FCC 321s

[Aictos]

I have it on very good authority that FCC will be running the 0621 from Peterborough using the newly acquired 321s instead of 365s.

I have also been told that they will be the refreshed ones.

Thought I share the gen,

 

[northernrailer]

The destination displays do you still enter a 3 digit destination code number?? if so can anyone take a pic of the destination code list inside the cab??

 

[A0]

I have it on very good authority that FCC will be running the 0621 from Peterborough using the newly acquired 321s instead of 365s.

I have also been told that they will be the refreshed ones.

Thought I share the gen,

Lucky passengers on the 0621 - not......

Refurbed or not, I'd far sooner travel on a 365 than a dreadful 321 any day.

 

[Daimler]

Lucky passengers on the 0621 - not......

Refurbed or not, I'd far sooner travel on a 365 than a dreadful 321 any day.

I would concur. Ghastly things - so pleased to see the back of them on the West Coast!

 

[Aictos]

I would concur. Ghastly things - so pleased to see the back of them on the West Coast!

I disagree, I quite like them as it means I get a chance of getting some different traction instead of just 317s or 365s all the time.

Plus the FCC livery looks absolutely great on it as well,

Anyway beggers can't be choosers, we needed extra seats on the ECML and the only possible way for that to happen was for FCC to get some cascaded stock which has resulted in the existing stock being used to strengthen some overcrowded services.

It was the 321s or nothing at all and I suspect the majority of passengers wouldn't have been happy to just leave the overcrowding as it was.

 

[jon0844]

I see nothing wrong with the 321s. When they have first class declassified, I'm down there like a shot - but likewise, it's nice to 'hide' at the back (the opposite end to first class) and the seats are comfortable enough either way.

Obviously, I'd have preferred a nice new train with air conditioning and other creature comforts, but these trains (when refreshed) are more than adequate at getting you from A to B. Having no train, or being squashed up, is not a nice alternative.

 

[northernrailer]

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

 

[Aictos]

I see nothing wrong with the 321s. When they have first class declassified, I'm down there like a shot - but likewise, it's nice to 'hide' at the back (the opposite end to first class) and the seats are comfortable enough either way.

Obviously, I'd have preferred a nice new train with air conditioning and other creature comforts, but these trains (when refreshed) are more than adequate at getting you from A to B. Having no train, or being squashed up, is not a nice alternative.

Thank you, it's nice to see a common view on the 321s,

 

[ungreat]

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

I am an FCC driver.Why would you want this? Just curious.

It's a five digit code for destinations on 321's,beginning with '00' on the GN route

 

[90019]

I am an FCC driver.Why would you want this? Just curious.

He seems oddly persistant :?

 

[jon0844]

Is this something to do with setting up the front/rear flip-dot displays that can be read only when you climb on the front of the train and press your face up to the glass?

I wonder if FCC will replace these at any time with LED destination displays?

 

[37401]

He seems oddly persistant :?

nah this is persistant

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

Can anyone get a picture of the destination code list that is in the cabs of the class 321 FCC units at all?

and so on

 

[djw1981]

No, persistence is time dependent........

 

[Skimble19]

Unlucky them.. 3+2 seating will be something i'm sure they will, er, enjoy.. along with lots of NSE seat covers! Having travelled on them fairly regularly lately, they aren't that bad, but, IMHO, are definitely not as comfy as a 365.

 

[jon0844]

Unless someone restarts construction of the 365s, that's all FCC will ever get! So, the 321s or something else is all they can have until the all-new fleet is built.

3+2 is not nice. I'm not sure it even helps in busy periods, but I doubt FCC would be planning to strip out and rebuild the interior - especially if they then have to add disabled toilets, CIS, CCTV etc.

 

[Skimble19]

Talking of the all-new fleet, we know what will happen to the 313s and 319s, but what about the 317s and 365s?

As for 3+2, i've found in past experience that it does makes it worse in busy periods as people don't seem keen on sitting in the middle seat next to two people they don't know (not that I blame them!), meaning there's empty seats and less space to stand, but as you say, chances of FCC stripping out and rebuilding the interior aren't exactly very high..

 

[jon0844]

What are the plans for the 313s? I thought there was a chance FCC would be keeping many trains on the GN side, especially if the TL project is curtailed in some way.

Mind you, I still think there's a chance the Moorgate section will be taken away from FCC and made part of London Overground, so perhaps they'll get a totally unique fleet?

 

[aspierail]

If you look it as a commuters point of view class 365 are a lot better as the seating layout gives them more room then a class 321 however i do like my class 321s and when they accerlerate i just love the sound of that buzz.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Talking of the all-new fleet, we know what will happen to the 313s and 319s, but what about the 317s and 365s?

As for 3+2, i've found in past experience that it does makes it worse in busy periods as people don't seem keen on sitting in the middle seat next to two people they don't know (not that I blame them!), meaning there's empty seats and less space to stand, but as you say, chances of FCC stripping out and rebuilding the interior aren't exactly very high..

313, 317 and 365 are to remain on the GN post TLP. Only new trains on the GN side post TLP are the ones going through the TL Core. And thats if the do keep the link between GN and TL.

The 313 fleet is due to be replaced in the mid 2020's. 317 will be withdrawn at the smae time I *think* and replaced with new rolling that replaces the 313. The 365 fleet is due a refurishment after the replacements of the 313's.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The 313 fleet is due to be replaced in the mid 2020's. 317 will be withdrawn at the smae time I *think* and replaced with new rolling that replaces the 313. The 365 fleet is due a refurishment after the replacements of the 313's.

Surely a typo?

 

[jon0844]

I hope it is a typo, although the 313s probably could last another 15 years or so! They'd need some form of internal refresh, beyond new seat covers and vinyl flooring though surely?

Weren't they built in around 1976? (oops, I first typed 1796 and then thought about keeping it as that!)

That would make them about 50 years old (or 229 years old with my original typo)!

 

[Skimble19]

Last I heard they were due to be replaced way before the mid 2020's, could of changed though.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Nope its no typo guys. Was in a staff briefing a few months ago. Plan is the next franchise will see the 313 and 365 refurished after the introduction of the NXEMUs at the end of this franchise. The 313 refurishment should start around 2016.

313 replacement is supposed to start with not the next franchise but the one after.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Nope its no typo guys. Was in a staff briefing a few months ago. Plan is the next franchise will see the 313 and 365 refurished after the introduction of the NXEMUs at the end of this franchise. The 313 refurishment should start around 2016.

313 replacement is supposed to start with not the next franchise but the one after.

Wow. I guess on thinking about it again, both the 313s and 317/1s are still solid, relatively comfortable and suited to their work generally. There's no reason they can't stay in traffic if they remain reliable and safe. Cosmetics and novelty aren't a reason to spend many many millions on new stock.

They will almost certainly be the oldest stick left on the rails by that point if so! I must say, FCC are obviously doing something right in their maintenance.

I guess this isn't a surprise - the spending priorities will be electrification for at least the next 10 years, and any acquisition of stock would be targetted to IEP and other electrics for newly electrified areas.

 

[jon0844]

If the 313s were given a total refit inside, with the possibility of adding air conditioning and proper CIS displays and information - I see no reason for them not to continue being used forever! I guess at some point, the metalwork will get to the point where it can't be maintained anymore - but that seems some way off yet.

Ditto the 317s.

But, I think that while FCC (as Wagn before it) have done well because of having a pretty decent fleet, there are bound to be lots of problems in 15 years time - regardless of how good the maintenance engineers are - if the trains aren't given a significant overhaul.

 

[Skimble19]

Indeed, thinking about it there is no real reason for the 313s, 317s or 321s to be replaced, they just need a good refurbishment and overhaul. If they were brought up to modern (within reason) standards internally then everyone would be happy as it would almost certainly cost a lot less to refit and overhaul a unit than replace it with a brand new one, keeping shareholders and passengers happy!

 

[jon0844]

I guess there comes a point where it could be argued that new-build will be less expensive than the cost of a total internal rebuild and many other mechanical modifications/replacements, repairs to bodywork and so on.

The problem is that when you look at all the new 'plastic' trains being built, you do begin to think that we should try and keep the Mk3 and Mk4 trains on the railway for as long as possible - no matter how many times you need to refurbish them.

By rights, when a train is approaching 50 years old, you should expect that a replacement would be significantly better in terms of technology and reliability. that just isn't the case.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

If the 313s were given a total refit inside, with the possibility of adding air conditioning and proper CIS displays and information - I see no reason for them not to continue being used forever! I guess at some point, the metalwork will get to the point where it can't be maintained anymore - but that seems some way off yet.

Ditto the 317s.

But, I think that while FCC (as Wagn before it) have done well because of having a pretty decent fleet, there are bound to be lots of problems in 15 years time - regardless of how good the maintenance engineers are - if the trains aren't given a significant overhaul.

From what I understand its a major overhaul of the 313 are planned in the new franchise with the 365's worked on by the franchise after that. Along the lines of the current 319 work.

 

[jon0844]

The 319 work is pretty minor. They look good, don't get me wrong, but when the 319s are cascaded I believe they're getting a proper refurbishment with DDA compliant toilets, air conditioning, PIS etc.

Besides the painted walls, new toilet fittings, new flooring, seat backs and a few seats removed for luggage racks - there's nothing else of significance. They still have no CCTV or PIS.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

The 319 work is pretty minor. They look good, don't get me wrong, but when the 319s are cascaded I believe they're getting a proper refurbishment with DDA compliant toilets, air conditioning, PIS etc.

Besides the painted walls, new toilet fittings, new flooring, seat backs and a few seats removed for luggage racks - there's nothing else of significance. They still have no CCTV or PIS.

Er the 319 are being rewired and work done on the bogies. CCTV and CIS are minor things.