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Fares Review Published

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LNW-GW Joint

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This is now on the DfT web site: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ta/file/249001/fares-ticketing-next-steps.pdf

There is lots of meat here for the future, but the headlines are all about reducing the annual "flex" from 5% to 2%.

Most of it, like the summary of how things currently work published last year, is a long and turgid defence of the current ticketing setup and policy.
Changes are few and very experimental.
It does include pictures of the new mag-stripe ticket being introduced next year, but mag-stripes are to be "withdrawn in the next 10-15 years". Wow.

In reality DfT fares policy means the TOCs have very little freedom to change the fare system, including the "peak hours" restrictions.
There is absolutely no third-party input to this review.
It shows Whitehall in full control-freak mode.

Mods, feel free to move this to the Fare Policy section, but I thought this was genuinely a cross-railway subject.
 
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Captain Chaos

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So does it sound like a case of ITSO at all costs. Whether we all want it or not? Had a feeling they might be doing that if that is the case. How are they going to withdraw a method of ticketing if a majority may not have taken it up by then?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Had a brief read. Looks like the roll-out is on my routes first. Bang goes my job then. Oh well...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually, scratch that. The SEFT (South East Flexible Ticketing program) seems to only apply to season tickets. I hardly sell many of those anyway apart from the Marlow branch. Still, might as well start finding something else to do now. Keep ahead of the curve and all that. I'm sure RPI's will still be needed. The 'I left my ITSO/Bank card at home' crowd will be more than plentiful I'm sure...
 

WatcherZero

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Indeed, there will always be a need to validate peoples smart cards and check whether they are doing the journey they are elligible to make and whether they didnt swipe in at the start of their journet.
 

TEW

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I can't say I'm very impressed. All the main announcements were leaked a couple of weeks ago. Some thoughts whilst reading.

This review definitely paves the way for ticket office reductions or closures. There's statements about reducing the cost of ticket retailing. Furthermore it mentions making self-service machines easier to use and ensuring that passengers continue to receive high levels of service. This is a particularly damning statement:
" An improved approach to the way we manage approvals for changes to ticket offices with incentives for train companies to modernise ticketing facilities, while providing appropriate safeguards for passengers – including being able to get help and advice from a member of staff, where they can do so now".

The sections on part-time and shoulder-peak season tickets are a bit odd. The report is in favour of both, but says that for part-time season tickets it would be uneconomical to introduce them unless the cost of full-time season tickets is increased, which the report sensibly rules out. It also rules out government subsidy for part-time season tickets. For shoulder-peak tickets it says that they'd only be economical if there was super-peak supplement, which is also ruled out, as again is government subsidy. The report concludes that both schemes are uneconomical, but suggests a trial anyway. The report doesn't make it seem like there'd be any further roll out after the trials because it's not in the TOC's financial interests to do so and the government won't subsidise it either.

The idea of publicising crowding information looks good, not really the remit of a fares review mind, but the government hasn't mandated publicising this information, only writing to TOCs to strongly urge it.

Regulating Anytime fares on long-distance routes is ruled out, so there's still going to be the big headline fares and fare rises which can be used by the media to generate much negative press for the railway. However there is a £250 single and £500 return fares cap being implemented from January.

The section on regulating long distance single rather than return fares lacks clarity. I agree with the idea in principle but the report is silent on how it may be achieved. Nowhere does it actually state that the off-peak single would have to be 50% less than the return fare, just that the single fare would be regulated.

The publication of data from mystery shopper surveys carried out by ATOC is a positive step.

The announcement of a report of the market conditions for selling tickets could be a positive thing, although there is no way to tell the outcome of that report. This report does seem to be in favour of encouraging more third party retailers which could be a positive step, especially if TOC ticket office hours are cut. The remit of the report also covers the charging of administration fees by third party companies, which could potentially be a good thing.

"Better information about ticket options and ticket validity/restrictions;
A clear explanation of the route(s) passengers can use with their ticket;
Rail industry jargon to be replaced with plain English descriptions and explanations. "
These all seem like perfectly legitimate aims, and certainly would benefit passenger but again the report is lacking on detail of how they would be implemented. Further on Southern TVMs are highlighted as representing good practice, but the government won't be mandating other TOC's to make similar improvements.

I haven't even had time to read the sections on Smart Ticketing yet.
 

Birdbrain

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I remain sceptical, a lot of what says seems to be smart cards at all costs. And for the occasional traveller they suggest using their phone as a ticket. What happens when my phone runs out of battery and I can't show my ticket. I prefer having an actual physical ticket and I'm sure many would agree. Like others have said, a lot of it is in defence of the current system, but withdrawing paper tickets in 10-15 years? I'm not sure.
 

Captain Chaos

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I believe the current method for dealing with flat phones is either a new ticket or a TIR. Not that I can be quoted on this as I don't deal with these tickets yet
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In all fairness though, if they believe that using something a mobile phone for a ticket is the future then they must be mad. They must be. It opens up all sorts of problems. I'm sure it works for long distance tickets where a charging socket is available. But on local short journeys? Not likely. Not everyone has a smartphone. Not everyone wants one.

This document claims that this is all being done with the passengers best interests at heart. I disagree. It reads like they want passengers to use any available means of buying a ticket other than a member of staff. It's taking the self service supermarket model to an extreme. They must think we are all stupid. If they cared about the passengers as they claim they do then they should let them decide which go use and if it proves to be more successful than current paper then so be it. Forcing people to use different methods isn't putting passengers first, is it?
 
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Simon11

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Rather than ticket offices staff removed, they will be moved to assist passengers with purchasing customers with the TVMs and assist customers with questions. I would rather speak with a member of staff 1-1 than have them stuck behind a wall?

I personally think that ITSO and EMV will takeover the ticketing world with there being no need to have paper tickets or M tickets.

Changed such as a cap on Anytime fares of £500 and putting a limit on the amount any fare can go up, doesn't save the customer any money, nor is there a revenue benefit/loss for the TOCs. However at least, making these changes will give papers less ammo to make it seems like fare prices are rocking!
 

Mushtimushta

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The spin on this report is truly breathtaking. The story that the press picked up on was the Government's "commitment" to curb the ability of the Train Operating Companies to load higher increases on individual journeys. But that "commitment" didn't go as far as a ruling that fares rise by less than inflation plus 1% overall. Because that costs the Government money.
The regulation mechanism the DfT uses relies on a weighted basket of fares. In simple terms this means that if Brighton to London is worth 10 times what Hove to London is, to increase Brighton by 1% more than the average, the operator must find 10 Hove's to increase by 1% less than the average. And because a Hove to London ticket is valid via Brighton, the former cannot fall below the cost of the latter. So, if it was Southern's intention to load a higher increase on Brighton's commuters, these commuters will be potentially better off next Jan, but those travelling from the 10 Hove's will be worse off. So the commitment to "put money back in the pockets of hard-pressed commuters" is totally hollow - there will be as many losers as winners.
 
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jon0844

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I'm going to try and ignore politics but say a move to ITSO ticketing is excellent news. And as TfL has done, staff will hopefully remain even if it's more of a customer service role.

Talking of which, I saw a FCC RPI with a badge that said (in quite small letters) Customer service / Revenue Protection Officer on it. I thought it was quite amusing anyway!
 

infobleep

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Given that individual tickets can't be raised by more than 3% above inflation, could train companies resort to introducing more restrictions on routes people can take? Then introduce new higher priced tickets so that they can continue to effectively increase fares without technically doing so for the existing ticket types.

If the ticket was an any permitted route ticket I guess it would be difficult to do. What would happen in future in cases such as the any permitted Worthing to Leatherhead season ticket, which if my memory served me correctly, increased by £100? Would things like that no longer be possible.

I think the following is a good idea in theory:
"Trialling more flexible tickets that can provide a more attractive offer for commuters travelling fewer than five days a week, or outside peak hours, that can better match more modern working patterns and potentially help to better manage capacity on the railways."

I travel to places weekly and might buy a flexible ticket but as nothing exists I can't. If they introduce such offers I might be tempted. It would depend on the costs of course. The other issue might be that if both were season tickets, you'd not be able to travel through a station they start or end at without stopping. What is required is a kind of weekly extension at a disscount if multiple purchases are made at the same time. So perhaps someone buys 52 weekly journeys in one go for example. Whether that is their intention I don't know as I'm only just starting to read the report.

Not quite sure how what they say they are doing in the summery is simplifying the fares. It looks to be making them more complex. With the ideas they want to introduce it might be a good thing but simplifying I'm not so sure. However even if they are simplifying the fares, that doesn't mean they are simplifying the restrictions.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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Given that individual tickets can't be raised by more than 3% above inflation, could train companies resort to introducing more restrictions on routes people can take? Then introduce new higher priced tickets so that they can continue to effectively increase fares without technically doing so for the existing ticket types.

That's exactly what they did on Chester-Birmingham a couple of years ago.
The Any Permitted Off Peak CDR fare used to be set by ATW and was valid via Stafford or Shrewsbury.
That fare still exists but is restricted to the slower and less frequent Shrewsbury route.
Meanwhile LM introduced new higher fares via the quicker Stafford route, with no CDR, so you have to pay the higher SVR fare.
The same trains are now something like 60% dearer than they were.
 

infobleep

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I've only read up to chapter 4 so far, so some of my comments below may be answered in later chapters. The review on the whole seems to encourage greater transparaency. It certain has some ideas I approve of.

The thing about regulating long distance fares is that a journey from Weymouth to Dover could be considered long distance in terms of time it takes to get there but I doubt you'd find any advance purchase fares between the two places because they straddle two or three train operators. I would prefer advance purchase to apply to any destination. It doesn't have to be every train, if they need to regulate it for passenger numbers but there must surely be quieter periods of the day when travelling between Weymouth and Dover. I only use that as an example.

It seems to be me that you have travel either north of London; west on FGW; or east on Greater Anglia to get advanced purchase fares that are not restricted to just one train operator. Actually I'm not 100% certain about Greater Anglia and advanced purchase tickets involving other train companies.

For example many advance purchase fares exist between Reading and Oxford but none between Readiing and Guildford, bar one in the early morning from Guildford to Reading and one in the afternoon from Reading to Guildford. Oxford is no further away in distance than Guildford, so why is Oxford worthy of an advance purchase ticket. Is the market more competitive there? Will we start to see innovations in pricing only where there is train operator competition.

I've read nothing about dealing with two tickets being cheaper than one. For example on Dec 7 around 3pm, the fares to Manchester from Harrow at £14. From Euston they are £12.50. If a passenger has a zones 1-5 Oyster Card, it is cheaper for them to travel into London. This will be because from Euston they are only travelling on one train company. Whether this could be explained in a handy document for passengers I don't know. All they need to point out is that if you'er going north it may be cheaper from another station if the journey from that station involves just 1 train operator.

Instead of stating that the ticket can only be used at certain times of the day [photo on page 55], how about actually printing the times on each ticket. After all the systems selling the tickets know when they are valid. By printing the times, users would know without having to ask someone else. That would make it even more transparent. I think there should be a review of negative easements and whether these are explained to passengers well enough. The new tickets list more information but I bet the any permitted won't say which routes are not permitted on the any permitted. Would issuing a piece of paper, with every ticket purchased, listing all the easements that apply to the journey the person is making, be feasible? Then passengers might have a better understanding. I certainly think the routing guide and easements should be better promoted for transparency.

The government wants rail companies to use plain english. Will this extend to the easements, which whether written in plain english or not, can be confusing at times and lead people to wonder what is valid. For example I am not always certain if I can double back between Waterloo and Victoria. I did so once only because I had an itinerary that showed I could.

Should their be a review and consultation on the routing guide itself. Yes not many passengers would respond but surely people in the industry would, along with knowledgable people not working in the industry.

I certainly agree with the following, if implemented well "In addition, where planned changes lead to a reduction in staff cover at stations, explicit consideration should be given as to how to continue to make services such as waiting rooms and toilets available to the public. " Currently if ticket office hours change then so do the toilet opening hours. Rail companies claim they need to close them in order to keep them available to passengers. Well they certainly are not available if they are shut.

I wonder how many toilets exist at stations still in use compared to the total number of toilets in use across all the same stations back in the 1950s. Personally I prefer to know that the station toilet is open. Alternatively I would be happy for toilets to be available on all trains.

Given the cost of buying houses on the Guildford New line, in the villages between Guildford and Surbiton, I am surprised that first class carriages have not been introduced. Surely there must be customers who would pay more, like they do on the Portsmouth Direct line through Guildford. By offering such carriages, it would be another way to raise further revenue.
 
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anme

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A couple of questions:

- When will the "shoulder peak" be? Will it be part of the current peak times (meaning no one will pay more and some will pay less)? Or will it extend into the current off peak times (meaning some will pay more)?
- Do phones with NFC require the battery to be charged for the NFC module to be used? Oystercards (etc) have no internal power source, so it might be possible to use the phone as a ticket even when the battery is dead, at least after initial set up.
 

swt_passenger

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For example many advance purchase fares exist between Reading and Oxford but none between Readiing and Guildford, bar one in the early morning from Guildford to Reading and one in the afternoon from Reading to Guildford. Oxford is no further away in distance than Guildford, so why is Oxford worthy of an advance purchase ticket. Is the market more competitive there? Will we start to see innovations in pricing only where there is train operator competition.

Without looking it up I bet those 'one each way' Guildford Advance fares will be XC's token single service each way. All you've discovered for that particular route is that XC do Advance fares, and FGW don't.

Whereas Oxford to Reading XC and FGW share out the market...
 
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