Fares with time restrictions that make them unusable

[JoeM1V]

I'm looking to travel from Fort William (FTW) to Glasgow (GLQ), one way, on a weekday. Looking at BRFares, the only (non-Advance) single is the Anytime Day Single (SDS) at £34.50, but there's a cheaper Super Off-Peak Day Return for £26.

The obvious thing to do is to buy the return and throw away the return half, but here's where things get weird. The restrictions on both outward and return are as follows:

Not valid at weekends.

Not valid Monday to Friday on trains timed to depart before 11:00.

Not valid Monday to Friday for boarding in Edinburgh, Glasgow or Aberdeen from 15:00 until 20:00.

The first outward train that meets these restrictions would be the 11:40 from FTW, which arrives in GLQ at 15:34. It's a day return, so we need a return journey on the same day, after 20:00, which doesn't exist. As far as I can tell, it's impossible to use this ticket in both directions.

I have a few questions:

• Is it possible to actually buy this ticket? Obviously anything planner-based won't sell it, but I can't get Mixing Deck to sell it either. Presumably a ticket office would sell it?
• If I buy this ticket, am I likely to have any trouble from the conductor? As i understand it it's valid on the 11:40, but I'd rather avoid an argument.
• Are there many of these unusable tickets out there?

 

[scrapy]

There are plenty of day return tickets from Denton and Reddish South that are not possible to use.

Also any off peak day single in BR fares from Manchester United FC to Manchester Stations costing £9999.95 and not even valid on metrolink!

 

[Watershed]

You can only buy this ticket from ScotRail, either online/through their app or at one of their TVMs or ticket offices, as far as I know. They've limited it to being fulfilled to smartcard (and I believe only a ScotRail smartcard at that, though I'm not 100% sure) or m-ticket in their app.

You can buy it fairly easily online/through their app by specifying "open return", as this means that no return search is undertaken and so it doesn't check to see whether a return journey is actually possible.

I wouldn't imagine there's any risk of trouble from the conductor. They may ask when you're intending on returning and you could just say you'll make your own arrangements or are taking the coach, but honestly it doesn't really matter - you can get an itinerary showing it as valid on the 11:40 and there's no compulsion to use the return portion of a return ticket.

There's plenty of unusable tickets, e.g. ones to stations that don't have a service permitting a return journey (c.f. Pilning), or which are simply sold at a time of day when it's no longer possible to reach your destination or return to your origin. As long as that risk is adequately pointed out during the purchase (which in this case, I don't think it is if you simply select "open return" - many people might take that as meaning it's a period return ticket valid for a month) there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[gray1404]

I'm looking to travel from Fort William (FTW) to Glasgow (GLQ), one way, on a weekday. Looking at BRFares, the only (non-Advance) single is the Anytime Day Single (SDS) at £34.50, but there's a cheaper Super Off-Peak Day Return for £26.

The obvious thing to do is to buy the return and throw away the return half, but here's where things get weird. The restrictions on both outward and return are as follows:

The first outward train that meets these restrictions would be the 11:40 from FTW, which arrives in GLQ at 15:34. It's a day return, so we need a return journey on the same day, after 20:00, which doesn't exist. As far as I can tell, it's impossible to use this ticket in both directions.

I have a few questions:

• Is it possible to actually buy this ticket? Obviously anything planner-based won't sell it, but I can't get Mixing Deck to sell it either. Presumably a ticket office would sell it?
• If I buy this ticket, am I likely to have any trouble from the conductor? As i understand it it's valid on the 11:40, but I'd rather avoid an argument.
• Are there many of these unusable tickets out there?

You will have no problems using this in one direction only if that suits your needs.

 

[megabusser]

I think Super Off peaks on ScotRail are all smartcard or m-ticket only…

 

[Wallsendmag]

You can only buy this ticket from ScotRail, either online/through their app or at one of their TVMs or ticket offices, as far as I know. They've limited it to being fulfilled to smartcard (and I believe only a ScotRail smartcard at that, though I'm not 100% sure) or m-ticket in their app.

Yes when it comes to Smartcards ScotRail don't interface with other TOCs. Nobody else can sell their Smartcard products. Handy when the ticket office in the Scottish capital isn't operated by ScotRail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I recall that some Manchester area booking offices (bit of thread crossover there!) wouldn't sell the old GMPTE Evening Returns if you couldn't actually get back or implied you weren't going to (they were considerably cheaper than singles). That's probably just booking office staff being laws unto themselves, though; there is nothing in the rules and never to my knowledge has been anything saying that you had to use either portion of a return ticket; the only stipulation is that if you use the return half you can't then use the outward half.

 

[Birmingham]

I recall that some Manchester area booking offices (bit of thread crossover there!) wouldn't sell the old GMPTE Evening Returns if you couldn't actually get back or implied you weren't going to (they were considerably cheaper than singles). That's probably just booking office staff being laws unto themselves, though; there is nothing in the rules and never to my knowledge has been anything saying that you had to use either portion of a return ticket; the only stipulation is that if you use the return half you can't then use the outward half.

And WMT conductors have happily suggested cheaper Evening Returns to passengers asking for singles in the West Midlands!

 

[TUC]

I recall that some Manchester area booking offices (bit of thread crossover there!) wouldn't sell the old GMPTE Evening Returns if you couldn't actually get back or implied you weren't going to (they were considerably cheaper than singles). That's probably just booking office staff being laws unto themselves, though; there is nothing in the rules and never to my knowledge has been anything saying that you had to use either portion of a return ticket; the only stipulation is that if you use the return half you can't then use the outward half.

Sounds a good reason to not use the booking office and just buy online.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds a good reason to not use the booking office and just buy online.

Back then the booking office was the only way to get one! This happened a lot in the late 90s when the only online option was using Deutsche Bahn's journey planner which had UK times in it! And the TVMs were just those "one button per destination, 4 fare types, cash only" Quickfare machines so didn't do them either.

Booking offices offering poor service isn't a new thing; the classic "Yer'll af ter go ter Lime Stsreets fer dat" on Merseyside for instance probably dates back as long as the railway itself (and may well have been true prior to APTIS's introduction). What's changed is that you no longer have to use them.

(Thread crossover again! )

 

[lyndhurst25]

More coming soon - day return fares from Grimsby/Cleethorpes to lots of places routed via Brigg.

 

[Haywain]

More coming soon - day return fares from Grimsby/Cleethorpes to lots of places routed via Brigg.

If that route is cheaper, then having a return fare allows you to make a saving for a round trip even if the round trip isn't possible by that route - you would buy a return and a change of route excess.

 

[steamybrian]

Return tickets from Polesworth or Pilning which are served in one direction only.

 

[lyndhurst25]

If that route is cheaper, then having a return fare allows you to make a saving for a round trip even if the round trip isn't possible by that route - you would buy a return and a change of route excess.

True, but what proportion of the travelling public know that that is possible? Then there is the problem of finding a booking office that is willing/capable of issuing the excess fare.

 

[PG]

Return tickets from Polesworth or Pilning which are served in one direction only.

What happens if a passenger on the return leg stops long at the next station in order to change for a service travelling back to their origin station? e.g. returning to Pilning from Bristol Temple Meads by changing at Severn Tunnel Junction - would that be permitted without having to also have a return covering Pilning - Severn Tunnel Junction?

 

[mangyiscute]

Return tickets from Polesworth or Pilning which are served in one direction only.

I recently got an Oxford to Pilning ticket since i wanted to get the train that stopped there and gwr offered it to me on there app arriving and leaving on the same train, i also claimed delay repay on both portions since it was half an hour late and these both worked fine too

 

[Autoticketgate]

They've limited it to being fulfilled to smartcard (and I believe only a ScotRail smartcard at that, though I'm not 100% sure) or m-ticket in their app.

Per their FAQ, ScotRail can sell smartcard tickets to smartcards in the Scotland Smart Travel group (which notably also includes Young Scot Cards, Scottish NEC free bus pass cards, and Subway smartcards). Personally I've managed to get my young scot to work at TVMs and on the website.

If OP doesn't already have a compatible card their best bet is to go with the m-ticket. If you're m-ticket averse (understandably), you can order a ScotRail smartcard online for free, or if you're traveling too soon to wait for one to arrive in the post, and you're going through Glasgow before you go to Fort William, then you can buy a Subway smartcard from any Subway TVM or office for £3 (so the ticket + card would work out at £29, does eat into the savings but still cheaper by a bit)

 

[Haywain]

True, but what proportion of the travelling public know that that is possible? Then there is the problem of finding a booking office that is willing/capable of issuing the excess fare.

None of which is the subject of the thread.