Fastest accelerating main line DC EMU?

[notadriver]

Who are the contenders for this title ? I've no real DC experience with Desiros. My favourite contender is the 465 Networker and an outsider might be the 378s (before they became 5 car units).


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[greaterwest]

I believe a 442 did a test and achieved 108mph, but DC units are not permitted to do over 100mph, which all 450/444s are capable of, likewise the Electrostars.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For all intents and purposes this is being discussed already anyway.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129424

 

[notadriver]

I believe a 442 did a test and achieved 108mph, but DC units are not permitted to do over 100mph, which all 450/444s are capable of, likewise the Electrostars.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For all intents and purposes this is being discussed already anyway.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129424

This one is not about top speed - it's about the quickest accelerating units. 442s are definitely very sluggish pulling away.

 

[MCR247]

deleted

 

[Mikey C]

I believe a 442 did a test and achieved 108mph, but DC units are not permitted to do over 100mph, which all 450/444s are capable of, likewise the Electrostars.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For all intents and purposes this is being discussed already anyway.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129424

That other thread is more about the top speed rather than acceleration, and of course it depends on which figure you're comparing, 0-30, 0-50, 0-100, 50-100 etc

A lot comes down to gearing, so 75mph stock operating with frequent stops (e.g. the 376s or 378s) ought to have better acceleration from 0-50 than express trains, stopping infrequently.

 

[Class 466]

465/0/1s accelerate faster than their 465/2/9 & 466 counterparts causing some jolting when the two are paired together!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A single 450 can be quite nippy, as can a single 455.

 

[urpert]

465/0/1s accelerate faster than their 465/2/9 & 466 counterparts causing some jolting when the two are paired together!

I suppose their electrical equipment is 15-20 years newer...

 

[JohnElliott]

I remember seeing an MLV departing Haywards Heath and thinking it was fairly quick off the mark.

4REP with no TCs?

 

[higthomas]

A single 450 can be quite nippy, as can a single 455.

Why would the acceleration of a single unit be better than that of a double? Assuming double weight, but also double the powered axles?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Because you have two units drawing on the available power, there's not much difference, probably a couple of seconds & 2 mph, but a difference none the less.

 

[NSEFAN]

That would make sense, given that the current available is the limiting factor when on DC. I'm told the 350s are much quicker off the mark thanks to full power being available from the 25kV supply.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

507/508s are pretty quick off the mark too.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The REP's were defo quickest, 3200 horses from 8 motors and similar weight and power to a deltic light loco, in fact REP's were classified as light locos when not coupled to anything! One REP power car was equivalent to a 73/1

 

[notadriver]

The REP's were defo quickest, 3200 horses from 8 motors and similar weight and power to a deltic light loco, in fact REP's were classified as light locos when not coupled to anything! One REP power car was equivalent to a 73/1

They don't exist any more so something that's in service today?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

465/0/1s accelerate faster than their 465/2/9 & 466 counterparts causing some jolting when the two are paired together!

I think it's the other way round.

 

[Domh245]

I reckon that it'll be a 378. The 378 has got 4 cars out of 5 motored, for a total of 2400kW, whilst also being geared shorter than most. It would also make sense for it to have good acceleration for the sort of routes that it is used on.

Although, they might be scaled back on DC compared to AC - if anyone could confirm?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I reckon that it'll be a 378. The 378 has got 4 cars out of 5 motored, for a total of 2400kW, whilst also being geared shorter than most. It would also make sense for it to have good acceleration for the sort of routes that it is used on.

Although, they might be scaled back on DC compared to AC - if anyone could confirm?

No cumbersome seats or toilets to slow it down either!

 

[HSTEd]

It should be noted that in degraded conditions a longer formation will have better acceleration than a shorter one as there is a slight track-cleaning effect.

 

[Deepgreen]

I reckon that it'll be a 378. The 378 has got 4 cars out of 5 motored, for a total of 2400kW, whilst also being geared shorter than most. It would also make sense for it to have good acceleration for the sort of routes that it is used on.

Although, they might be scaled back on DC compared to AC - if anyone could confirm?

If it is the 378s, then I have never experienced their performance to be anywhere near their capability - all the many workings I have been on have been sluggish away from and into stations with low speeds between stations. Painfully slow.

The old 3CEPs and 3CIGs were quite brisk, with a quarter of their weight removed.

 

[Domh245]

If it is the 378s, then I have never experienced their performance to be anywhere near their capability - all the many workings I have been on have been sluggish away from and into stations with low speeds between stations. Painfully slow.

I think that most of that is to do with some extra generous padding. Couple that with a congested network & professional driving policies, and some incredibly low speed limits (Clapham Junction cough cough) and it's not really a surprise that they hit their theoretical performance.

 

[notadriver]

I reckon that it'll be a 378. The 378 has got 4 cars out of 5 motored, for a total of 2400kW, whilst also being geared shorter than most. It would also make sense for it to have good acceleration for the sort of routes that it is used on.

Although, they might be scaled back on DC compared to AC - if anyone could confirm?

Great - now I'll have to ride a 5 car 378 under the wires to find out. I've been told the 5 car 378s are slower than 4 car on DC.

 

[AM9]

I think that most of that is to do with some extra generous padding. Couple that with a congested network & professional driving policies, and some incredibly low speed limits (Clapham Junction cough cough) and it's not really a surprise that they hit their theoretical performance.

So how fast do the 378s on the DC Electric lines out of Euston accelerate? The speed limits further out (beyond Wembley) are much better. than almost anywhere in 3rd rail metro land south of the river.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've been told the 5 car 378s are slower than 4 car on DC.

There was a mention of this being the case on units as the extra cars were originally delivered and installed, but apparently a software upgrade has since rectified whatever the original problem was, and they have been tweaked to have equivalent performance. This was reported in August 2015 in the District Dave forum's LO section.

 

[bengley]

So how fast do the 378s on the DC Electric lines out of Euston accelerate? The speed limits further out (beyond Wembley) are much better. than almost anywhere in 3rd rail metro land south of the river.

Linespeed north of Wembley is not more than 45mph. Plenty of 60/70mph in south London!

 

[AM9]

Linespeed north of Wembley is not more than 45mph. Plenty of 60/70mph in south London!

That's surprises me as there at least three stretches betw3een stations of over 2km and the line is free of any junctions (other than crossovers and the Harrow & Wealdstone turnround siding) between Wembly Central and Bushey. The whole WCML is on a fast curve which I imagine is 100mph on the slows and fasts so why are the DC tracks so crippled?
The limits on the SotR lines that the 378s travel on are pretty slow, - possible the only exception being the BML between New Cross Gate and Norwood Junction.

 

[Domh245]

That's surprises me as there at least three stretches betw3een stations of over 2km and the line is free of any junctions (other than crossovers and the Harrow & Wealdstone turnround siding) between Wembly Central and Bushey. The whole WCML is on a fast curve which I imagine is 100mph on the slows and fasts so why are the DC tracks so crippled?

I expect it is signalling related. The Bakerloo runs over the DC lines as far as Harrow & Wealdstone with a top speed of 45mph with signal spacings to match. Beyond that, there aren't (m)any long stretches where going faster would actually reduce journey time.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Hmm, dunno about 3rd rail byt 25kv Electric wise 390's are like $h!t off a stick, assuming theres nothing in front to stop the driver from opening up the throttle.

On diesel, class 185's. In second gear assuming its running on 3 engines they leave voyagers for dust. Only the higher top end speed of the voyager gives it the edge.

 

[notadriver]

That's surprises me as there at least three stretches betw3een stations of over 2km and the line is free of any junctions (other than crossovers and the Harrow & Wealdstone turnround siding) between Wembly Central and Bushey. The whole WCML is on a fast curve which I imagine is 100mph on the slows and fasts so why are the DC tracks so crippled?
The limits on the SotR lines that the 378s travel on are pretty slow, - possible the only exception being the BML between New Cross Gate and Norwood Junction.

It used to be 60 mph in the past before an accident between a Silverlink train and a Bakerloo line service. I think the line is unique in that a 45 mph up service can run next to a 125 mph (EPS speed ) Pendolino on the down fast.

 

[466.networkers]

Class 395s are rather rapid.

 

[Mikey C]

Class 395s are rather rapid.

I was wondering about them, they're very powerful even if they're hampered in 3rd rail mode