Fast trains at Shawfair

[styles]

Strange announcement at Shawfair just now.

"Please stand back from the platform edge, as fast trains pass through this station unannounced."

That's not really true, is it? Every passenger service passing through Shawfair stops at Shawfair. At a push, 3S93 is timetabled to freight some time just after midnight, but in practice is almost never does, and in any case isn't that fast, and is at max once a day at like 00:15 ish.

Do all the Borders stations have this same nonsensical announcement or am I missing some fast service which passes through?

 

[RiverDon]

It's a standard scotrail announcement at all stations with through platforms. Prerecorded by the CCTV control rooms and played to a schedule.

 

[styles]

It's a standard scotrail announcement at all stations with through platforms. Prerecorded by the CCTV control rooms and played to a schedule.

But Shawfair doesn't have a 'through platform' does it?

 

[RiverDon]

What I mean is not a buffer end. Shawfair isn't a buffer end platform is it?

 

[The exile]

But Shawfair doesn't have a 'through platform' does it?

Well, it’s not a bay, so yes - it’s a through platform.

 

[styles]

Well, it’s not a bay, so yes - it’s a through platform.

Ok I understood a through platform to be one where a train passes through without stopping.

It's a bit irrelevant if it just means a platform where a train doesn't reverse out.

If every service passing through Shawfair stops at Shawfair, along with every other station on the Borders route bar Waverley, this announcement isn't right?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It's a standard scotrail announcement at all stations with through platforms. Prerecorded by the CCTV control rooms and played to a schedule.

So they're able to have an automated announcement on a timer, but not an announcement at the correct time based on train describer data like almost every station in England?

 

[RiverDon]

I don't know the ins and outs of how the system works, it just plays every 10 minutes along with the other announcements about not smoking etc.

 

[tumbledown]

"Please stand back from the platform edge, as fast trains pass through without warning" also plays at one station I visit. Something has gone seriously wrong if they do, as there's a level crossing at the platform ends.

 

[The exile]

"Please stand back from the platform edge, as fast trains pass through without warning" also plays at one station I visit. Something has gone seriously wrong if they do, as there's a level crossing at the platform ends.

Hearing “stand clear of the edge of platform x. Fast train approaching” is always a bit alarming when there’s a large heavy freight train already sitting there. Happens quite often at Bristol Parkway.

 

[DelW]

It's a standard scotrail announcement at all stations with through platforms. Prerecorded by the CCTV control rooms and played to a schedule.

This is exactly the wrong way to do safety announcements. Playing them when there is actually no risk at all just means that passengers quickly learn to ignore them. There's then a much greater risk that they'll ignore them when standing on a platform where fast trains do actually pass.

Proper safety procedures require a risk assessment, with mitigation measures like announcements being tailored to the situation and only broadcast when relevant.

I don't know the ins and outs of how the system works, it just plays every 10 minutes along with the other announcements about not smoking etc.

Which 99% (*) of passengers completely blank out and ignore.

(*This value has been invented for rhetorical purposes and does not represent the results of actual research or analysis)

 

[Tony2]

Ok I understood a through platform to be one where a train passes through without stopping.

It's a bit irrelevant if it just means a platform where a train doesn't reverse out.

If every service passing through Shawfair stops at Shawfair, along with every other station on the Borders route bar Waverley, this announcement isn't right?

If a train cancellation or fault occurs on the borders line, I’ve seen the offending unit run non stop as a class 5 ECS all the way back to Edinburgh on a few occasions.

This obviously doesn’t happen very often.

The intention is probably to keep passengers from lurking too close to the platform edge, preventing them falling off!

 

[Kite159]

Hearing “stand clear of the edge of platform x. Fast train approaching” is always a bit alarming when there’s a large heavy freight train already sitting there. Happens quite often at Bristol Parkway.

Or hearing "stand clear of the edge of platform" for a fast nonstop train when the taillights of said train are already fading into the horizon.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Salford Crescent currently announces fast trains passing the work in progress platform, and just doesn't say the platform number, something like "Please stand back from the edge on platform (pause), the approaching train is not scheduled to stop at this station"

 

[Stephen1001]

Not so much now but in the first year or so after the line reopened, there were pretty frequent steam charters to Tweedbank - pretty much every weekend in 2016 if I recall correctly, running in daylight between regular passenger trains. This probably isn't the reason for the announcement, but perhaps of interest that it may have been more accurate not too long ago.

 

[Falcon1200]

Pretty much all through stations, even where all passenger trains normally call, can have trains passing non-stop; Passenger trains amended to run express, empty stock workings, Railhead Treatment Trains (RHTT), Engineering trains.

 

[Bikeman78]

This is exactly the wrong way to do safety announcements. Playing them when there is actually no risk at all just means that passengers quickly learn to ignore them. There's then a much greater risk that they'll ignore them when standing on a platform where fast trains do actually pass.

Proper safety procedures require a risk assessment, with mitigation measures like announcements being tailored to the situation and only broadcast when relevant.

This reminds me of SWR. The on board system says please mind the gap approaching every station, even where the platform is straight and the gap is small. At places like Raynes Park or Clapham Junction, where there genuinely is a big gap, the guard makes an announcement. In which case the auto announcer doesn't need to mention gaps at all. The TOC clearly doesn't believe that anyone takes any notice or they wouldn't specify the manual announcement at some locations.

 

[Horizon22]

This is an automatic announcement and is common across the rail network. Worldline CIS (which the vast majority of operators use) programmes this in for anything without a booked stop when it passes through.

Also the vast majority of stations on "main lines" will get some type of non-stopping service, such as freight or ECS moves.

Edit: Ah the OP seems to be talking about a pre-recorded announcement, playing every X minutes. Then yes that would be scheduled by Scotrail control.

 

[J663738]

Speaking of automatic announcements, this is 'automatic sign' was put up at my local station, which made me laugh.

 

[snookertam]

They cannot make specific announcements for each station and its circumstances, so a standard message warning people to stand back is played when a train not scheduled to stop is approaching. This ensures that at stations where trains do pass at speed, the appropriate warning is announced.

Yes it might seem daft to those who are very familiar with the railway who know the details of the approaching train, line speed etc, but not everyone is, and warning them to stand back in this manner, when a non stopping train is approaching, is a worthwhile safeguard.

 

[Horizon22]

They cannot make specific announcements for each station and its circumstances, so a standard message warning people to stand back is played when a train not scheduled to stop is approaching. This ensures that at stations where trains do pass at speed, the appropriate warning is announced.

That’s not quite correct.

In your example, yes if a non-stopping train is going through the station there will be an auto-announcement.

However the OP seems to suggest this is a pre-recorded announcement which could absolutely be set up for certain station at various times and frequencies.

 

[Megafuss]

Strange announcement at Shawfair just now.

"Please stand back from the platform edge, as fast trains pass through this station unannounced."

That's not really true, is it? Every passenger service passing through Shawfair stops at Shawfair. At a push, 3S93 is timetabled to freight some time just after midnight, but in practice is almost never does, and in any case isn't that fast, and is at max once a day at like 00:15 ish.

Do all the Borders stations have this same nonsensical announcement or am I missing some fast service which passes through?

Its only nonsensical if you think it's a good idea for folk to be standing at the platform edge at all.

 

[GordonT]

Its only nonsensical if you think it's a good idea for folk to be standing at the platform edge at all.

Perhaps the announcement should therefore simply state "Please keep well clear of the edge of the platform" rather than attributing the need for this to the one or two non stoppers in a day?

 

[saismee]

At Ipswich we have an occasional "The train now approaching platform 1 does not stop here. Please stand back from the platform edge."

Platform 1 is a bay platform.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

At Ipswich we have an occasional "The train now approaching platform 1 does not stop here. Please stand back from the platform edge."

Platform 1 is a bay platform.

Are there ECS services (or other trains without a schedule) that arrive into P1? I think that would cause it.

 

[saismee]

Are there ECS services (or other trains without a schedule) that arrive into P1? I think that would cause it.

Yes plenty of shunting moves but they don't always trigger it which is the peculiar part.

 

[blimmo]

I recently experienced an LNWR Birmingham to London that was running very late run fast to rugby which meant it passed through Coventry non-stop. I heard the "the train approaching platform 1 does not stop here" message and it legitimately gave me a good warning. Makes me very sad to hear that ScotRail can't manage this as a warning played all the time is effectively completely useless in my opinion.

 

[RiverDon]

I recently experienced an LNWR Birmingham to London that was running very late run fast to rugby which meant it passed through Coventry non-stop. I heard the "the train approaching platform 1 does not stop here" message and it legitimately gave me a good warning. Makes me very sad to hear that ScotRail can't manage this as a warning played all the time is effectively completely useless in my opinion.

The scotrail PA system does do a recorded announcement 'Please stand back from the platform edge, fast train approaching' before non stopping trains too. In addition to the regular scheduled announcements.

 

[snookertam]

That’s not quite correct.

In your example, yes if a non-stopping train is going through the station there will be an auto-announcement.

However the OP seems to suggest this is a pre-recorded announcement which could absolutely be set up for certain station at various times and frequencies.

Yes it is a pre-recorded announcement. But it’s the same announcement that gets used at all stations.

They could make other pre-recorded announcements, but they probably have better things to be getting on with. There’s nothing wrong with the announcements as is.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes it is a pre-recorded announcement. But it’s the same announcement that gets used at all stations.

They could make other pre-recorded announcements, but they probably have better things to be getting on with. There’s nothing wrong with the announcements as is.

They could just select stations they don’t want it to play at is my point.

But as you say, it’s probably not a big deal although ensuring it doesn’t play at termini would be good!