Fares increase 5th March, April tickets still showing current prices

[trainophile]

I understand 5th March is the date when the next round of fare increases happens. I've been buying Advance tickets for after this date which are still at the current prices, which is fine.

However I need an Anytime Return for towards the end of April, which is currently showing the same price as if I was travelling tomorrow, but I'm assuming this will increase on 5th March. Problem is I don't want to buy it until nearer the time, as if it turns out to be strike day/s it's a hassle claiming it back. Hoping we may get more idea of the likelihood of the strikes being ongoing (or not) within a few weeks. Presumably the new price of my required ticket, whatever it turns out to be, will kick in on 5th March, so it is safe to assume that I can buy this ticket any time up to 4th March at the current price?

 

[miklcct]

If your chosen service is affected by the strike you can get a fee-free refund.

 

[alistairlees]

so it is safe to assume that I can buy this ticket any time up to 4th March at the current price?

Yes

 

[trainophile]

If your chosen service is affected by the strike you can get a fee-free refund.

Yes I know, but it's still a nuisance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2023 ==

Yes

Thank you, so nothing will go up for after 5th March until that actual date.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Yes I know, but it's still a nuisance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2023 ==


Thank you, so nothing will go up for after 5th March until that actual date.

It's been many years since I sold a ticket, but I'm sure it used to be the case that tickets for travel after a price change were charged at the old price until 4 weeks prior to the new price? Put another way, if you were to buy a ticket for travel on 5 March on 4 February, you pay the old price. Buy it on 6 February, you pay the new price.
Perhaps things have changed since my day?
Don't forget strike dates only have to be announced two weeks in advance.

 

[Hadders]

It's been many years since I sold a ticket, but I'm sure it used to be the case that tickets for travel after a price change were charged at the old price until 4 weeks prior to the new price? Put another way, if you were to buy a ticket for travel on 5 March on 4 February, you pay the old price. Buy it on 6 February, you pay the new price.
Perhaps things have changed since my day?
Don't forget strike dates only have to be announced two weeks in advance.

I believe it changed a couple of years ago when the fares increase was put back to March and the fares were not ready to launch in retail systems until very close to the day of the price change.

 

[Haywain]

I believe it changed a couple of years ago when the fares increase was put back to March and the fares were not ready to launch in retail systems until very close to the day of the price change.

Not quite - it's that DfT have decreed that the new fares should not be used or made available for scrutiny prior to the March date. There was an occasion in the last couple of years where one TIS actually released the new fares a few days early and had to rapidly reverse that.

 

[MotCO]

I remember it always used to be the case that annual seasons were always bought in the last few days of December to avoid the fare increase early in the New Year.

 

[Hadders]

Not quite - it's that DfT have decreed that the new fares should not be used or made available for scrutiny prior to the March date. There was an occasion in the last couple of years where one TIS actually released the new fares a few days early and had to rapidly reverse that.

Historically the rail industry always used to shoot itself in the foot over the annual fares increase giving the media three opportunities to 'give them a beating':

1. When the RPI figure on which the fares increase was announced
2. When the new fares became known 4 weeks ahead of them going live
3. The day they came into effect

Then for added negative publicity the increase came in on the first working day after the new year, one of the slowest news days of the year....

 

[Mojo]

Yes I know, but it's still a nuisance.

If you buy it on Trainsplit (including through the forum's fare engine (tickets.railforums.co.uk)) then if the train you are booked on gets deleted or cancelled, you get emailed a link which allows you to get a fee-free cancellation. It's really simple and hassle free. This includes even if another trip in the booking isn't cancelled or deleted, for instance if you book an Advance single for an outbound trip, you can get a refund on both tickets even though it isn't technically a return.

 

[Adam Williams]

This includes even if another trip in the booking isn't cancelled or deleted, for instance if you book an Advance single for an outbound trip, you can get a refund on both tickets even though it isn't technically a return.

To be completely clear to anyone else reading, they do need to form a journey with an outward part and a return part. You can't just put 10 random advances from around the UK on various dates in a basket and then refund the whole lot when one of them happens to fall on a strike day (if only!)

 

[Haywain]

Historically the rail industry always used to shoot itself in the foot over the annual fares increase giving the media three opportunities to 'give them a beating':

1. When the RPI figure on which the fares increase was announced
2. When the new fares became known 4 weeks ahead of them going live
3. The day they came into effect

Then for added negative publicity the increase came in on the first working day after the new year, one of the slowest news days of the year....

Well, the first of those was actually down to the DfT choosing a date to announce it. In the industry, over the last few years before CoVid there was further trepidation that the government would have a last minute rethink and reduce the level of increase. I seem to recall that was part of the reason for the first delay to March - it was changed so late that the new fares couldn't possibly be ready for the 4 weeks 'notice' period.

 

[thedbdiboy]

It's been many years since I sold a ticket, but I'm sure it used to be the case that tickets for travel after a price change were charged at the old price until 4 weeks prior to the new price? Put another way, if you were to buy a ticket for travel on 5 March on 4 February, you pay the old price. Buy it on 6 February, you pay the new price.
Perhaps things have changed since my day?
Don't forget strike dates only have to be announced two weeks in advance.

I believe it changed a couple of years ago when the fares increase was put back to March and the fares were not ready to launch in retail systems until very close to the day of the price change.

Not quite - it's that DfT have decreed that the new fares should not be used or made available for scrutiny prior to the March date. There was an occasion in the last couple of years where one TIS actually released the new fares a few days early and had to rapidly reverse that.

The reason for the lack of advance sales is that Government (i.e. DfT wrangling with Treasury) has been unable to advise the industry in sufficient time to both get the fares input, uploaded and distributed for March implementation and allow a months notice of the new prices. They are aware that whilst best endeavours are put in place to achieve the changeover overnight, the sheer scale and variety of systems in use across a range of channels and managed by a whole range of third parties means that there is always a high likelihood that something somewhere will end up going a bit early or a bit late.
The root of the issue is that since 1995 the industry has been reliant on a fare setting schedule distributed to the entire extended supply chain in good time - but since Covid this keeps being subject to change.

 

[miklcct]

To be completely clear to anyone else reading, they do need to form a journey with an outward part and a return part. You can't just put 10 random advances from around the UK on various dates in a basket and then refund the whole lot when one of them happens to fall on a strike day (if only!)

How can I form a journey with an outward part and a return part if I return to a different station? For example, an Advance ticket from Cricklewood to somewhere in the north using the Midland Main Line, and return to Brondesbury via the West Coast Main Line?

 

[westv]

I remember it always used to be the case that annual seasons were always bought in the last few days of December to avoid the fare increase early in the New Year.

I used to do that

 

[Adam Williams]

How can I form a journey with an outward part and a return part if I return to a different station? For example, an Advance ticket from Cricklewood to somewhere in the north using the Midland Main Line, and return to Brondesbury via the West Coast Main Line?

Although the API will, I believe, support complex journey planning like this - the user interface doesn't, so you can't do that. You'd need to book separately and make the case to customer services for consideration. 99.9% of our customers consider a journey to arrive at (on the outbound leg) the same station (or at least, in the same group of stations) they depart from on the return portion.

 

[trainophile]

Adam, what would the situation be if for example I book to go to Devon on what turns out to be a strike day, but have also booked tickets for a day out to Penzance for a day during my stay, which isn't in itself a strike day? If I abandon the Devon trip altogether would related tickets be refundable? The logical thing is of course not to book the day out tickets until within a fortnight of my trip, but occasionally Advances are available well beforehand.

This is a genuine enquiry as I am currently considering doing exactly this in April!

 

[Adam Williams]

Adam, what would the situation be if for example I book to go to Devon on what turns out to be a strike day, but have also booked tickets for a day out to Penzance for a day during my stay, which isn't in itself a strike day? If I abandon the Devon trip altogether would related tickets be refundable?

You wouldn't be able to get an automated refund, but if the "secondary" tickets were clearly part of a trip that you had to abandon due to the strikes, we'd be able to use our discretion to give a refund of those additionally-booked tickets if you shoot a message to customer services.

 

[trainophile]

Thank you, that's reassuring, and you've never let me down yet!

 

[Starmill]

Not quite - it's that DfT have decreed that the new fares should not be used or made available for scrutiny prior to the March date. There was an occasion in the last couple of years where one TIS actually released the new fares a few days early and had to rapidly reverse that.

I had understood this March date to be the case generally - is it only for the flexible ticket types, or some other subset, or does it apply for all prices?

I've asked because the wording used in an email I've received from Trainsplit today is "fares will be increasing starting 5th February" and "book your travel within the next three days to beat the price hike".

Or has there been now a further last-minute change?

 

[alistairlees]

I had understood this March date to be the case generally - is it only for the flexible ticket types, or some other subset, or does it apply for all prices?

I've asked because the wording used in an email I've received from Trainsplit today is "fares will be increasing starting 5th February" and "book your travel within the next three days to beat the price hike".

Or has there been now a further last-minute change?

I think they just got it wrong. I have not seen any advice published since 22nd December, which was explicit that new fares must not be visible until 5th March (they are not in the data until later this month anyway).

 

[Wallsendmag]

I had understood this March date to be the case generally - is it only for the flexible ticket types, or some other subset, or does it apply for all prices?

I've asked because the wording used in an email I've received from Trainsplit today is "fares will be increasing starting 5th February" and "book your travel within the next three days to beat the price hike".

Or has there been now a further last-minute change?

I really hope they don't increase their prices on the 5th.