Fatalities This Week

[swj99]

I don't really agree with that.
Certainly it wasn't talked about, and where it was you were just told to "man up" or whatever (which usually does the exact opposite). But to say that people of that generation did not get depression is a little naive I think. More likely is that many did get depression, but suffered in silence.

I don't agree with it, I'm just talking from experience of knowing him and others from his generation who I was lucky enough to get to know.
But it's true, a lot of people were (and still are) just told to cheer up, get over it, or something similar. But I also speak from experience when I say there are some people who don't acknowledge depression, and as far as they are concerned, it might as well not exist. Even though in these enlightened times, we know it definitely does.

 

[tsr]

Unfortunately, another incident, this time at Queenstown Road (Battersea), has occurred this evening. This was at around 2115hrs.

SWT and NR have apparently done a good job of minimising disruption to closing the slow line towards Windsor plus the station itself, and the incident train was reported as evacuated in an orderly fashion. Emergency services hope to clear the scene soon. Sad as it is, the swift resolution can only be a good thing, especially at such an obviously hectic time for London's public transport!

I don't want to sound controversial, but it is a really bad evening for something like this to happen!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Queenstown Rd would have been very bad news last night with a massive return traffic from Twickenham (Lady GaGa concert) + Paralympics Traffic plus a very busy Saturday night leisure traffic. Wife was there at midnight and said she had never seen such a busy station for that time of night !

 

[tsr]

Fortunately, the lines are now open, according to SWT's Twitter account. Thanks to their efforts, I imagine tens of thousands of people (including those at tonight's events) will face a much smoother journey home.

Someone would have been dreading telling that news to a Paralympics Closing Ceremony crowd...

 

[BestWestern]

Another fatality to report; Whyke Road Crossing between Barnham and Chichester. Person hit by 1C48, 20.02 London Vic to Portsmouth Harbour. Declared non-suspicious, lines expected to be open by 23.30. Buses running meantime.

 

[cjohnson]

Possible fatality at Hayes & Harlington this morning. Seems to be a very common location for this sadly

 

[D1009]

Possible fatality at Hayes & Harlington this morning. Seems to be a very common location for this sadly

Actually between Hayes and West Drayton. Main lines blocked and cancellations of Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect.

 

[jopsuk]

Brentwood on the Great Eastern this morning- lines reopened at 0740, but still major disruption till they can get trains in the right places.

 

[16CSVT2700]

Actually between Hayes and West Drayton. Main lines blocked and cancellations of Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect.

1W10 180 mullered said person at Hayes and stopped between Hayes & W.Drayton. Messy

 

[pompeyfan]

It's sad how thick and fast they have been coming in, I remember the recent ones at bedhampton and hilsea and the disruption they caused, also one of my friends did the funeral. It's sad that people think this way.

That said, did anybody else read and agree Jeremy clarksons article in the sun that got him in trouble, effectively he said it was selfish, but to minimise disruption pick up the torso and the wallet and let wildlife take care of any of the smaller bits.

I'd be interested to know if the continent are as thorough in the clean up as we are?

 

[GB]

I do agree it is selfish, but when your in that position you don't think like that. I do think we have a duty of care for those left behind and respectful of the remains thus I do not agree that it should be left for nature to clean up.

 

[dk1]

Brentwood on the Great Eastern this morning- lines reopened at 0740, but still major disruption till they can get trains in the right places.

Not a fatality in the end. Person ran away but was then arrested.

 

[GB]

Was one on the Sudbury branch though.

 

[dk1]

Was one on the Sudbury branch though.

Unfortunatley so. Between Bures & Sudbury from what i am told. Line re-opened in time for evening peak.

 

[Bald Rick]

In the last month we have had 33 fatalities, plus a further 11 incidents that have been treated as such, usually with severe injuries the result. As a subset of these, in the last 7 days there have been 15, plus a further 3 non-fatal, including this morning's incident at Brentwood where the attemptee disappeared under the train, then reappeared, went home and was apparently later nicked.

 

[eastdyke]

Suicides in 2010/11 are reported as 208.
Taken from:

Rail Trends, Great Britain 2010/11
Rail Statistics Factsheet No. 1 (DfT)

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/statistics/series/rail/110805_Rail_Factsheet.pdf

"Safety
Rail has one of the lowest passenger casualty rates of any mode of transport. In 2010/11, 8 passengers and 1 railway worker were killed on the rail network, none of them in train accidents. In total there were 248 fatalities on the rail network, 208 (84 per cent) of which were suicides and 27 (11 per cent) trespassers. There were also 4 pedestrians killed at level crossings."

 

[BestWestern]

Hmm, interesting figures. Any thoughts on the eight pax who passed on? I'm assuming we're talking passengers on trains, in which case I would guess at medical occurrences etc?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the last month we have had 33 fatalities, plus a further 11 incidents that have been treated as such, usually with severe injuries the result. As a subset of these, in the last 7 days there have been 15, plus a further 3 non-fatal, including this morning's incident at Brentwood where the attemptee disappeared under the train, then reappeared, went home and was apparently later nicked.

Wow, that is quite incredible; 15 and three triers in one week. Very sad

The Brentwood incident sounds very bizarre indeed! So said person attempted but somehow escaped presumably without being maimed, then trotted off home and was subsequently identified by the police and arrested?! Out of curiosity, what do they 'do' with the person in such a case? Charging them is unlikely to help lift the obvious gloom of their situation, does a suicide attempt mean detention for one's own safety in the short term?

 

[eastdyke]

Hmm, interesting figures. Any thoughts on the eight pax who passed on? I'm assuming we're talking passengers on trains, in which case I would guess at medical occurrences etc?!

Medical issues would not count. The 8 pax are likely to have 'accidentally' fallen under a moving train at a platform, while trying to retrieve a dropped item etc.

It is sometimes quite difficult for the authorites to differentiate suicides from deaths as a result of trespass. I have seen some more detailed figures where this is discussed. Can't find at the moment will try to look up later.

 

[BestWestern]

Medical issues would not count. The 8 pax are likely to have 'accidentally' fallen under a moving train at a platform, while trying to retrieve a dropped item etc.

Good point there. Come to think of it, I suppose the accident on Merseyrail with the drunk teenager would be one of the eight straight away, and there could easily have been a handful of other similar events.

 

[HH]

But when you are so depressed for whatever reason, you don't think of who you are affecting. You just want to get it done and do it right first time.

I've often thought that many do it on purpose, because it always seems to be around the peaks, you know like kids do when they threaten suicide; "You'll be sorry when I'm gone." People never really grow up, that kid is still inside, wanting to be taken notice of.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Charging them is unlikely to help lift the obvious gloom of their situation, does a suicide attempt mean detention for one's own safety in the short term?

It depends on the exact circumstances. Mental Health law is a massively complicated area. If they are judged to lack capacity under the Mental Capacity Act then staff can act in "best interests" and remove them (with whatever force is reasonable) to a place of safety (usually a DGH ED). However simply because someone is suicidal doesn't mean that they lack capacity to make that decision. The MCA is a very powerful piece of legislation, and hasn't yet been tested in forcibly removing someone from their own homes so staff would be very reluctant to do it, understandably.

If someone has capacity, they can still be detained by using the Mental Health Act. s136 allows a Constable to take someone to a place of safety for up to 72 hours if they are apparently mentally disordered. s135 can allow a constable to remove someone from their own homes if an Approved Mental Health Professional and a Magistrate agree, again for 72 hours I think.

It is a really murky area of law.

 

[BestWestern]

All very interesting to hear, very difficult for those involved in making the decisions no doubt. Can you still be done for the suicide attempt itself or is that just a myth?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

All very interesting to hear, very difficult for those involved in making the decisions no doubt. Can you still be done for the suicide attempt itself or is that just a myth?

You used to be prosecuted for a failed attempt, but that was removed by the Suicide Act 1961.

 

[GB]

You used to be prosecuted for a failed attempt, but that was removed by the Suicide Act 1961.

I guess if you were deemed mentally capable you could be done for any other offences you might commit while attempting suicide?

 

[eastdyke]

Hmm, interesting figures. Any thoughts on the eight pax who passed on? I'm assuming we're talking passengers on trains, in which case I would guess at medical occurrences etc?!

Various reports/data can be found here from the ORR:

http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/browsereports/5

In particular:

http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/7a918f92-4bc4-46e0-8b0d-6ffc220e9de9

http://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/1bee5d03-55f1-407a-bc3d-c2112cedf0a8

 

[the sniper]

In my experience, those who fail to commit suicide (or those who seriously threaten to and put themselves in a position to do it, but never actually intend to go through with it) will normally be detained under S.136 of the MHA. It gets them help and more importantly in the short term gets them away from the railway and any immediate reattempts.

Once detained they're assessed as soon as possible and a plan is put in place to help them. Depending on the verdict of those making the assessment, the person can be detained further or freed. The BTP also put a plan in place to keep in touch with them.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Brentwood incident sounds very bizarre indeed! So said person attempted but somehow escaped presumably without being maimed, then trotted off home and was subsequently identified by the police and arrested?! Out of curiosity, what do they 'do' with the person in such a case? Charging them is unlikely to help lift the obvious gloom of their situation, does a suicide attempt mean detention for one's own safety in the short term?

Tonight's Eveninng Standard reports that following the incident, a man in his fifties was detained under the Mental Health Act.

 

[bailey65]

A bit off topic but there is a rooftop restaurant in the city of london that has had three suicides in the last 5 years where people have jumped.
I have had very low times before but i would never have dreamed of throwing my life away you just have to dig yourself out of it.

 

[tsr]

Another thread has opened regarding a fatality at Oxenholme Lake District last night - and the severe damage and delays as a result:

http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=73731

 

[NLC1072]

Hmm, interesting figures. Any thoughts on the eight pax who passed on? I'm assuming we're talking passengers on trains, in which case I would guess at medical occurrences etc?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Wow, that is quite incredible; 15 and three triers in one week. Very sad

The Brentwood incident sounds very bizarre indeed! So said person attempted but somehow escaped presumably without being maimed, then trotted off home and was subsequently identified by the police and arrested?! Out of curiosity, what do they 'do' with the person in such a case? Charging them is unlikely to help lift the obvious gloom of their situation, does a suicide attempt mean detention for one's own safety in the short term?

They went off platform four and took a cab home, who later was seen on CCTV and the cab company was contacted by the police and tracked home that way. Rather odd that one I know!