Fares no-one would buy

[142094]

York - Sunderland on GC. Cheaper to split at Hartlepool.

Thanks Yorkie for that one!

 

[yorkie]

York - Sunderland on GC. Cheaper to split at Hartlepool.

Thanks Yorkie for that one!

You're welcome! But it's not a pointless ticket, as the GC only is the best to get if you are returning a different day. Or if you are doing the journey same day from Sunderland on the 0641.

 

[tony_mac]

most afternoons - Preston to Wigan 1st Advance single £33.50 - when the 1st Anytime single is £8.50

 

[royaloak]

In the examples in section F it says..

Quote:
A ticketholder with a ticket routed “Manchester” must go via Manchester and therefore only has a choice of those routes in the list that include Manchester.....

If the “Any Permitted” fare is less than the “Manchester” routed fare, the ticketholder may not go via Manchester.


Which I think is also quite clear.

So an ANY PERMITTED ticket isnt valid by a route which is a permitted route on another ticket, so therefore cannot be an "any permitted" route ticket then surely!

 

[yorkie]

So an ANY PERMITTED ticket isnt valid by a route which is a permitted route on another ticket, so therefore cannot be an "any permitted" route ticket then surely!

Well, exactly. The Routeing Guide may be 'clear' on certain points, but put the whole thing together and it's anything but clear. Which contradictions are right and which are wrong? We may never know! Which rules should trump which other rules? Each booking engine has it's own implementation of the Routeing Guide, they don't always agree. That's because computer programmers have to specify rules in a specific order. The Routeing Guide isn't clearly worded so they have to interpret it. As, indeed, do we.

At the end of the day though if it's unclear, consumer law protects us

 

[First class]

Well, exactly. The Routeing Guide may be 'clear' on certain points, but put the whole thing together and it's anything but clear. Which contradictions are right and which are wrong? We may never know! Which rules should trump which other rules? Each booking engine has it's own implementation of the Routeing Guide, they don't always agree. That's because computer programmers have to specify rules in a specific order. The Routeing Guide isn't clearly worded so they have to interpret it. As, indeed, do we.

At the end of the day though if it's unclear, consumer law protects us

I wouldn't exactly say 'protect' though.

It can be a very long and tiring process going to court/solicitors to battle out consumer terms and conditions.

Although, I agree you would win, particularly with Manchester-Reading Any Permitted tickets, I think most people would just accept the excess knowing that they wouldn't have the time to invest in such a case.

The whole system is too complicated- it adds pressure to both staff and customers, creates horrendous anomalies and does not offer value for money to any party.

 

[bnm]

Shirehampton (on the Severn Beach Line) to Waterloo - route Warminster/Salisbury, CDR = £27.10

Montpelier to Waterloo (same line, same route - closer to Waterloo), CDR = £28.10. In fact all stations on the SVB Line to Waterloo via Salisbury have the CDR priced at £28.10 except Shirehampton which is a pound cheaper!

Both fares priced by FGW with exactly the same restriction code.

It gets worse: Bristol Temple Meads to Waterloo (same route), CDR = £37.60! This fare is priced by SWT.

My best guess as to why this is so is to do with the mileage travelled (and therefore ORCATS rules) by FGW then SWT based on a normal change at Salisbury, but oddly the restriction on the SWT fare from Temple Meads (C4) allows arrival into WAT after 10am, whilst the FGW fare(s) from stations on the SVB Line show no specific outbound time restriction (Q9). Journey Planners however do not give up a CDR fare from say Shirehampton to Waterloo until 0918, despite the fact that you have to go through Bristol Temple Meads.

Q9 from NFM05:

CDS/CDR/FCR/GE1 OFF-PEAK DAY
ODT/OTF OFF-PEAK DAY
TRAVELCARD
FTC FAMILY TRAVELCARD

Off-Peak Day Singles and
returns: Valid for travel on
the date shown on the ticket
and until 0230 the following
day. If it is not possible to
complete the journey before
this time, travel is allowed
until 1200 the day after
travel - but no further break
of journey is allowed.

I have regularly travelled from Bristol to Waterloo via Salisbury using the CDR fare from Shirehampton (joining short as permitted by NRCoC) to arrive at Waterloo at 1019, despite the JPs not allowing this. Which is right - JPs or NFM? And what happens if I get a guard or gateline staffer saying my CDR from Shirehampton is not valid on the first arrival into Waterloo after 1000, when the same journey on a ticket from Temple Meads is?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Found another one..


Man Picc to Shrewsbury SVR restriction 2V (not before 09:30)- £28.80 CC
Man Picc to Shrewsbury SOR -------- (use on any train)- £61.00 CC
Man Picc to Ludlow SVR restriction 8A (use on any train)- £31.60 ATW

If travelling from Manchester to Shrewsbury pre-09:30 on a weekday, Cross Country [why CC ??] attempt to charge you almost double...

 

[yorkie]

Found another one..


Man Picc to Shrewsbury SVR restriction 2V (not before 09:30)- £28.80 CC
Man Picc to Shrewsbury SOR -------- (use on any train)- £61.00 CC
Man Picc to Ludlow SVR restriction 8A (use on any train)- £31.60 ATW

If travelling from Manchester to Shrewsbury pre-09:30 on a weekday, Cross Country [why CC ??] attempt to charge you almost double...

There's loads of examples like that.

Wolves to Hudds is cheaper than just to Manchester at "peak" (as defined by CrossCountry) times! But that's to name just one out of many.

Perhaps the most extreme pricing differential is this...

York-Dronfield £18.80 SOR
York-Chesterfield £55.50 SOR

£36.70 extra to do about 5 miles! Many people are shocked when they hear about the £55.50 Chesterfield ticket. It's absolutely scandalous.

It's actually cheaper to get a 7 day season Dronfield-Chesterfield (£12.50) and a SOR York-Dronfield, enabling you to get a fast CrossCountry ticket without calling at Dronfield

The £55 fare is so extortionate that a 7 day season for the through journey is only £26 more!

For £55 I'd expect an at-seat meal and a bay of 4 to myself, not a standard class hard worn out seat on a vibrating Vomiter.

 

[Malton Seadog]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but:

Scarborough to Seamer - 1st Class Single: £7.50

It's 3 miles and 5 minutes!

 

[John @ home]

Scarborough to Seamer - 1st Class Single: £7.50

It's 3 miles and 5 minutes!

This one really is ridiculous.
1st Class Single: £7.50

In both NFM 05 and NFM 06, Scarborough to Seamer also has
1st Class Anytime Return: £15.00
1st Class 7-day Season: £15.00

I wonder if there's anywhere else that the price of a weekly season does not exceed that of one return ticket.

 

[LE Greys]

Gatwick Airport-London Victoria (GatEx) - £28:70 Anytime Return
Gatwick Airport-London Victoria (GatEx) - £23:00 Anytime Day Return
Gatwick Airport-London Victoria (SN only) - £23:70 Anytime Return
Gatwick Airport-London Victoria (SN only) - £11:40 Off Peak Day Return
Can be done as two singles for £16;30 (SN only)
Gatwick Airport-Potter's Bar (Any Permitted, inc GatEx) - £17:00 Off Peak Day Return
Why doesn't everyone use it? It was even better when you could get Network Awaybreaks (also valid on GatEx). But still worth remembering if you're up for the day. Not sure if you can do something similar the other way on a ticket to Three Bridges.

 

[Ivo]

This one really is ridiculous.
1st Class Single: £7.50

In both NFM 05 and NFM 06, Scarborough to Seamer also has
1st Class Anytime Return: £15.00
1st Class 7-day Season: £15.00

I wonder if there's anywhere else that the price of a weekly season does not exceed that of one return ticket.

I would take this on step further and look at the Standard fares. Even a completely unrestricted Open return in STD is on £4.30, yet the STD Season ticket is £10! That means that buy the time you upgrade to a 7-day season ticket, you're more than half way to a First Class season ticket...

...although, then again, why the hell is there an SOR ticket anyway?!

 

[Techniquest]

York - Sunderland on GC. Cheaper to split at Hartlepool.

Thanks Yorkie for that one!

Not seeing how that's possible personally. Just looked into this, as I'm needing to save every penny I can:

Kings Cross to Hartlepool OPR with Y-P is £45.55
Hartlepool to Sunderland GC Only return is £2, again with Y-P

Which makes Kings Cross to Sunderland with a split to be £47.55, whilst the through fare from Kings Cross to Sunderland with Y-P is £46.85. So the split is 80p more!

 

[tony_mac]

York - Sunderland on GC.

There are some really good CDR fares from York to the coast, as long as you don't go via Darlington.

 

[Techniquest]

I, umm, mis-read that...

Apologies then!