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FCC : Another 'worse' Title

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tbtc

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The DfT has been extremely supportive in funding the Northern hub and the large programme of electrification. Not exactly "anti - North" is it ?

Agreed - but apart from the large subsidies and the cheap fares and the 30% increase in capacity and the forthcoming electrification and the Ordsall Chord and the light rail extensions and the Todmorden curve, what have the Romans ever done for us? :lol:
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Agreed - but apart from the large subsidies and the cheap fares and the 30% increase in capacity and the forthcoming electrification and the Ordsall Chord and the light rail extensions and the Todmorden curve, what have the Romans ever done for us? :lol:

Quite - a great film that - (and glad someone else has a bit of rationale occasionally)

"Romanus eunt domum" - or whatever.

The old Gospel Oak - Barking when I had the pleasure of runnig it in the 1996 -1999 era had probably the worst DMU's in the UK (class 117's which barely managed to cover their diagrams on a good day)

I used to dream of 143's - or even a 150/1. (Happened after my days - and look at it now..!!!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So you'd be happy with 142/143's on your Hertfordshire lines?

See other comment - a half hourly 143 on the Abbey line (were it not electrified)- would beat the traffic and the 321 bus anyday.

So the answer is "yes"
 

anti-pacer

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Quite - a great film that - (and glad someone else has a bit of rationale occasionally)

"Romanus eunt domum" - or whatever.

The old Gospel Oak - Barking when I had the pleasure of runnig it in the 1996 -1999 era had probably the worst DMU's in the UK (class 117's which barely managed to cover their diagrams on a good day)

I used to dream of 143's - or even a 150/1. (Happened after my days - and look at it now..!!!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


See other comment - a half hourly 143 on the Abbey line (were it not electrified)- would beat the traffic and the 321 bus anyday.

So the answer is "yes"

The 321 bus.... hmmmm.... :-x
 

asylumxl

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See other comment - a half hourly 143 on the Abbey line (were it not electrified)- would beat the traffic and the 321 bus anyday.

So the answer is "yes"

Walking would beat the 321 bus... No seriously. I've overtaken it on foot before.

Elsewhere in the home counties on the Marston Vale line, we have the same awful 150s that have been mentioned. It isn't all rosey down here.
 

RPI

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To be honest, I think people on TL just like to complain. I am a TL commuter myself and I hear them whinge and whine endlessly on my travels.

From experience on various social media, the majority will not listen to facts either and prefer just to continue a hate campaign against First for things that aren't in their control.

Thames valley is the same, most London commuters are just serial complainers
 

Mutant Lemming

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Thames valley is the same, most London commuters are just serial complainers

Always moaning about

- overcrowding (as in never getting a seat)

- delays and cancellations (what do they expect..
trains to actually run to some semblence of a timetable ?)

- being overlooked when things go wrong
(They pay £1000's per year to be transported not mollycoddled).

If the train companies stopped coming up with serial excuses then maybe the commuters would not be complaining so much
 

ChiefPlanner

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Let's get back to FCC again - they (or whoever run it) - cannot win. Ditto Southern Region in BR days - peaks are always unpleasant with crowding etc - I have done St Albans to various London destinations for more years than I care to list. Crowding is probably worse than ever- but everything is 8 cars - some 12 cars (not enough - but that will change) - the tube runs better than ever -and certainly better than in say 1987. trains are more modern (ish) , generally cleaner (I remember the Northern line was a killer to put your arms on a window ledge - as you would get black dust + iron oxide on your sleeves) - Oyster and Goldcard give you all sorts of off peak benefits.

Trouble is - the numbers travelling grow year on year - faster than capacity can match - London had a declining population / workforce in 1981 and transport cannot exactly match the expectations of today's travellers - and they certainly did not in 1980 - oldies like me recall the Evening Standard Commuter Club and Charter which campaigned for a better journey experience.

Loading standards on SE commuter trains then were - F, F+S , BoW - which was "full -full and standing , -or "b++ms out of windows" - on a 4EPB you could get a few more in by dropping the droplight windows , squeezing and packing a few more in - such that their rears were almost out of the slam door windows , but not out of gauge...
 

Bedpan

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In relation to staffing and their attitude, FCC are so desperate to save money that staff moral is at rock bottom. Staff don't care-and why should we when the company very obviously doesn't.

People have impossible jobs-the company put as few staff on doing more than practice. Take the station dispatcher at WGC for example- he dispatches all trains on platforms 3&4. In the peak and at weekends the southbound stopper and northbound mainline stopper run within minutes of each other. If the northbound is a minute or 2 late then the dispatcher can't dispatch both it and the southbound at once so they both end up going late.

In disruption very little information is fed down to front line staff and what is often changed so what you have just told a passenger will be incorrect 5 mins later so you then look stupid when they come back up to you asking why you lied to them. It is FCCs biggest weakness but as a driver I have ended up on hold for upto 2mims during disruption trying to find out if my train is running.

With drivers the work is getting to the impractical point. There are inner suburban jobs on the GN with 5 hours in the chair, no toilet breaks, absolutely minimum 20min breaks, 5 min turn arounds combined with overcrowding and very poor dispatch equipment so trains will run late weather because the driver can't see if doors are clear, the pan takes a little while to go up/down at Drayton park or because the human being at the front needs a wee after 3 hours and so pops to the loo when changing ends which can't be done in the given 5 mins.

And I know I will get shouted down for this and I know it's a 2 way street but the attitude of staff has a lot to do with the completely moral-less passengers on the routes. Thameslink is worse but the GN can be just as bad. I have never had people being as rude to me as I have on FCC. Passengers in the past have sworn at me, made snide remarks under their breath and even personal insults about appearance etc. which is unacceptable and uncalled for. It's not my fault that the train is late or cancelled. It's also not my fault that the timetable doesn't suit you and my train dosnt stop at your station even if you have been waiting 20mins for a train. If people speak to me in the way that many do then sorry but I'm not going to be particularly helpful in my reply and I make no apology for that. If people spoke to police officers in the way they speak to us they would be arrested!

In general though FCC has a rough deal. The line and stock is taking a lot longer to 'improve' or modernise than was planned and in the meantime no one will spend money as change is just around the corner. There is no point installing PIDs and air on on 319s etc as new trains are on the way. If First lost the franchise tomorrow and someone else-even virgin-took over then absolutely nothing would change. The infrastructure and trains would still breakdown, fatalitys would still happen, there would still be occasional driver shortages, there would still be congestion and overcrowding and fares would still be as high.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, A-driver. One group of people on FCC who always seem to be doing their best are the drivers. Can't say that I've ever met an unhelpful one and as a general rule I am conscious that thy are trying to be as helpful as they can when making an announcement to their passengers, even though at times its clear that they haven't been able to find out what's going on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
After an hour I would certainly start to think of alternatives.

Is that not logical?

Well, I'd have thought that as a rule of thumb, the longer you have waited, the sooner a train is going to arrive (in Mutant Lemming's situation, where clearly trains are running up the line through and beyond his station). That is, if there is no information to the contrary.

Arriving at a station and finding that your train isn't going to turn up due to signal failure/train failure/weather/incident etc. is one thing - just one of those things that may be a bit of a nuisance but nobody's fault. To stand on a platform for two hours, and get no information about when a train may or may not be stopping at the station you want to go, is plain infuriating. Should you hang on where you are and find that another couple of hours go by, or leave and go home by an alternative, longer route only to later discover that you would have been on a train ten minutes later if only you'd waited?

A similar thing happened to me a few years back - trains were at a stand for an hour or so - fine - and then when they started to move three or four went through the station without stopping over the course of the next hour or more. We were on the platform thinking SURELY the next one will stop - but it didn't. In the end the driver of a train going in the other direction phoned through for us, and then a train did stop - aftyer we had been waiting two and a half hours. .
 

northwichcat

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Don't forget the 185 fleet and the cascaded 170 sets on TPE are pretty smart. I don't hear too much grief from Cardiff re 142 and 143 sets (in fact I was on a 143 down there yesterday and for a 20 min journey was fine !)

The 185s run the same sort of routes that the 175s run in Wales. I think a lot of people prefer 175s to 185s but in both cases they aren't long enough for some of the services they run.

The DfT has been extremely supportive in funding the Northern hub and the large programme of electrification. Not exactly "anti - North" is it ?

Electrification was a bit of an after thought though. DfT accepted that Northern, FGW and TPE needed more capacity and had issued an invitation for tender for new DMUs to be introduced by December 2012 to meet that demand, with the option of add-on orders if more capacity was needed. DfT then remembered they had approved new trains for Thameslink and there would have been a lot of usable EMUs put in to storage, so considered electrification to be more economically viable. Although, it means the fore-mentioned operators don't get the extra capacity as quickly as originally forecast.
 
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I am lucky enough to live near Cambridge, admit I only use FCC on a Saturday and have never found them to be a problem. Drivers are always helpful and proactive and have often made announcements to the passengers when needed. Time keeping is good and we have come to rely on them.
 

Boothby97

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however will be stuck with the same shoddy stock, with a few less Pacers. However, as has been mentioned before, Pacers will be with us long after 2019.

In last months issue of Rail Express, there was a story on "Class 142 Pacers to be withdrawn" as angel trains don't wish retain them beyond 2019 due to DDA modifications being required. Just Porterbrook to make a decision on the 143/144s

Although I'm not anti any franchise (but I don't commute) there are still major commuter routes in the north with modern stock. Manchester-Sheffield/Preston/Liverpool/Leeds with 185s, Sheffield-Leeds/York/Newcastle with Voyagers, Stoke-Manchester with Voyagers and Pendolinos so its not like us in the north have it that bad. Although local commuters (i.e. those that live around large towns/cities) in the north will more than likely have to put up with pacers/sprinters
 

Class2ldn

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Im just about to join fcc as a driver so this post is a little worrying I must admit. I wanted to go to swt but the fact that they work quite a few sundays wasn't really an option so in that sense fcc was perfect. I currently work for another se toc and to be fair I dont think they will be far behind fcc in passenger satisfaction
 

W230

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Thames valley is the same, most London commuters are just serial complainers
Beginning to think it's just us British in general. We do seem to like a good moan! :lol:

I currently work for another se toc and to be fair I dont think they will be far behind fcc in passenger satisfaction
Sounds like another SET > FCC transfer. ;)
 

northwichcat

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Northern haven't announced any short form trains this evening. Maybe they've tried extra hard after the bad publicity regarding the Passenger Focus survey.
 

Bald Rick

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Probably a coincidence, but the FCC RPIs were out last night with the Revenue Protection Manager (in a very sharp suit) being extremely polite to the various people with, ahem, an incorrect ticket. But gripping them in a way such that us correctly beticketed were suitably impressed.

What was most impressive was that this was at midnight, amongst a fair proportion of punters at an advanced state of refreshment.
 
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jon0844

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Probably a coincidence, but the FCC RPIs were out last night with the Revenue Protection Manager (in a very sharp suit) being extremely polite to the various people with, ahem, an incorrect ticket. But gripping them in a way such that us correctly beticketed were suitably impressed.

What was most impressive was that this was at midnight, amongst a fair proportion of punters at an advanced state of refreshment.

They do work late at night, but not often enough given how successful blocks at stations can be at midnight until 2am!

I can only assume the risk of violence is one factor.

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk HD
 

jon0844

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If many start at 5am (and they clearly do) then surely some work later? Or are they getting overtime?

It's unlikely they're volunteering to work after midnight! And they certainly do.
 

A-driver

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Well I assume they work nights since revenue often patrol the 0325 & 0410 trains from peterbourgh to London. I somehow doubt that is an early shift.
 

Fred26

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They're rostered either 'earlies' or 'lates'. I'm not saying they don't work past midnight - I know they do, I'm just saying the RPIs and their team leaders prefer day turns.
 

A-driver

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They're rostered either 'earlies' or 'lates'. I'm not saying they don't work past midnight - I know they do, I'm just saying the RPIs and their team leaders prefer day turns.

Don't we all but that dosnt alter the fact they still work 24/7.
 

ginger

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has anyone noticed that 2 of the bottom 3 franchises are run by Abellio? A lot of what people are saying about Northern can be applied to Greater Anglia.....lack of investment, filthy old trains, generally shoddy attitude towards trains etc....
 

ginger

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I generally think Greater Anglia are much better than what came before them.

that may well be but they have dropped 6% since the last NPS and are only 1% off the bottom with Abellio's sister franchise......says a lot about the management doesn't it!
 

jon0844

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As their number one fan (sarcasm), I'm not surprised you'd want to hijack this thread and get some anti GA-bashing.

You're the perfect example of someone that just has it in for a TOC and ignores the facts, like what is within their control or not.

And I say that as someone who currently has a complaint in their system, but will reserve judgement until they respond.
 

tbtc

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has anyone noticed that 2 of the bottom 3 franchises are run by Abellio? A lot of what people are saying about Northern can be applied to Greater Anglia.....lack of investment, filthy old trains, generally shoddy attitude towards trains etc....

Yes, those old trains are totally the fault of Abellio, who've been running the franchise for many weeks now - they've had plenty of time to order hundreds of new ones, it's an outrage etc etc

(removes tongue from cheek)
 

big_dirt

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They do work late at night, but not often enough given how successful blocks at stations can be at midnight until 2am!

I can only assume the risk of violence is one factor.

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk HD

I saw a guy in a decent suit, not exactly sharp, at a revenue protection exercise at Elephant during the week.

Maybe it's something new they are doing. A bit of professionalism is always welcome.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry John, I replied to your post based on the post you replied to, rather than the content of yours.

I am too lazy to rectify this.
 

ginger

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As their number one fan (sarcasm), I'm not surprised you'd want to hijack this thread and get some anti GA-bashing.

You're the perfect example of someone that just has it in for a TOC and ignores the facts, like what is within their control or not.

And I say that as someone who currently has a complaint in their system, but will reserve judgement until they respond.

hijack a thread? Behave! I was making a perfectly valid point........as the DFT consistently says "it is for the TOCs to decide on what rolling stock is appropriate"

Another very valid point which feeds into the NPS when you read them, is that it uo to the TOCs and ROSCOs to stipulate refurbs etc.....and 000s of passengers are clearly unhappy with the performance of certains TOCs in this area.....

Abellio clearly are doing something VERY wrong if all these 000s of people keep voting them at the bottom.....

but hey....just one person appears to be hijacking a thread!
 
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