Fares missing on ticket machine?!

[giblets]

So arrived at my station (KGS) this morning, and seems the ticket machine has been re-programmed?!

The normal sequence of screens has changed (at the destination entry screen), then half the fares seem to have disappeared? None of the anytime day returns were available (costing me £10 extra!). If I check online they are available for the journey?! Unfortunately I didn’t have time before the train arrived to faff around (this was my normal arrival time). Anyone else had this issue?

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes have noticed this, its why i seldom use the machines unless its an emergency. I wonder if this is a way to nudge people to use apps and e-tickets?

 

[transportphoto]

Please elaborate on which station, which operator, etc? You’re probably best to reach out to the operator to explain what’s happened, ask for a refund, etc.

 

[giblets]

Please elaborate on which station, which operator, etc? You’re probably best to reach out to the operator to explain what’s happened, ask for a refund, etc.

Thanks, edited the post with the station, operator is Chiltern.

 

[jfollows]

KGS?

 

[giblets]

KGS?

Kings sutton

 

[CyrusWuff]

Sounds like the "Popular Tickets" list has been updated for some reason.

The machine should still offer the full range of tickets if you go through to the journey planner though.

 

[ianBR]

It’s almost like the industry wants to find every possible way it can to rip off customers

If the popular tickets screen is not displaying the cheapest ticket options it should be a legal requirement to at least have a massive warning that cheaper tickets are available by clicking a different button.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It’s almost like the industry wants to find every possible way it can to rip off customers

If the popular tickets screen is not displaying the cheapest ticket options it should be a legal requirement to at least have a massive warning that cheaper tickets are available by clicking a different button.

On the flip side if there are Advance tickets available for the journey the popular tickets screen bypasses these.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Having had a play at another station, it looks like two changes have been implemented to Chiltern's TVM fleet:

• Sale of (most) Rovers and Rangers has been enabled, as per Northern's fleet
• The Popular Tickets screen has been added to the "Quick Tickets" purchase flow, matching the full journey planner flow

I suspect it may be the latter that has resulted in the OP's issue if they weren't expecting to see it.

The full range of tickets that can be sold at TVMs remains available by choosing the "Find other tickets" option from the popular tickets screen.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Having had a play at another station, it looks like two changes have been implemented to Chiltern's TVM fleet:

• Sale of (most) Rovers and Rangers has been enabled, as per Northern's fleet
• The Popular Tickets screen has been added to the "Quick Tickets" purchase flow, matching the full journey planner flow

I suspect it may be the latter that has resulted in the OP's issue if they weren't expecting to see it.

The full range of tickets that can be sold at TVMs remains available by choosing the "Find other tickets" option from the popular tickets screen.

Both are RDG planned enhancements, more to follow

 

[Deerfold]

It’s almost like the industry wants to find every possible way it can to rip off customers

If the popular tickets screen is not displaying the cheapest ticket options it should be a legal requirement to at least have a massive warning that cheaper tickets are available by clicking a different button.

Though that has to be implemented carefully or you get issues like Northern had in West Yorkshire where the machine points you towards a half-price local ticket only available to those with a West Yorkshire ENTCS card, which most won't be entitled to (it wasn't a clear description of what it was, either, so some may have bought in confusion).

Or the issue I think they still have where you're suggested a slightly cheaper ticket only valid on a handful of services on some routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One more tap for some, but I always thought "popular destinations" as per the Shere machines was better than "popular tickets" as per others.

 

[Ziggiesden]

It’s almost like the industry wants to find every possible way it can to rip off customers

If the popular tickets screen is not displaying the cheapest ticket options it should be a legal requirement to at least have a massive warning that cheaper tickets are available by clicking a different button.

I joke with Passengers:

"Don't use the machines unless you have downloaded the User Manual and went to University for eight years to understand the fares system".

It gets a laugh as it is true.

 

[Wallsendmag]

One more tap for some, but I always thought "popular destinations" as per the Shere machines was better than "popular tickets" as per others.

Thats my thinking now.

 

[giblets]

So on my return I had another play with the machine, selected by tickets (tickets to Birmingham were not one. Quick fares) , then by destination…return tickets for my train were ‘from’ £28 (which is a lie), then select return, you then have to scroll through the timetable for all the return trains (2-3 pages) before the £19 return fare becomes visible

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Suppose that's a problem for TVMs which use journey planning interfaces. A £19.10 Anytime Day Return, route "Chiltern Only", wouldn't be valid for any itinerary from Kings Sutton to/from Birmingham Snow Hill partially using GWR, and unfortunately can't even be excessed.

 

[CyrusWuff]

So on my return I had another play with the machine, selected by tickets (tickets to Birmingham were not one. Quick fares) , then by destination…return tickets for my train were ‘from’ £28 (which is a lie), then select return, you then have to scroll through the timetable for all the return trains (2-3 pages) before the £19 return fare becomes visible

If you know exactly what ticket you want (providing it's not an Advance) try using the "Quick Tickets" option next time, rather than "Buy Tickets."

That bypasses the journey planner on Chiltern machines (also LNER and Northern ones if it's enabled) and shows all of the walk-up fares and the next train each is valid on.

 

[giblets]

Suppose that's a problem for TVMs which use journey planning interfaces. A £19.10 Anytime Day Return, route "Chiltern Only", wouldn't be valid for any itinerary from Kings Sutton to/from Birmingham Snow Hill partially using GWR, and unfortunately can't even be excessed.

The train I selected for the first part of the journey was chiltern direct to snow hill. Previously the 1st fare offered was the £19.10 option, now it does not appear as any of the options, until you go through and specifically pick a return chiltern train?!

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you know exactly what ticket you want (providing it's not an Advance) try using the "Quick Tickets" option next time, rather than "Buy Tickets."

That bypasses the journey planner on Chiltern machines (also LNER and Northern ones if it's enabled) and shows all of the walk-up fares and the next train each is valid on.

I really wouldn't advise avoiding the journey planner and therefore APOD (Advance Purchase On the Day) on LNER (London North Eastern Railway)

 

[CyrusWuff]

I really wouldn't advise avoiding the journey planner and therefore APOD on LNER

Didn't say it was a good idea for LNER, but you can if you want.

In the example that started the thread, I think it's safe to say that Chiltern don't currently offer APOD between Kings Sutton and Birmingham.

 

[miklcct]

I really wouldn't advise avoiding the journey planner and therefore APOD on LNER

I think that the journey planner should not be the default unless specifically opted in to travel at a future time. The most common use case of a ticket machine is to travel immediately.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I think that the journey planner should not be the default unless specifically opted in to travel at a future time. The most common use case of a ticket machine is to travel immediately.

Thats where APOD (Advance Purchase On the Day) comes in for some journeys and exactly why some TOCs need a journey planner, unless you don't mind paying walkup fares?

 

[Fermiboson]

We could also have sensible walkup fares…

Here’s an idea: A split screen, one side showing the itineraries with any advance marked appropriately, and the other side showing all valid flexible tickets available for the route.

So, to take a relatively complicated hypothetical example, London Terminals <> Bristol Temple Meads:

Journey specific tickets
London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
13:30 - 15:00
Direct | Advance single from £39.50

London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads.
13:48 - 15:28
1 change | Super off-peak single from £43.00

London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
14:00 - 15:35.
Direct | Advance single from £39.50

Flexible tickets

Anytime Day Single
£132.60

Off Peak Single
£60.80

Super Off Peak Single
£43.00

Anytime Day Single - via Salisbury and Warminster only
£52.80

Super Off Peak Single - via Salisbury and Warminster only
£32.00

Imagine those two on two sides - formatting’s messed up.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Or we could start by sorting fares and making TVMs (Ticket Vending Machines) much easier to use

 

[miklcct]

Thats where APOD (Advance Purchase On the Day) comes in for some journeys and exactly why some TOCs need a journey planner, unless you don't mind paying walkup fares?

I don't think any APOD can be bought as late as 2 minutes before departure (a reasonable time for travelling immediately).

The latest I know for an Advance ticket to be sold is 15 minutes before departure, which is still hardly for "travelling immediately".

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't think any APOD can be bought as late as 2 minutes before departure (a reasonable time for travelling immediately).

The latest I know for an Advance ticket to be sold is 15 minutes before departure, which is still hardly for "travelling immediately".

Sorry APOD (Advance Purchase on the Day) can be bought at anytime, some TVMs have a 5 min cutoff for the next service though. LNER (London North Eastern Railway) have had tomake quite a few changes to accomadate simpler fares.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think any APOD can be bought as late as 2 minutes before departure (a reasonable time for travelling immediately).

The latest I know for an Advance ticket to be sold is 15 minutes before departure, which is still hardly for "travelling immediately".

2 minutes is a bit tight for most people for long distance services particularly from a TVM where it could easily be 2 minutes to the platform - there has to be some sort of protection against people buying nonrefundable tickets they physically can't use. Northern's seem to be available right up to scheduled departure time, though a flaw in APOD (if it becomes the only affordable way to travel) is that they are normally not available after scheduled departure time for a given train even if it's late.

 

[Haywain]

15 minutes before departure, which is still hardly for "travelling immediately".

Actually, for a large part of the population, that would be regarded as immediate. We have established over many previous posts and threads that you hold different standards to the rest of us.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually, for a large part of the population, that would be regarded as immediate. We have established over many previous posts and threads that you hold different standards to the rest of us.

I think it depends on whether you're making an intercity journey or a local one. I think for an intercity journey 15 minutes is fine, but for a local journey (particularly on a frequent service where people don't plan for a specific departure) you want much closer to departure (but not so close you end up selling tickets that may be unusable) - 5 minutes is probably a reasonable time for that, certainly most would struggle getting from the main concourse at Manchester Piccadilly to 13/14 in less than that, and I know you can't reasonably make an Avanti-LNR connection at Milton Keynes Central southbound in 2 minutes because I just missed one the other week with exactly that amount of time available to do it.