FCC Class 313 Replacement

[prod_pep]

I'm biased because I like the design a lot, but I think 313s are more or less perfect for the Great Northern suburban runs and do their job well. The weekend service should really be 6-cars all the time, I think, unless they can improve it to the same frequency as weekday off-peak.

As others have said, the addition of a PIS system would improve things further, and bring them in line with the rest of FCC's stock. I like the idea of them staying around until they reach 50 - genuinely, given another refurbishment, there seems no reason why they couldn't reach that milestone.

In an ideal world, they could be refurbished to a 2+2 seating standard similar to the Southern 313s with panelling repainted, lighting changed and PIS installed. We'll have to see if this ever becomes realistic.

There is also the currently unused 313121 which FCC could possibly obtain if they needed it. IMHO it would be great to see the last morning 3-car service (runs from Stevenage) be improved to a 6-car with the addition to the fleet of 313121.

 

[jon0844]

The 0926 FPK to MOG (0834 from SVG) is the train I get every morning and is indeed the last 3-car service that runs in the peak! I guess that's the price I pay for enjoying the luxury of first class to get to FPK!

I asked FCC about it on their forum and they said it was the least crowded. To be fair, I've only been unable to board once and that was as I didn't fancy a squeeze so it is fine to board at Finsbury Park when so many get off, but presumably a nightmare further back up the line.

If a 313 was made 2+2 with more standing room, PIS and new lights (not that the old lights are bad, if a little old looking) then these trains are just fine. They seem pretty bullet proof with most problems coming at the power changeover, but when I imagine a brand new Bombardier train trying to do this I think I can work out what would have the highest fail rate!

 

[Aictos]

I'm biased because I like the design a lot, but I think 313s are more or less perfect for the Great Northern suburban runs and do their job well. The weekend service should really be 6-cars all the time, I think, unless they can improve it to the same frequency as weekday off-peak.

As others have said, the addition of a PIS system would improve things further, and bring them in line with the rest of FCC's stock. I like the idea of them staying around until they reach 50 - genuinely, given another refurbishment, there seems no reason why they couldn't reach that milestone.

In an ideal world, they could be refurbished to a 2+2 seating standard similar to the Southern 313s with panelling repainted, lighting changed and PIS installed. We'll have to see if this ever becomes realistic.

Agreed, a Southern type refurb internally and a Merseyrail refurb to the workings of the unit would be good, maybe even remove the passenger door controls like Merseyrail have done?

There is also the currently unused 313121 which FCC could possibly obtain if they needed it. IMHO it would be great to see the last morning 3-car service (runs from Stevenage) be improved to a 6-car with the addition to the fleet of 313121.

Not possible to do, 313121 is or will be used to test ERTMS on the Hertford Loop between just south of Langley Junction and Hertford North itself.

 

[jon0844]

One thing the 313/1's could do with is the horizontal grab rail in the vestibules. It's very hard to stand there at times because of these being missing!

313/0
313/1

 

[philjo]

Agreed, a Southern type refurb internally and a Merseyrail refurb to the workings of the unit would be good, maybe even remove the passenger door controls like Merseyrail have done?

They originally didn't have the passenger door controls. These were fitted by WAGN I think at the same time when they also put in the high back seating.
Before the door controls were installed, all doors opened at each station so when the train terminated at WGC & sat there for a while until it was time to leave going back the other way all the doors would be wide open letting the heat out so the train was freezing cold inside.
They are much better with the door controls though maybe need another set of buttons on the other side of the door.

 

[jon0844]

Were the door controls initially a lever on the door itself (like a Barcelona subway train)? Some trains still show where these were fitted.


.

 

[Aictos]

They originally didn't have the passenger door controls. These were fitted by WAGN I think at the same time when they also put in the high back seating.
Before the door controls were installed, all doors opened at each station so when the train terminated at WGC & sat there for a while until it was time to leave going back the other way all the doors would be wide open letting the heat out so the train was freezing cold inside.
They are much better with the door controls though maybe need another set of buttons on the other side of the door.

Thanks for the history lesson, still think it's better to have Merseyrail type door controls especially as the 313s are assumed by some to have the doors open automatically ala LUL services....or even seeing as some for some reason mistake a 313 for a LUL train....

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps the train could be set to open the doors automatically when the train switches to DC power? Mind you, that may confuse people too (as in when they leave Drayton Park and wonder why the doors don't open!).

 

[prod_pep]

I disagree on the door controls. They're fine as they are. I'm a regular Merseyrail user (for my sins) and would give anything for passenger door controls in the winter months. We have some long dwell times in termini as I'm sure the 313s do at Hertford and Welwyn. The ability to keep the doors shut at these times is invaluable. Merseyrail should follow Silverlink and WAGN's suit and fit door controls to their units.

 

[Aictos]

I disagree on the door controls. They're fine as they are. I'm a regular Merseyrail user (for my sins) and would give anything for passenger door controls in the winter months. We have some long dwell times in termini as I'm sure the 313s do at Hertford and Welwyn. The ability to keep the doors shut at these times is invaluable. Merseyrail should follow Silverlink and WAGN's suit and fit door controls to their units.

Actually it was BR who fitted the passenger door controls to the 313s when they introduced DOO, Not Silverlink or WAGN.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

I disagree on the door controls. They're fine as they are. I'm a regular Merseyrail user (for my sins) and would give anything for passenger door controls in the winter months. We have some long dwell times in termini as I'm sure the 313s do at Hertford and Welwyn. The ability to keep the doors shut at these times is invaluable. Merseyrail should follow Silverlink and WAGN's suit and fit door controls to their units.

I agree. I travelled on a very lightly loaded train out to West Kirby the other day and at every stop, it occurred to me what a waste of energy it was when all the doors opened. Not only is temperature change (either warming or cooling, depending upon the season) an issue, but the doors use energy, either air or electric.

 

[A0]

They originally didn't have the passenger door controls. These were fitted by WAGN I think at the same time when they also put in the high back seating.
Before the door controls were installed, all doors opened at each station so when the train terminated at WGC & sat there for a while until it was time to leave going back the other way all the doors would be wide open letting the heat out so the train was freezing cold inside.
They are much better with the door controls though maybe need another set of buttons on the other side of the door.

Not quite right.

Somebody else has posted a similar query, so to confirm.

When new the 313s had a 'magic door' control whereby the passenger pulled a handle which opened the doors. Unfortunately there were some instances of doors being opened when the train was moving, so the system was removed / disabled, the handles removed and door operation passed to the guard. If you look at photos of these units when new you can see the handles on the doors.

Button opening on the units was fitted sometime in the 90s (after DOO was introduced which was in the mid 80s when the 317s arrived on the line).

 

[prod_pep]

Actually it was BR who fitted the passenger door controls to the 313s when they introduced DOO, Not Silverlink or WAGN.

Interesting - I had always thought door controls were fitted at Wolverton when the 313s were refurbished for their respective operators.

Does anyone know a more precise date for the roll-out of passenger door controls (and DOO) on the 313s?