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Fatalities Discussion

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ushawk

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Go to any of our stations and you'll hear the CIS do it's Ding Dong.

Then display

**** STAND CLEAR ****
The approaching train is not
scheduled to stop at this station.​

With the appropriate announcement.

The perfect cue to jump.

So in removing these announcements, you will end up having people seeing a train coming into the station and getting close to the platform edge, potentially causing more fatal incidents - alright then.

Such as a motorway, yes. But if we can keep the problem off the railways or at least reduce it that's only a good thing.

So basically suicide isnt a problem if they dont jump in front of a train ? Unbelievable !!

The issue of suicides regardless of how people sadly choose to end their lives needs addressing, its a nationwide issue.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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Rail staff awareness - is a very good thing - people complain about CCTV coverage (Big Brother and all) - but there are a good number of instances where operators have spotted likely "candidates" - reacted by sending someone up to discreetly chat and check out - and have saved lives. A very difficult one - but members here can help out by keeping an eye out and "conversing" if need be. Every incident is a tragedy.
 

GarethJohn

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_14:_Total_Control_Zone

Watching this Film the chap mentioned he had never heard or seen anyone even contemplating suicide even when life was at it most brutal and inhumane, yet when he managed to escape to South Korea with the luxuries and comforts of the modern world Humans were more willing to take there life!!.
Although not the basis of the film it seems that when Humans are stripped of everything including dignity that the fight too stay alive becomes stronger. Even when they had little to nothing to begin with.

You will not eradicate suicide or accidental death off the Railways as if your determined you will always find a way. Are Railways the preferred option as it is possibly the quickest and easiest option? Is the rate higher than Cliff, Bridge or High Buildings?
 

HarleyDavidson

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Railways are a pretty good option,because they know that by being hit by a train at much above 40, you're guaranteed a "single" trip out of this life to the pearly gates. Being hit at 70-125+ you're definitely gone & into bits.
 

Bald Rick

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Around 5% of all suicides are on the railway, and this proportion has been broadly constant over the years.
 

sbt

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It is by no means just the Railway. A bridge over a motorway I cross on my way to work regularly has bunches of flowers on it, despite the extra defences and the Samaritans notices. Beachy Head is one of the worlds 'hot spots' and has a 24 hour anti-suicide patrol plus a weekly runs by the Police Helicopter to locate the bodies. Most of the calls for Tower RNLI on the Thames are to 'Despondent person on Bridge X threatening to enter the water' - sadly they, and the Mets Marine Policing Unit, also recover a fair few bodies.

Up until a couple of recent posts I have been impressed with how the topic has been dealt with - far more understanding for the victims than is common on the Internet. For clarity my post, which has been followed by much more informed coverage of the reasons, ran though what I thought might be 'trigger events'. Not everybody who is Depressed takes their own life but some things make it harder to resist the impulse or push you toward it. This is something I can speak from personal experience on - as can a number of my friends and colleagues.

Its very comforting to take refuge in the thought that those who become so despondent, whether through Depression or not, have brought it upon themselves. Its hard to accept that there is a disease out there that has no visible symptoms, is seductively like your personal experience of being 'a bit sad', leads, on occasion, to major inconvenience and economic disruption and can strike without rhyme nor reason. So its no wonder some people rush to invent a world where its the fault of those of who suffer from it - its much more comfortable that way. None of the people that I know who have attempted suicide or been tempted toward it fit the 'Drink, Drugs, excessive spending' profile. Most are just unfortunate enough to have a chemical imbalance in their brains. The one exception has a major brain injury that was suffered in the service of this country, along with other associated disabilities, each of which that would be 'life changing' on their own - large IEDs tend to do that to the survivors. Sadly, for them, the triggers to their near suicide were indeed the way we, in the form of their neighbours, official bodies and companies working for official bodies, treat our disabled.

Depression is a life-threatening illness that usually strikes without rhyme nor reason and has been suffered throughout history, and not just by the downtrodden or ****less. For example both Horatio Nelson and Winston S Churchill suffered from it. There are also other reasons people take their own lives that have existed throughout history - Romeo and Juliette is a play that has been repeated, with different casts and plot variations, for centuries before and after Wm Shakespeare wrote it.
 
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Antman

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Around 5% of all suicides are on the railway, and this proportion has been broadly constant over the years.

Which makes the recent speight of railway suicides all the more alarming.

Whilst there have always been suicides the recent increase has to be very concerning, there was a high profile case in my local paper recently which shocked a lot of people, as is often the case nobody had seen it coming.

Mental health issues are often very complex and even doctors often struggle to understand them, a broken leg by comparison is easily fixed.
 

GB

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While there may have been more fatalities than usual over the last couple of weeks compared to previous weeks, has there actually been an increase across the year? Or are people seeing this random spike and adding 2 and 2 together?

To date there have been about *230 recorded incidents of people being struck by trains since 1st January. This includes tresspass and accidents as well as deliberate acts and seems broadly similar to recent years.

*Based on the number of railway control log entries.
 
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thenorthern

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Every suicide is tragic but I have noticed a large amount of them happen on Inter-City lines which makes the disruption caused much worse. I am not sure if this is because Inter-City train run though cities with large populations or because people know Inter-City trains are faster therefore much more likely to kill if someone is struck by them.

There is little though the railways can do to prevent suicides if people want to commit suicide on the tracks they will always be able find a way. Having had experience from mental health teams for non-depression psychological disorders I know that for many people the help is very hard to get or non existent, I think I read somewhere there is 1 NHS Psychiatrist for ever 200000 people and many Health Trusts don't have the means or the expertise to deal with many disorders. Its also a thing to remember that the jobs with the highest rates of suicide are often very professional jobs such as Lawyers, Doctors and Dentists who are wrongly seen by some as being immune from depression.

Does anyone remember after the Paddington Train Crash in 1999 that there were incorrect stories that the driver of the Thames Train may have committed suicide.
 

cf111

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I think it's up to society, which is a very wishy-washy term but I can't think of a better one right now, to tackle depression as an illness and make suicide a less attractive option for people suffering from it. I don't think we should be saying that the railway should be fencing off every section of track in the country or building platform-edge doors. Not only would it be very expensive, it wouldn't actually help the person about to end their life, it would just mean many* would find another way.

Mental health provision in this country is poor. Once you're in the system, I think it's very good with some of the most dedicated professionals I know involved on the front-line, but they are stretched and one of the major issues is that people aren't always being referred to the right people at the right time. If they are referred, they are waiting a long time to access that expertise.

*not all suicides are long, thought out processes. Some people will attempt as a "spur-of-the-moment" thing and if faced with an hurdle it gives them time to return to a rational way of thinking. The depression will continue, but the urge to kill oneself isn't always there, if that makes sense.
 

Robertj21a

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What a pleasure to read such sensible postings, despite the very sad nature of the subject. Well done to all concerned.

Does anybody know if most people attempt/succeed suicide locally to where they live/work or do most deliberately travel quite a distance (such as Beachy Head) ?
 

thenorthern

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Does anybody know if most people attempt/succeed suicide locally to where they live/work or do most deliberately travel quite a distance (such as Beachy Head) ?

Most suicides happen at the persons home and the cause of death is normally hanging with drug overdoses and self intoxication also common.

I am not sure about the official statistics of the distance people travel to commit suicide. With the railways though from reading news reports most people I have read about committing suicide do it in the town that they live in or one nearby.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Does anybody know if most people attempt/succeed suicide locally to where they live/work or do most deliberately travel quite a distance (such as Beachy Head) ?

Mostly at home. It's relatively common to find one's dearly departed swinging from the attic.
 

Antman

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Sadly there are reports of a person having been hit by a train at Uddingston
 

cf111

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Sadly there are reports of a person having been hit by a train at Uddingston

Due to a person hit by a train between Newton Lanark and Motherwell train services through these stations may be subject to disruption on all routes. An estimate for the resumption of normal services will be provided as soon as the problem has been fully assessed.
Last Updated :27/09/2014 22:09

http://www.journeycheck.com/firstscotrail/
 

BritishRail83

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Regarding the Slough fatality last week, would the driver have carried out train protection? i.e detonators, track circuit clip etc?
 

Searle

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Glad to see that finally some people have been talking sense. The solution isn't gating platforms to physically stop people jumping, the solution is more help for people with mental health issues, and a general change in society. Tackling the root of the cause (the fact that people have depression) is what's needed, not tackling the consequence of it (jumping in front of trains).
 

HarleyDavidson

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Regarding the Slough fatality last week, would the driver have carried out train protection? i.e detonators, track circuit clip etc?

No. That would have been done by the signaller, also the use of the REC call facility would have bought everything to an immediate stand anyway. All drivers in the area & two adjacent areas either side of the area where the incident happened, will hear what would be a quite distressing call & hopefully short conversation between the driver involved & controlling signaller, before the controlling signaller restricts the conversation to the driver involved & themselves.

Once the fact of it being a person being hit by a train, then the signaller would provide the necessary signal protection or if they can't replace the signal, the driver will be told to stay at the next signal until further notice/until spoken to.
 

BritishRail83

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why?
What is the relevance exactly?:roll:

just wanted to know what the procedure was? im not an expert you see.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No. That would have been done by the signaller, also the use of the REC call facility would have bought everything to an immediate stand anyway. All drivers in the area & two adjacent areas either side of the area where the incident happened, will hear what would be a quite distressing call & hopefully short conversation between the driver involved & controlling signaller, before the controlling signaller restricts the conversation to the driver involved & themselves.

Once the fact of it being a person being hit by a train, then the signaller would provide the necessary signal protection or if they can't replace the signal, the driver will be told to stay at the next signal until further notice/until spoken to.

thanks very much for explaining that. i did not know how it would be dealt with.
 

trainophile

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Glad to see that finally some people have been talking sense. The solution isn't gating platforms to physically stop people jumping, the solution is more help for people with mental health issues, and a general change in society. Tackling the root of the cause (the fact that people have depression) is what's needed, not tackling the consequence of it (jumping in front of trains).

We are assuming that most jumpers are suffering from diagnosable depression, but I wonder how many do it on a moment's impulse, or "I'll show him/her" after a domestic situation escalates. You'd think if there was pre-intention there would have been changes in behaviour leading up to the event, and notes would be left. Of course we don't know what is discovered subsequently, and rightly so, but most clinically depressed people will be under some sort of medical supervision.
 

GarethJohn

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We are assuming that most jumpers are suffering from diagnosable depression, but I wonder how many do it on a moment's impulse, or "I'll show him/her" after a domestic situation escalates. You'd think if there was pre-intention there would have been changes in behaviour leading up to the event, and notes would be left. Of course we don't know what is discovered subsequently, and rightly so, but most clinically depressed people will be under some sort of medical supervision.

The diagnosed ones may but there are many at a point that even visiting a professional could be too much shame.
There are people who have nobody they may not even have a friend to advise them to see a doctor to get help.

How many do not see themselves as having an Alcohol problem in till it's too late?
 

najaB

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We are assuming that most jumpers are suffering from diagnosable depression, but I wonder how many do it on a moment's impulse, or "I'll show him/her" after a domestic situation escalates. You'd think if there was pre-intention there would have been changes in behaviour leading up to the event, and notes would be left. Of course we don't know what is discovered subsequently, and rightly so, but most clinically depressed people will be under some sort of medical supervision.
Sadly, that's not the case. Our society encourages people to 'put a brave face on' and 'keep the stiff upper lip', and as a result people with severe debt issues or grief can appear to be behaving perfectly normally.

I used to work at a university and one of the professors appeared to have it all - lots of papers published, commercial interest in his inventions, loving wife and children. Then one day he was found hanged. Never found out what the final straw was, but apparently he had substantial debts.

What makes things even worse is that often, once the person identifies a 'way out', their mood may improve as the internal pressure is removed.

If you have a friend or colleague who's been 'down in the dumps' for a while and suddenly they cheer up, gently check to see if they're okay as they might have made the decision to kill themselves and are just waiting for the right moment.
 

backontrack

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In the last fortnight, the amount of fatalities has been terrible. My thoughts go out sincerely to all those who were involved.
 

GarethJohn

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Is it higher or are people here noticing it more due too the number of threads started on the issue and are posters searching more in depth to post a thread?
Have people outside this forum noticed an increase? If I hadn't logged on here the last few weeks I doubt I would have been aware of any of theses incidents.
Has it increased to an extent as to no longer being newsworthy by the mainstream media anymore?

I was aware of the Bridgend suicides as they were out of the ordinary and became a news item.
Gary Speed's brought it too the attention of the public due to his placid personality who was genuinely liked by everyone and was seen as the last person to do it.
Personally I have found that the number of People I know to have killed themselves, suspected too have, or tried too is the same as it always has. Railway related or not.
Due too the increased safety at level crossings I'd have expected that fatalities at them would have decreased, is this the case?
 
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8J

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There was one at Wigan Wallgate yesterday morning. It has been very bad lately
 

Bald Rick

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Is it higher or are people here noticing it more due too the number of threads started on the issue and are posters searching more in depth to post a thread?

In the past 10 days, the number of fatalities on the railway has been around three times the 'usual' rate. Without getting too clinical, I suspect that this is however within the bounds of statistical probability.
 

HarleyDavidson

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This was someone riding a bike on the platform who lost their balance. I believe their injuries were not life threatening.

Well if they were riding a bike on the platform (which is illegal) then they got what they deserved. I've had several near misses (some at high speed) with idiots riding bikes on the platform edge and then wobbling as I blast a warning on the horns. <D
 
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