasn't possible to put them in because of the station design.

Will it just be FCC, or with London Underground too? There are multiple exits, so to do the whole station would require more staff. If they're only put in by the FCC platforms, then surely there won't be room for enough and it will become like WGC - where the gates are simply opened during the peak periods!

I would say one thing though; gating FPK will probably make FCC a fortune. It has always been the weakest link - and indeed a problem for the Underground too.

 

[Aictos]

April 3rd: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=538

Security

In order to improve station security and to cut down on fare evasion we will be introducing ticket barriers at additional stations on the First Capital Connect network, including Finsbury Park, West Hampstead, Harpenden and Leagrave. Work on installation will start later in the year.

Any idea where they can put the gates at Finsbury Park? I've always been told it wasn't possible to put them in because of the station design.

Will it just be FCC, or with London Underground too? There are multiple exits, so to do the whole station would require more staff. If they're only put in by the FCC platforms, then surely there won't be room for enough and it will become like WGC - where the gates are simply opened during the peak periods!

I would say one thing though; gating FPK will probably make FCC a fortune. It has always been the weakest link - and indeed a problem for the Underground too.

I think and this is just me, that when the gateline does get installed that they will be at the top of the stairs for all platforms currently in use as is the case at Welwyn but as much as I like this news, I do have concerns on overcrowding as it's a nightmare in the morning peak alone.

I do hope they press on with getting Kings Cross done as well as Peterborough, although these two would come under East Coast improvements and not FCC.

Still, this is only a small part of what FCC is doing this year, indeed by September 2011 not only will these stations be gated but everyone will see the results of the improvements brought in as well as more 12 car platforms!

 

[jon0844]

With the volumes of people getting off at Finsbury Park, especially if a train is on platform 1 and 2 at the same time, it would be impossible to operate the gates. So, during the time when fare evasion could be worst, and easiest, it will be totally pointless - and FCC would then lose the revenue they get from the occasional stop downstairs.

But, I do think that could be where they put them. And a lot of people are now going to miss their train when they can't get on to the platform from downstairs (when only one gate might be working that direction) and the rushing from people changing from a KGX to MOG service, now being blocked.

The problem northbound is different, given that people are queuing to get up the stairs, not down, so they're not on the platform where the dangers might exist. Will annoy more people though if they can't cope with the flow!

 

[asylumxl]

I know alot of people are anti gateline, but in the case of Harpenden and Leagrave, I think it's a good idea. Plenty of people faredodge to Leagrave. All surrounding stations have barriers, so why shouldn't they?

 

[westcoaster]

Beacause leagrave is the dodgiest station on TL north, it was not long ago that someone was axed in the back during the day, it is located between two of the worst housing estates in the area. Anyone remember the marsh farm riots?

 

[Dolive22]

Harpenden is only a little station. I'm not sure how late or how heavily it is manned. Will there be enough staff?

In any case it is a fairly wealthy area, and you can't really get anywhere else from there very cheaply. I would have thought the biggest problem with fare evasion at Harpenden would be people economising by not buying a first class season and then still using the first class seats, which of course the barriers can't stop.

 

[dk1]

Harpenden is only a little station. I'm not sure how late or how heavily it is manned. Will there be enough staff?

In any case it is a fairly wealthy area, and you can't really get anywhere else from there very cheaply. I would have thought the biggest problem with fare evasion at Harpenden would be people economising by not buying a first class season and then still using the first class seats, which of course the barriers can't stop.

Harpenden a little station? It has 4 platforms in use & used by nearly 3 million passengers a year!!

I had relations who lived here & used to watch the half-hourly Bed-Pan 127 units coughing up fumes as they leave sometimes in 12-car formation. I would never have guessed it could be as busy as it is now. It used to be dead off-peak but a recent visit at lunchtime with 6 trains an hour each way found queues at the ticket office & BOTH coffee bars doing a steady trade with plenty of passengers waiting for trains in up & down directions. The 4-car Electrostar was full & standing on arrival. Even so revenue protection came through. Got to say that Barriers here will quickly pay for themselves. Passengers soon get used to them & have their season tickets etc ready. FCC do seem to have a nack of installing them in the smallest of spaces such as the underpass at Potters Bar.

 

[Dolive22]

Wow, you're right. I would have never quessed that many people used it. I've never used it in the morning, and haven't used it very much at all to be honest. I know when I was waiting for a cab* just outside (at maybe 9.15-9.30 pm) there seemed to be only one person at the station and he wasn't very busy.

* There were several of us, one of us was ill and there were some other reasons why we didn't take the train.

 

[asylumxl]

Harpenden is only a little station. I'm not sure how late or how heavily it is manned. Will there be enough staff?

In any case it is a fairly wealthy area, and you can't really get anywhere else from there very cheaply. I would have thought the biggest problem with fare evasion at Harpenden would be people economising by not buying a first class season and then still using the first class seats, which of course the barriers can't stop.

If it's such a rich area, what's with the estates to the south between Harpenden and St Albans?

It's a gross generalisation, and i know first hand that Harpenden has plenty of fare dodging prepubescent and pubescent chavs and scene kids.

 

[jon0844]

Plenty of affluent areas have scummy council estates next door. It's even worse now given that any new housing development must have 30-40% social housing. You get a builder making lots of nice 5-bed detached homes just yards from flats with people who couldn't give a stuff about their neighbours.

Some stations are obvious commuter stations and are packed at certain times and empty at others. Gates will catch those people who might currently jump on the train well outside London and then use their Oyster season ticket (Z1-whatever) at the other end. If caught, which might be incredibly rare, you just pay the PF without making a fuss.

But, they can't stop someone buying a ticket to the next station, or enforce people upgrading to first class. That would require gates AND onboard staff.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Finsbury Park is my local station and I use it almost daily. Finsbury Park has number of design problems.

The FCC and tube parts of the station have their own entrances. In turn, these seperate platforms do have a narrow connecting spiral staircase.
Because of the narrow passageways, Tube delays render parts of the station so crowded as to be unusable.
And to cap it all, the entire station is a general public thoroughfare.

Where will FCC install the gates? For the determind fare dodger, you can come off the FCC platforms, down the spiral steps to the tube platforms and then exit via the gateless tube part of the station.

Finsbury Park tube remains among the last gateless station. It's design, use by the public as a thoroughfare and crowds make gating a real heache.



I'd like to know exactly where FCC will install the gates. If they put them on the general entrance to the FCC part of the station

 

[jon0844]

They could work to put gates at every entrance/exit, perhaps having CCTV to monitor remote gates like places like St Albans. Problem to me would be that this is partly underground, and so there are probably far tighter Health & Safety rules. If you had a nice easy emergency button at the distant tunnel exit (is this still open?), people would presumably press it and walk out.

Or you staff every possible exit (expensive). Or you close some permanently, or have them as emergency exits only (will annoy people).

The other option is to have gates at the top of the steps for platforms 1/2, 3/4 and 5/6. But you can probably not get that many gates up there and would have to operate them like WGC where you open them at peak times, defeating the object in many respects.

I would guess the top of the stairs is most likely.

 

[Aictos]

Because of the layout of Finsbury Park, I would have though gating the main entrance would have suffice but it's that narrow set of stairs to the Victoria line which I'm not a fan of.

If LUL and NR got together, surely they could provide a more friendly route onto the LUL platforms without having to use that set of stairs.

I know it's a lot of hassle having to exit the station to use one of two LUL entrances but we all do it at Kings Cross anyway.

Which bear in mind I've only used the Victoria line once from Finsbury Park but you can access the platforms from the LUL entrances on the street level can't you?

They could gate the platforms but I rather they didn't on the grounds that congestion is terrible in the peaks.